Post by kaan55

Posted: 6/11/2017 4:30 PM

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Josephandsonicteam124

Joined: 2/16/2015
Posts: 26

Also hey kaan it me Josephandsonicteam

Posted: 6/11/2017 5:06 PM

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Evil_3D

Editor, Experienced player (587)

Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina

let me check, in what need help exactly? Im confused the start looks solid Edit: I do it a part of the begining, maybe this help you: GMV

You can see more TASes on my youtube channel

Posted: 6/11/2017 7:01 PM

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TheYogWog

Editor, Active player (380)

Joined: 7/13/2013
Posts: 138

kaan55 wrote:

1) You'd have to get Sonic's signpost monitors first because terrain completely blocks off that area in Act 2. Ideally you'd want to bring Knuckles' bosses up there in Act 1 but I couldn't find a way to get them out of their boss boundaries.

Ah, well that sounds like a damning... a pretty damning fact.

kaan55 wrote:

2) The signpost monitor objects gets deloaded in Act 2 if you get too far away from them. The reason this doesn't happen in ICZ is because those objects are a part of the Act 2 map.

Ohhhh, yeah, I see.

kaan55 wrote:

Also here's a fun fact about the signpost monitors in ICZ. It's theoretically possible to collect them indefinitely by continuously reloading them and then dropping the signpost on them over and over. But of course we won't be doing that in a run like this.

How to reload them...? Also, here's something to consider when routing SOZ1, that I wanted to make sure you're aware of in case you weren't already (it's a kind of obscure piece of info I remember listed as a side note in one of MarzoJr's texts): see the blue hill with four rings on it? When Sonic has a fire shield, he can roll-jump and fall through it, or any other such hill exactly like that one in SOZ only. I think this method will be necessary to get the rings in the pictured KTE area. To get in, camera glitch by dashing off the ledge on the other side (from the left, not shown); to get out, use the flame dash glitch. Luckily, there's a fire shield left of the door. Again, like WST said, and like I've said before, it's like the devs somehow knew ahead of time that we would need this someday. Prophetic level design...

Knuckles does, what Sonican't.

Posted: 6/11/2017 8:04 PM

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kaan55

Banned User

Joined: 6/7/2017
Posts: 420
Location: Somewhere

Josephandsonicteam124 wrote:

Also hey kaan

Hello Joseph

TheYogWog wrote:

How to reload them...?

Probably should've elaborated on this more. You just go far enough away to deload them and then go back to reload them which puts them back into their collectible state. I might make a video on this after I finish Sandopolis 1. I actually found a way to get in and out of that KTE area without the need for a shield. You just double spindash through the right barriers to get in and then double spindash through the left barriers to get out. Although your method allows you to get out from a different spot so maybe it will be useful depending on the route.

Posted: 6/13/2017 7:27 PM

Post subject: New glitch for turning blue spheres into rings

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joojamoi

Player (100)

Joined: 12/29/2009
Posts: 10

I figured out a glitch in blue sphere stages that it's possible to turn blue spheres into rings without surrounding them completely with red spheres. This can be done with any 3x4 or larger formation of blue spheres but practically it's useful with most 4x4 or larger formations. Stages that can be improved with this glitch include at least S3 stages 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and S3&K stages 1, 3 and 7. The most notable improvement will be in 4th S3 special stage where the large formation of blue spheres can be turned into rings by collecting only 11 spheres, making it nearly 5 seconds faster than conventional way. Time saves on other stages range from a couple of frames to a few seconds. It does not matter from which direction the last sphere is collected so in these images it's collected from the angle that gives best view:

Huge thanks to mike89 (mike89sda) for showing this variation of this glitch in his stream which made me research this subject quite a bit more:

Below are ascii representations of the glitch in case the images will be removed in the future. Legend: X = red sphere . = blue sphere o = bumper # = blue sphere, collect this next to turn all remaining touching blue spheres into rings. There are several ways to trigger the glitch. First main method is to turn 3x3 area completely red and then collect 2 adjacent blue spheres from a corner:

.#X
XXX
XXX
XXX

This also works if there are more touching blue spheres remaining, for example all in the following formation will turn into rings:

.....
...#X
..XXX
..XXX
..XXX

The centermost sphere can even be a bumper:

..#X.
.XXX.
.XoX.
.XXX.
.....

Second main method is to surround an area of blue spheres but leave one corner "open" (the blue spheres in the middle must not form a rectangle because then only that rectangle would turn into rings and not the outside area):

.XXX
#X.X
X..X
XXXX

Or more blues remaining in the middle and/or outside (also works if there are any bumpers in the middle):

..XXX
.#X.X
.X..X
.X..X
.XXXX

Posted: 6/13/2017 7:43 PM

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joojamoi

Player (100)

Joined: 12/29/2009
Posts: 10

Slightly adjusted route to take advantage of the glitch and save a few frames on the first special stage: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/995096064/S3%20special%201%20improved.gmv Jumps are marked with gray

Posted: 6/14/2017 6:13 AM

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WST

She/Her

Active player (490)

Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM

Finally someone decided to dig into it instead of copy-pasting 10+ year old input…

S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)

Posted: 6/14/2017 9:10 AM

Post subject: Re: Sandopolis 1 route

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Evil_3D

Editor, Experienced player (587)

Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina

kaan55 wrote:

Well here's my Sandopolis 1 route in the form of a tas.

wow that was fast, amazingly done good job! Here is my ICZ 2 TAS Link to video

You can see more TASes on my youtube channel

Posted: 6/14/2017 9:23 PM

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kaan55

Banned User

Joined: 6/7/2017
Posts: 420
Location: Somewhere

Thanks man :) Even though the map did look intimidating at first, it didn't actually didn't take long to route. Tasing the level itself wasn't too difficult either. The part where I had to get slope glitch Tails to the wall rings in an optimal way was kind of a pain though.

Evil_3D wrote:

Here is my ICZ 2 TAS

You never cease to amaze me Evil. Keep up the good work. So if the timer never froze from you killing Knuckles' boss. Would the time be 3:26?

Posted: 6/14/2017 11:10 PM
(Edited: 7/15/2017 6:20 AM)

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kaan55

Banned User

Joined: 6/7/2017
Posts: 420
Location: Somewhere

I was right. You can infinitely collect the signpost monitors in Icecap. I know ring attacks avoid using infinite ring exploits so it's kind of a pointless trick, but I wanted to share it anyways for documentation purposes. Link to video

Posted: 6/15/2017 1:31 AM

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Paused

Joined: 5/9/2005
Posts: 752

Cool find Kaan. Can't tell you how happy it make me you guys are not only finding new tech in this well documented game, but combining together as a group to push it too its limits even more. Makes me smile with the cooperative spirit going on. edit; oh and that tech joojamoi is fantastic too. Slipped my mind as I had seen you post it on one of mikes twitch chats. Always meant to get around to relaying the info here.... but even better you've got an account here yourself!

Posted: 6/15/2017 7:11 PM

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joojamoi

Player (100)

Joined: 12/29/2009
Posts: 10

Here are a few more improvements on S3 specia stages 2, 6 and 7. All input before the improved parts on the special stages are exactly the same as in marzojr's published movie. Special stage maps are taken from Sonic Retro wiki. S3 special stage 2: 100 frame improvement by adjusting the route at 2nd 3x4 and then using the glitch at 5x5: Jumps over blue spheres are denoted with gray and backwards sections with orange.

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/644260335/S3%20special%202%20improved.gmv Special stage 2 begins around frame 7800. S3 special stage 6: 143 frame (140 + 3 on ring bonus) improvement by completely new route. The new route is about 20% longer than the current TAS (about 211 paces vs 174 paces) but takes 38 turns less (46 vs 84) and takes most of the turns before running speed goes up.

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1705518723/S3%20special%206%20improved.gmv Special stage 6 begins around frame 40000. S3 special stage 7: 21 frame improvement by turning on a red sphere near the end. I wonder if this strategy is prone to desyncs though delaying the movie start by one frame still synced perfectly. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/562531663/S3%20special%207%20improved.gmv Special stage 7 begins around frame 48600.

Posted: 6/15/2017 8:33 PM

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kaan55

Banned User

Joined: 6/7/2017
Posts: 420
Location: Somewhere

joojamoi wrote:

All input before the improved parts on the special stages are exactly the same as in marzojr's published movie.

Wait I'm confused. Are you trying to improve that run or are you just showing off new special stage routes?

Posted: 6/15/2017 8:57 PM

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joojamoi

Player (100)

Joined: 12/29/2009
Posts: 10

Just trying to find new routes on special stages. That run just has input ready to reach all the special stages.

Posted: 6/15/2017 9:11 PM

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kaan55

Banned User

Joined: 6/7/2017
Posts: 420
Location: Somewhere

joojamoi wrote:

Just trying to find new routes on special stages. That run just has input ready to reach all the special stages.

You don't need the run. You can get to them all from level select by altering the sound test. If I remember correctly you do special stage 1 for S3 stages and special stage 2 for S&K stages.

Posted: 6/17/2017 3:36 PM

Post subject: Angel Island Knuckles' rings

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kaan55

Banned User

Joined: 6/7/2017
Posts: 420
Location: Somewhere

So I have some good news and some bad news. the good news is I found a way to get some of Knuckles' rings in AIZ. The bad news is you'll have to redo act 2 (and maybe a little bit of act 1) and then input splice the rest of the run in. As for actually getting the rings. I'm not done experimenting yet. I've already managed to get 8 from Knuckles' start, but I feel like I could get much more with my newfound knowledge of the game.

Posted: 6/17/2017 6:30 PM

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TheYogWog

Editor, Active player (380)

Joined: 7/13/2013
Posts: 138

Good and bad news, indeed. I'm impressed you were able to do this, and I'm curious to find out how. And I wonder if input splicing will work in this instance. It usually doesn't, apparently. On a different note, I've gotta say, really nice route through Sandopolis. It surprised me when you went through the wall on the lowest path.

Knuckles does, what Sonican't.

Posted: 6/17/2017 7:10 PM

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kaan55

Banned User

Joined: 6/7/2017
Posts: 420
Location: Somewhere

Thanks man :) After some testing in debug mode I found that I can in theory get Tails to grab 26 of the rings. I just have to try get them without debug mode which could take me awhile. We can input splice from the very beginning of Hydrocity 1 onwards. It seems doable to me because of the fixed nature of spawning in a level. In any case I would suggest backing up the gmv as it is right now in case something goes wrong. I mean this is like 2 months of work we're talking about here (btw I'm sorry in advance about this Evil). Went through the wall on the lowest path? Are you referring to the stair clip? I knew that it was possible because there's an area in act 2 with similar terrain where a stair clip is possible.

Posted: 6/17/2017 7:37 PM
(Edited: 6/20/2017 5:18 PM)

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Josephandsonicteam124

Joined: 2/16/2015
Posts: 26

hello guys here a TAS I made of 100% with S+T but I need help on act 1 of Angel Island so if you want you guys can help me here the gmv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1683761434/Sonic%20and%20Knuckles%20%26%20Sonic%203%20%28W%29%20%5B%21%5D%20100%25%20S%2BT%20WIP%201.gmv .

Posted: 6/17/2017 7:55 PM

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Evil_3D

Editor, Experienced player (587)

Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 581
Location: Argentina

I can copy the input from HCZ, The bad side is that some zones are not very friendly copying input I will have to check it when you finish you search

You can see more TASes on my youtube channel

Posted: 6/17/2017 10:39 PM
(Edited: 6/18/2017 6:53 AM)

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kaan55

Banned User

Joined: 6/7/2017
Posts: 420
Location: Somewhere

Link to video the gmv http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=1371726 I managed to get 25 of the 26 mentioned rings. I couldn't get the 26th one because the glitch for it wouldn't cooperate. The first half of the video is from Tails' perspective, the second half is from Sonic's perspective, and then I show off the 26th ring at the very end with debug enabled. You could in theory get 8 more rings by using the medium sized rock that's to the left of the flipping bridge to make Tails clip through the ground, but the collision for it doesn't work quite like the other rocks. It seems to eject Tails left or right no matter how close to the center he is. Anyways I think that's all the Knuckles rings Sonic can get but I'm going to double check to make sure. EDIT: Yeah I couldn't get any more rings. Maybe you should give it a shot.

Posted: 6/17/2017 11:38 PM

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kaan55

Banned User

Joined: 6/7/2017
Posts: 420
Location: Somewhere

Evil_3D wrote:

I can copy the input from HCZ, The bad side is that some zones are not very friendly copying input

Yeah I found that out the hard way when I tased MHZ2. Although I kinda doubt you'll have those issues if you try to copy input from the very beginning of a zone. Tell you what. Why don't you give me the gmv with the current AIZ run and then one with the new AIZ run when you finish it. I think I have an idea on how I can put your new AI run together with the other levels you already did with input splicing.

Posted: 6/18/2017 4:51 AM
(Edited: 6/18/2017 4:27 PM)

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kaan55

Banned User

Joined: 6/7/2017
Posts: 420
Location: Somewhere

Whoops I missed one. Link to video Updated gmv http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=1371757 Okay now I think I got all the Knuckles rings Sonic can get. I'd suggest looking into it yourself just to be safe though.

Posted: 6/18/2017 12:37 PM

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