Post by kaan55

Posted: 7/5/2017 8:23 PM

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Evil_3D

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Joined: 10/22/2016
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Location: Argentina

Just before starting MGZ2 I realized that 4 frames were lost in the synchronization process compared to the original movie, I will start at the point where S + T got pushed by the red spring, here is where the first frame wast lost, I will try to keep frames or even save more if is possible

You can see more TASes on my youtube channel

Posted: 7/5/2017 10:13 PM

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kaan55

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Oh yeah I forgot to tell you about that. I didn't notice this until I got to the point where I last stopped. I have no idea how I lost those frames. Sorry about that.

Posted: 7/6/2017 5:29 PM

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Josephandsonicteam124

Joined: 2/16/2015
Posts: 26

hello I tried to finish act of hydrocity zone with the knuckles ring attack me and Evil are working but I got mad but at the end I found A glitch but it sadly useless here the gmv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1601184298/Evil_3D%20%26%20Joseph-S3K-Knuckles-ringattack%20%281%29.gmv I hope if Evil is not busy he can maybe help or when he done with his S+T ring attack he can try to help with this.

Posted: 7/8/2017 9:57 AM

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Evil_3D

Editor, Experienced player (575)

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I will take a vacations from TASting, I'm a little übercharged about this, I need to relax a little before continue, I hope you guys understand

You can see more TASes on my youtube channel

Posted: 7/8/2017 9:28 PM

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kaan55

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Evil_3D wrote:

I will take a vacations from TASting, I'm a little übercharged about this, I need to relax a little before continue, I hope you guys understand

It's fine. I know how exhausting making this tas is. If anything I'm surprised that you didn't decide to take a vacation sooner. Take all the time you need. I'm also taking a break. Due to some events I won't be able to access the game until the end of summer which means the only thing I'll be able to do is talk here.

Posted: 7/10/2017 12:58 AM

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Paused

Joined: 5/9/2005
Posts: 748

Yeah, don't sweat it Evil3D; you don't have a deadline for handing in this project! It's a mentally exhausting hobby at times; but best to keep it as a hobby rather than 'work' though. I'm sure the tread will still be here when you're refreshed!

Posted: 7/10/2017 3:10 PM

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Evil_3D

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Joined: 10/22/2016
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Thanks, maybe I will paused the progress intul August for specifically rest from this TAS, meanwhile I can do other sonic runs for fun

You can see more TASes on my youtube channel

Posted: 7/12/2017 6:51 PM
(Edited: 7/15/2017 1:59 AM)

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kaan55

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Evil_3D wrote:

Thanks, maybe I will paused the progress intul August for specifically rest from this TAS, meanwhile I can do other sonic runs for fun

Good idea. And I'll... just relax for the rest summer I guess. I'm out of country so I don't have a computer to play any Sonic games in. Plus this tas was starting to wear me out too. Once I can access the game again I might consider doing a testrun of another level (which will likely be Death Egg 2).

Posted: 7/14/2017 1:44 PM

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BigBoct

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Joined: 8/9/2007
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Yeah, there's no rush. I'm looking forward to the end result, but I'm a patient man. I can wait. :)

Previous Name: boct1584

Posted: 7/20/2017 3:03 PM

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Evil_3D

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I was thinking about the resync process of the movie, seeing the main problem is the frame rules of the objects are different, is possible reseting the frame rules manipulating singpost time or capsules hits? So that they return to be equal to the previous movie I'm not sure how is the frame rule loop of the balloons and gravitation things in CNZ, but is possible this theory? I need some expert confirmation

You can see more TASes on my youtube channel

Posted: 7/20/2017 4:54 PM

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marzojr

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Yes, hitting the signpost to add delays (or jumping when the signpost is about to finish spinning to delay it) can alter the positions of objects; in the worst case, you may need to waste que a bit of time there, about as much time as you have gained. The balloons require manipulating luck; this means seeing what was the rng seed at the start of the second act before the improvements and manipulating the signpost sparkles with well timed pauses to make it match (or find another rng seed which gives equivalent behavior). Bouncing the signpost has the disadvantage that it causes additional sparkles to be generated, which will affect the balloon positions.

Marzo Junior

Posted: 7/20/2017 11:16 PM

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Evil_3D

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Thanks marzo, I will see what I can do soon

You can see more TASes on my youtube channel

Posted: 7/21/2017 6:30 AM

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kaan55

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I think the reason MGZ2 desynced is because you had to delay your inputs by a frame. You may be able to get it to sync again if you compensate by saving a frame somewhere in act 1. EDIT: I just realized that this may be difficult to pull off due to the precise starting positions required to get act 2 to sync. This is something you could try nonetheless. Also let's hope that we won't have to make the rng manipulation too noticeable.

Posted: 7/22/2017 8:20 AM

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Evil_3D

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kaan55 wrote:

I think the reason MGZ2 desynced is because you had to delay your inputs by a frame. You may be able to get it to sync again if you compensate by saving a frame somewhere in act 1.

Yes, is strange because I don't lost/gain frames in ACT 1, maybe the score tally at the end delayed 1+ frame for that reason ACT 2 inputs desync, but well Im planning to redo the rest of MGZ2 manually btw

You can see more TASes on my youtube channel

Posted: 7/22/2017 11:32 AM
(Edited: 7/23/2017 6:19 AM)

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kaan55

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Yeah there must be some inconsistencies with the act 1 to act 2 transition because something similar happened with hydrocity that required me to delay the inputs by a frame. Honestly redoing MGZ2 probably is easiest way you can finish it. I'm gonna rewatch your CNZ runs to observe the balloons. There's a chance that we may be able to work with the rng we get and resync a good chunk of the zone.

Posted: 7/23/2017 6:05 AM

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WST

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kaan55 wrote:

EDIT: I just realized that this may be difficult to pull off due to the precise starting positions required to get act 2 to sync. This is something you could try nonetheless.

Had a similar problem when resyncing Sandopolis zone in my Amy@S3K currently published TAS, you can notice some weird moves between act1 and act2, which actually are subpixel alignment. I managed to make act 2 to sync almost to the end (which was enough for me) by bringing the X subpixel value to exactly the same as before, and Y subpixels to be +/- 2. Anyway, now I know new shortcuts for both Sandopolis acts, so, this run is on my TODO list to improve it.

S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)

Posted: 7/24/2017 10:39 AM

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kaan55

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I was wondering why you kept inching towards the right in that tas. Good luck with the new run. I rewatched the both CNZ acts. We might be able to work with the balloons in act 1 unless we get extremely unlucky, but the ones in act 2 will more than likely cause desyncs if they aren't in the same position. I suppose we'll worry about this when we finish MGZ2.

Posted: 7/24/2017 2:03 PM

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marzojr

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The first act balloons will only cause issues if there was a route change in that act; the rng seed is reset on every zone, whenever you due and resign, and whenever you enter a special or bonus stage. It is only act transitions which cause problems with the rng.

Marzo Junior

Posted: 7/25/2017 6:17 AM

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marzojr

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I have seen those as well; but I never traced through the code to find exactly what was responsible for it, now that I think about it. Will add to my to-do list of things to figure out.

Marzo Junior

Posted: 7/26/2017 4:40 AM

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Evil_3D

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Interesting, in theory ACTs 1 will not desync. this sounds great to me and less weigh in my back, seeing the score table for some reason consumes +1 frame is possible doing 1 frame pause in a certain point? I mean before or after the signpost fall or before the transition begins to keep ACT 2 objects in sync? or saving 1 frame in ACT 1?

You can see more TASes on my youtube channel

Posted: 7/26/2017 6:51 AM

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kaan55

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Now that I think about it those inconsistent score tallies was the only thing that's truly caused us problems. Other than that the game has actually been pretty generous with letting the run sync. Evil you may not have to do anything with CNZ or ICZ at all. Beating MGZ2 on a specific frame might get both of those zones to sync all the way through.

Posted: 7/26/2017 8:45 AM

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marzojr

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Acts 1 [I]can[/I] desynch; it is rarer than act 2 desynchs, but it can happen. Usually, it is due to one of the following:

Lag differences when loading level.
Differences in the number of frames since power-on (this can be used as a source of pseudo-randomness). This can cause issues with the rng in some cases, because some objects only use the rng on some frames, and can also cause differences in lag when you lose rings (because rings only check terrain collision on some frames bad on when they were spawned and where in object RAM they are).

The first acts are otherwise generally sync stable.

Marzo Junior

Posted: 7/26/2017 5:38 PM

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TheYogWog

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This is off-topic, but since this is the only Sonic forum I go to I wanted to ask if anyone here would like to help me with something. I'm looking for someone who would be able to provide me with about 15 minutes, tops, of quality video footage of certain, very basic Sonic 3 gameplay for a level design analysis video I'm wanting to make. This is only a one-time request for now, depending on how the final video turns out there may be the opportunity to help out in this and possibly other ways on a recurring basis. And if I do end up going public with the video, of course I would credit you for your part. So, please PM me if interested.

Knuckles does, what Sonican't.

Posted: 7/27/2017 11:37 AM
(Edited: 7/27/2017 12:08 PM)

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HDL

Joined: 11/24/2012
Posts: 8

Hey all, I recently returned to speed runs and have been noticing inconsistencies with the slope glitch in Ice Cap, specifically with Knuckles. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me why that is. What I've gathered so far is that Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles all have slightly different 3 frame windows for it, and that vertical subpixels do not change once on the platform, however there's something about doing it with Knuckles that makes it fail significantly more often. I've tried manipulating all kinds of subpixel values including grabbing the wall above the platform and can't find a clear cause or a solution. What typically happens when it fails is that Knuckles will brush up against the object as he usually does, but instead of getting pushed upwards he'll just stay pushing it. The platform will also break the wall 2 frames earlier, though it appears to be in the exact same position every time. The position Knuckles himself needs is 17781, and sometimes he'll overshoot that but it will work anyway. The only thought I had was perhaps variance with the objects themselves, but I haven't been able to confirm. Anyone know what's going on here?