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Astal is a 2D platformer that is widely viewed as being the best looking 2D game on the Saturn. In this game you control a beast named Astal and must save your sister and the world, but predominantly the latter.
  • Aims for fastest time
  • One person controls 2 players
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Manipulates luck
  • Abuses programming errors
It took a couple of weeks of research. Initially I played the game on the actual system; then watched speedrun videos of it and then asked the current world record holder Chaos42666 for advice. Most of the difficulty at the start came from understanding how to use the bird and wondering if it could save any meaningful amount of time outwith a few boss battles. Evidently I completely underestimated it's usefulness, as it did the bulk of the work throughout the game.
Normally the game is one player and the player can use various bird specials by filling up karma meter, and refilling it by destroying enemies. However, in two player mode you don't have access to it, which is slower at parts of the game. At the start of the level the game starts in one player mode and player two must press any button to assume control. If the bird dies then Astal loses a life must restart the level.
Initially, I was going to use the Japanese version, due to having more health. Thus allowing more damage to be taken, but close observation showed a TAS wouldn't need the extra health. I was told the North American version of the game had shorter dialogue, but took longer to switch from 2p to 1p mode. Which amounted to 30 seconds as opposed to 5 seconds in the Japanese version. The one spot this could have been useful in was the fire boss fight. As landing the final two hits would have been much faster in 1p mode, as it would have allowed me to take advantage of the screen filling special.
The bird moves faster than Astal as a result of it's beak dash attack. It can be used to stun enemies, allowing Astal to run harmlessly passed them. It can also slap and peck enemies into submission, and finally it has a beak buster attack, which is game breaking to put it mildly. By holding down the C button, can charge up an attack which gives priority over everything in the game and allows you to reach breakneck speeds. The downside of using the attack is that it takes 3 seconds to charge up and you can't move while doing it.
The last boss was by far the hardest part of the game. It has no pattern to what it does. So I had to do a bunch of random stuff to produce preferable outcomes. It also moves very quickly, which makes it difficult to land hits even with the advantage of tool-assistance. However, the game goes glitchy whenever Girado attempts to summon his crystal dragon. Whether it's caused by the plugin I'm using or a result of the emulator I don't know, but hopefully someone will set the record straight on it.

Useful Memory Addresses

OC7A18 - X-Pixel Subposition
0C779C - Y-Pixel Subposition
0C77A0 - Run
0C77E2 - Jump Flag
0C77A6 - Peak Jump
0C7796 - Ground Flag
0C77A4 - Y-Speed
I wasn't able to find the X-Speed which was most annoying

feos: Rejecting for using a strat in the first boss fight that loses time to the RTA, see the thread for all the details.
feos: I used to treat "losing to existing records, especially human ones" as an optimization flaw that can apply to individual parts of the run, not just the entire thing. Over the years we agreed that an established record means a complete run that a submission has to beat or at least match. If it's slower in some segments, the question is whether or not it's sloppy overall. Unrejecting. It'd be ideal if another judge takes a look, and I have a lot claimed at the moment anyway.

Memory: Claiming for judging.
Memory: User is banned so this is being sent back to rejected.


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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #5619: Mitjitsu's Saturn Astal in 20:29.92
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I know that re-record count isn't a good factor to know if an run is optimized, but I find count is low to say use luck manipulation and abuses programming errors. What are this programming errors? I find that it lack entertaining for 2 players execution! Maybe that is not possible to make better to have more entertainment?
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There is certain methods you can use to cut down on the amount of rerecords you need to use, and I'm proficient at TASing 2p games as a result of experience gained from doing it over the years. The programming errors were subtle. One being on the Behemoth fight; the other being on the crystal pillars in the diamond palace level. The luck manipulation is in the volcano level in relation to the falling rocks; the bird boss fight; Geist and the final boss. The game is mostly hold right for the win as a result of the bird being able to clear the path of enemies for you. It's also easy to find the first frame of opportunity to land hits on the bosses. Not to mention the game has various amounts of idle time. Which makes the rerecord count make perfect sense for such a game.
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Mitjitsu wrote:
There is certain methods you can use to cut down on the amount of rer...
OK, thank to have clarify this and answer. I re-watch this, after my job.
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I see you did researches and put efforts in this, so I'm voting Yes despite the relative lack of tricks and glitches.
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I will always wonder how it is that Clockwork Knight got a sequel, while this game couldn't even get its name on the spine of its own box.
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PCachu wrote:
I will always wonder how it is that Clockwork Knight got a sequel, while this game couldn't even get its name on the spine of its own box.
It was an early Saturn release that was intended to demonstrate the systems 2D and sound capabilities. However, the game got swept under the carpet due to gamer's changing tastes at the time.
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Watched until The Deep Forest. Even thought the levels looks better than in the RTA, your fight with the first boss takes 3 seconds more than in the RTA. We can't publish runs that fail to beat unassisted records.
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feos wrote:
Watched until The Deep Forest. Even thought the levels looks better than in the RTA, your fight with the first boss takes 3 seconds more than in the RTA. We can't publish runs that fail to beat unassisted records.
Is there an explainable reason for not beating RTA? I have not watched either a run or the TAS and I have zero familiarity with the game so I don't know.
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and this is why you don't mess with psychotics birds... game is beautiful but i don't know anything about the mechanics but as usal, vaultable until beaten
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Habreno wrote:
Is there an explainable reason for not beating RTA? I have not watched either a run or the TAS and I have zero familiarity with the game so I don't know.
I haven't precisely compared why, but it seems the difference is in a better boss pattern. Also, in the RTA he's beaten with only fists, dunno if it makes the difference (still 6 hits).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Don't forget feos, I'm using the North American version of the game, while speedrunners favour the Japanese version due to having more health. So there could differences between the games that I'm not aware of. As for the first boss fight, I wasn't aware Chaos42666 had a faster run on his Twitch account. Since I was using his most recent upload on YouTube as a guide, which mine happened to be 5 seconds faster than. As you pointed out it seems the WR run gets a better pattern. However, I was unaware the boss even had different patterns till you pointed it out.
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Notice the difference in how the boss moves in the second half of the fight in your run and in the older run by Chaos42666, which was also done on the USA version. In the latter, the boss moves the same as in the Japanese version WRs, and probably that's what makes the main difference. Just compare the fight precisely. The key point here is that the difference in the boss fight is not due to the region difference.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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So what's your plan on this, Mitjitsu?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Sega Saturn has very interesting games, yes vote here
You can see more TASes on my youtube channel
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feos wrote:
So what's your plan on this, Mitjitsu?
I'll have to look into it, and probably have to redo the other boss battles. Given they'd likely desync.
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Saved 185 frames by using fists in that fight. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/41138304929358473
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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