Posted: 11/19/2017 9:03 PM
Post subject: Bizhawk vs LSNES ...which is better for SNES, GB, GBC, SGB ?
Quote
Danfun64
He/Him
Joined: 7/25/2007
Posts: 50
I'm kind of confused by the situation for BizHawk and LSNES. Is one preferred over the other for SNES, GB, GBC, and/or SGB games? BizHawk apparently uses BSNES v87 and Gambatte SVN r344 while lsnes rr2-B23 (most recent compiled build) uses BSNES v85 and Gambatte r527? Is that correct? What about the trunk for lsnes? edit: Also, why does SRAM not seem to work with LSNES?
Posted: 11/19/2017 10:54 PM
Quote
Amaraticando
It/Its
Editor, Player (159)
Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 673
Location: Brazil
TAS of 2015 SNES TAS of 2015
I'd pick lsnes as more reliable, if you wanna verify your movie on console, at least for SNES/SBG. BizHawk's movies from an earlier version might not work in recent ones, due to improvements. The new Waterbox concept might have fixed most problem with bsnes core, but it's yet to be verified whether both emulators produce identical outputs with the same input. Lsnes can be compiled to use bsnes v87 too, but most patches were done for v85, including a recent one that allows new kinds of arbitrary code execution. lsnes "beta" is much better than the delta version, this name is kinda obsolete. About the SRAM, the interface is not obvious... While creating a new movie (File > New > Movie), you have to pick the SRM file.
Posted: 11/19/2017 11:06 PM
Quote
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3573)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
TASer of 2010 NES TASer of 2010 DS TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 NES TASer of 2008 NES TAS of 2008 Funny TAS of 2008 TASer of 2007 NES TASer of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
For SNES, GB, GBC neither is preferred over the other. There aren't meaningful differences between the versions of bsnes and gambatte used. SGB is a more interesting situation as bizhawk will use sameboy for this as opposed to a combination of bsnes+gambatte. As for which is more accurate, that isn't necessarily clear to me but I'd lean towards sameboy. In the near future BizHawk will have a GBHawk core that should be unambiguously superior to gambatte. Alyosha is making rather impressive progress on that core so I'd expect it to be sooner rather than later. At that point I would prefer to see GB/GBC games with BizHawk (and the GBHawk core).
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Posted: 11/20/2017 7:38 PM
Quote
Danfun64
He/Him
Joined: 7/25/2007
Posts: 50
How long is LSNES going to be around before it's depreciated, if that's the plan? Also, anybody have any compiled git builds of LSNES? Not that I plan on doing so, but are git builds considered acceptable for submissions?
Posted: 11/20/2017 8:06 PM
Quote
feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
Amaraticando wrote:
The new Waterbox concept might have fixed most problem with bsnes core, but it's yet to be verified whether both emulators produce identical outputs with the same input.
Waterbox doesn't touch input, only savestates, if I get it right.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 11/21/2017 2:12 PM
Quote
Amaraticando
It/Its
Editor, Player (159)
Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 673
Location: Brazil
TAS of 2015 SNES TAS of 2015
Danfun64 wrote:
How long is LSNES going to be around before it's depreciated, if that's the plan? Also, anybody have any compiled git builds of LSNES? Not that I plan on doing so, but are git builds considered acceptable for submissions?
I don't think there's a reason to ever ban lsnes. true has an up-to-date repository with windows binaries https://lsnes.truecontrol.org/
Waterbox doesn't touch input, only savestates, if I get it right.
Yes. But I noticed that movies pre-Waterbox desync under Waterbox, the later being much closer to lsnes timing.
Posted: 11/22/2017 5:56 AM
Quote
Danfun64
He/Him
Joined: 7/25/2007
Posts: 50
I guess I'm confused because BizHawk is apparently supposed to be the major all-in-one TASing emulator, yet you have LSNES which uses the same emulators as the former (different versions and lack of Same Boy for SGB aside)
Posted: 11/22/2017 1:12 PM
Quote
Amaraticando
It/Its
Editor, Player (159)
Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 673
Location: Brazil
TAS of 2015 SNES TAS of 2015
lsnes was made before BizHawk, at least before SNESHawk. Ilari wanted to support subframe input, subframe resets, hard resets, etc, stuff that is very hard to implement in a multi-system emulator like BizHawk, for some technical reason.
Posted: 11/22/2017 2:28 PM
Quote
feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
Also, lsnes works on linux, and bizhawk does not at all. Makes sense, as Ilari is a linux guy.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 11/22/2017 8:04 PM
Quote
Danfun64
He/Him
Joined: 7/25/2007
Posts: 50
Amaraticando wrote:
Ilari wanted to support subframe input, subframe resets, hard resets, etc, stuff that is very hard to implement in a multi-system emulator like BizHawk, for some technical reason.
So...that stuff isn't in BizHawks SNES and GB/SGB/GBC cores now?
Posted: 12/14/2017 11:53 PM
Quote
Danfun64
He/Him
Joined: 7/25/2007
Posts: 50
Umm... my question was never really answered...
Posted: 12/15/2017 12:31 AM
(Edited: 12/15/2017 3:21 AM)
Quote
Amaraticando
It/Its
Editor, Player (159)
Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 673
Location: Brazil
TAS of 2015 SNES TAS of 2015
Danfun64 wrote:
Umm... my question was never really answered...
The answer depends on what better is. If you wanna support for many controllers, different kinds of controllers (mouse, multitap, etc), support for subframes/hard resets, if you want to produce a console verification, or portability, then go with lsnes. If you wanna the favorite movie format of this site, the most maintained emulator, the fancy tools like TAStudio, or don't mind the small probability of your movie not working in version 2.5, then choose BizHawk.
Posted: 12/15/2017 1:25 AM
Quote
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3573)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
TASer of 2010 NES TASer of 2010 DS TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 NES TASer of 2008 NES TAS of 2008 Funny TAS of 2008 TASer of 2007 NES TASer of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
Amaraticando wrote:
If you wanna support for many controllers, different kinds of controllers (mouse, multitap, etc)
Your information is outdated, bizhawk supports all these now
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Posted: 12/15/2017 3:24 AM
Quote
Amaraticando
It/Its
Editor, Player (159)
Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 673
Location: Brazil
TAS of 2015 SNES TAS of 2015
Edited, adelikat. My final suggestion is: try both, pick the one that gives you better productivity. We ultimately care for good (and reliable) speedruns, the software that you use is secondary.