Thank you guys for your feedback. I guess we should go for the rings. I nearly forgot how fascinated our viewers got with ring attack tasses.
In that case let me spend more time with this. I need to see if I can grab more rings and find the fastest way to grab the 2 marked in Evil's 2nd screenshot. I might make an encode on them when I'm done.
This is gonna be kind of a pain to optimize though. We'll have to tas some of the slope glitch setups multiple times to make the best out of the platform cycles.
Thanks for the opinions guys, we will do AIZ2 with every possible rings, I need that Kaan do a testrun and see how will be the new AIZ 2 route, later I will try to optimize and check for improvements and try to save time.
When the movie got finished I will do a Encode of Sonic POV and Tails POV so that people who are not familiar with the game can see how Tails picks up off-camera rings and help them understand the movie
I'm nearly finished figuring out how to get the new rings. I just need to figure out the best way to go about collecting the 2 in the second screenshot because of the 2nd tunnel.
Evil can you see if you can grab the ring to the left in in Knuckles' 2nd loop? I'm having trouble getting the right trajectory for it and I'm beginning to doubt it's even possible to collect it.
I was thinking a Tails POV encode should be made alongside the Sonic POV. I bet a lot of viewers would be interested in seeing that. Plus they'll get to see all of his deaths in AIZ2 XD
EDIT: Can I have the gmv with the new AIZ1 run?
Evil can you see if you can grab the ring to the left in in Knuckles' 2nd loop? I'm having trouble getting the right trajectory for it and I'm beginning to doubt it's even possible to collect it.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM
That’s the truth about this game: everytime you TAS it, you find some HUGE improvements. It is ridiculously crazy. Compared with many other games, this one looks complex almost like real world.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Oh wow that is fast. It's actually going to save some time over the old run which is even better. Nice find.
Link to video
I think I'm done figuring out how to get these rings. Still a bit iffy on the 2 right after the the 2nd tunnel as I still have to go around it twice by backtracking through the top route. I also managed to get an 8th ring. The ring total should now be 335 with 42 Knuckles rings leftover.
I did also see potential for grabbing these 3 but they appear to be a few pixels too deep. You can try to get them if you like.
Well, I can say one thing for sure. Optimizing this level is gonna suck. Don't be surprised if it takes me weeks to finish.
Thats a nice start, seeing the 2 rings below the water switch "I think" is possible with a precise angle we can grab them at once (I tried to grab the rings using the loop rings setup but for some reason Tails respawns when Sonic enter in the tunnel), the group of rings in the Knuckles screen I was missed those, check if you can grab them, If is possible I think is possible grab 2 at once to.
But, if you have problems testing the angles you can do the testrun as you feel comfortable, I can try to improve the angles to try to save time later
I just wanted to chime in and echo what other users said. I've been watching this TAS progress, and it's really amazing so far. I think choosing to get the new rings was a good choice, and I really appreciate all the work you all put into this so far.
Yeah that's the annoying part about working with 2nd player slope glitch. Tails can despawn for the most absurd reasons and it's hard to predict at time. I do know what a few of them are. This can be prevented by keeping Tails onscreen.
1) Making the object Tails got slope glitch from completely deload.
2) Interacting with a tunnel object.
3) The pink plants?
4) Sometimes some misc stuff like killing a badnik or touching a collapsing bridge.
I have tried to get those 3 rings but I just can't seem to get enough speed for it. It does look possible because one of the rings we got is in a few pixels lower than these 3. I'll try to get them again when I'm making the testrun, but maybe you should give it a shot because there's no gaurentee I'll be able to do it.
I don't think Tails' can grab those 2 rings under the switch at once. He can only stay under the death boundary for a frame and his hitbox isn't wide enough to grab both rings in one frame.
Evil_3D wrote:
You know I probably should've checked your comment instead of WST's for the gmv. I just looked at the first Angel Island video and then assumed there was no gmv lol
WST wrote:
That’s the truth about this game: every time you TAS it, you find some HUGE improvements. It is ridiculously crazy. Compared with many other games, this one looks complex almost like real world.
Or in this case find ways to get more rings. That's what I love about this game though. It's so dynamic and ring attacks are my favorite category in this. They're fun to watch and to tas. There's enough leeway in them to where I can enjoy tasing it.
EDIT: whoops sorry about the duplicate posts.[/quote]
Interacting with the tunnel trigger with Sonic makes Tails despawns off-screen and I can't grab the rings too, maybe there are on some pixels under.
About AIZ2 how's is going?
I think the main problem we're having with those 3 rings is that the tiles above are too thin for us to build up enough speed. I'll try to get them again when I get there in the run.
I only started tasing AIZ2 recently so I only got the first 46 seconds done. It's going pretty smoothly. Although I'm still trying to work out how I should do everything after the 110th ring. See for yourself.
gmv
Also you may have noticed at frame 11045 that I still made Tails do the zip jump with ~4,096 speed. I can't seem to do it with ~8,192 speed without Tails despawning no matter what I try. Were you able to do that yourself?
Also you may have noticed at frame 11045 that I still made Tails do the zip jump with ~4,096 speed. I can't seem to do it with ~8,192 speed without Tails despawning no matter what I try. Were you able to do that yourself?
Thanks for finding that timesave. I'll definitely be able to make some use out of it. It looks easier to optimize too ^.^
Also I really hate this part of the level now. It's going to take me ages to figure out which order I should grab these rings because of the moving platform.
Tails generally depends whenever he is offscreen and the is a change in the code pointer (object id in S2) of the object he is standing on. This applies to slope glitch because the game considers him to be standing on something.
There is a bug in the check in S3&K: only the top half of the code pointer is checked. So Tails didn't always despawns when he should.
More specifically: word at $FFFFB042$FFFFB08C is the address of the object Tails is interacting with; the longword at the object's address is is code pointer. But since the check is bugged, it looks only at the word at the object's address.
The word at $FFFFF700 is the top word of the code pointer of the last object that Tails interacted with, according to his CPU control code. Every frame it is compared to the word mentioned in the previous paragraph. If Tails is onscreen, then the word at $FFFFF700 is updated; otherwise, Tails despawns.
Edit: fixed address.
Thanks for enlightening me. I kinda figured something was screwy with the code after found out that offscreen objects only makes Tails despawn under oddly specific conditions.
While I was experimenting with slope glitch in AIZ2 I noticed Tails sometimes got into his normal standing animation which by extension allowed him to spindash. Do you know why this happens? I can probably save time in the last waterfall section if I can figure out to manipulate this.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM
As far as I know (from TASing experience, not from the engine), it happens when there is an object below Tails, no matter how far below.
I also think there was a detailed explaination of this on the forum; but it will be hard to find, because it was posted many years ago.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
That is correct, and also applies to Sonic (or Knuckles, or 1P Tails): when the address at $FFFFB042 (player 1) or $FFFFB08C (player 2) correspond to an object whose x position and width include the corresponding character's x position, he is able to stand without balancing. The game does not check y position, so this allows characters affected by slope glitch to stand without balancing and spindash. However, most objects in S3&K don't load of they are too far away vertically.
By the way, I made a correction to my previous message, and the correction is mentioned in this post: I had previously gives the RAM address where the object Sonic is standing on, not the address for Tails.
Thanks for the helpful info and memory addresses. I definitely could not have figured this out on my own.
One thing I'll be doing for sure is have Tails spindash under the same platform he got slope glitch from. I do want to abuse this more but the object values are something I won't be able to manipulate with consistency so I'll just have to hope I get lucky.
The main reason I as asking is if Tails has the underwater physics glitch he can't get enough horizontal speed to do this.
Link to video
Here is the first 2:18 of AIZ2. I finally got all the rings before the first checkpoint. It doesn't actually look that boring which is nice. Do you think this looks good?
gmv
Thanks man. The physics of this game is complex but I figured out how to work with it over time :)
I'll finish the level. The rest should be pretty easy since most of it is going to be more or less the same as the old run.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM
I wonder if this run is going to get “uses death to save time” (as there is no “kills Tails to get rings”) tag, which you normally don’t even expect from a ring attack :)
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
I did also see potential for grabbing these 3 but they appear to be a few pixels too deep. You can try to get them if you like.
Well, I can say one thing for sure. Optimizing this level is gonna suck. Don't be surprised if it takes me weeks to finish.
