Post subject: Wing Commander
Joined: 6/4/2004
Posts: 284
So, here it is--TASVideos' second TAS of a PC game! ...or not, seeing as it would be a TAS of a port of a PC game. Anyway, I'm sure many of you are familiar with this game (or The Secret Missions, another port), and have fond memories of it, such as trying to get a clear shot at your enemy as your shields are down and the panic music is playing, gritting your teeth as you weave your way through an asteroid/mine field, or shooting down Maniac after he refuses to obey your commands again. So, here's the thing--there are three ways a run on this could be made: the "fast as possible" method, which involves ejecting one's way to victory; out of 18 possible missions, only four need to be played, and once on the Venice, it's impossible to fail (unless you die, which wouldn't make the run any faster). There's also the standard path, which involves completing enough missions successfully (possibly ejecting, if desired) to move along the chain to Venice, the final route (which can be played normally or ejected through, as already mentioned). Finally, there's the longest path, which involves failing a couple of mission sets in order to play through six more missions (and get more kills). In any case, a FAQ with the details can be found here. One more thing: Wing Commander has a fair amount of dialog detailing the story (Briefing, Debriefing, and Ceremony--Bar Chat is useless), so considering the row going on over Star Control 2, would those watching such a run prefer the dialog to be skimmed through fairly quickly (say, 3 seconds per chunk of text), or skipped entirely (leaving more time for space combat)?
Joined: 7/19/2006
Posts: 21
Location: San Francisco
Any reason not to TAS WC in Dosbox?
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
Yes, DosBox TASing is still in Beta. However, I definitely would like to see this game ran. EDIT: LOL 10 year old typos.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 6/4/2004
Posts: 284
Well, here's the first mission, to give folks an idea of a possible "view script" run. Critique on the flying is also welcome, of course.
MarbleousDave
He/Him
Player (13)
Joined: 9/12/2009
Posts: 1559
If I were to TAS this game, skip the briefings, and avoid asteroid fields as much as possible. Also, avoid the Rostov system at all costs.
MarbleousDave
He/Him
Player (13)
Joined: 9/12/2009
Posts: 1559
I submitted a run that gets to the Bad Ending as quickly as possible. Video encoded by Spikestuff (obviously got rejected for goal choice and not completing the game) I am working on a run that gets to the Good Ending. My progress so far: WIP 1 [Video] Enyo System WIP 2 [Video] McAuliffe System [part 1] I can't seem to hit those Krant class Kilrathi fighters. Help is appreciated WIP 3 - McAuliffe System [part 2] coming soon...
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
Looks wonderful! I'm excited about this run. Shame about the escort mission being so slow.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
MarbleousDave
He/Him
Player (13)
Joined: 9/12/2009
Posts: 1559
The "Bad Ending" route is for RTA only. For the "Good Ending", the Venice System must be reached. A max kills run requires failing a vital mission in two systems, requires going through Brimstone and Rostov systems. RTA can beat the game quicker by ejecting, but that takes away entertainment value. TASing all given missions without fail and without ejecting is the way to go, but an "All medals" run requires ejecting once, as ejecting for the first time gives you the Golden Sun medal. Wing Commander: The Secret Missions is another story as failing a vital mission leads to a bad ending no matter how far you go in the game.
DrD2k9
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2213)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1090
Location: US
In my opinion, I think a TAS of this game would be acceptable even if you ejected on all the missions that aren't vital to get the "Good Ending." It'd almost be akin to death-warping to progress to later stages. The key is to achieve the 'Good Ending' so that the game appears to be beaten.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
It might seem a bit unsatisfying though. Because you only need to complete 4/21 missions in order to get the good ending. This diagram is how the game decides how the game proceeds and whether or not you get the good ending (Enyo has 2 missions, Hell's Kitchen and Venice both have 4, all others have 3): So the fastest route for *just* the good ending is eject every mission until you reach Hubble's Star. Then play Hubble's Star missions 1 and 3 (eject from 2). And play Rostov missions 2 and 3 (eject from 1). Finally eject from all 4 missions in Venice. (This is probably faster than an alternate route where you win Port Hedland, because Port Hedland requires that you achieve every objective in order to win, so you have to play all three missions.) Considering the TAS has already gone to McAliffe, PikachuMan is probably intending on either an all metals or max kills route or just play through the game "as well as possible." Completing all objectives in the shortest amount of time on the route that naturally follows from completing all objectives.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
DrD2k9
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2213)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1090
Location: US
An "as well as possible" run wouldn't be vault eligible then; assuming the qualification for 'beating' the game is the good ending. It would have to yield moon quality response. If PikachuMan is pursuing this approach, I'd recommend he make a backup run which ejects everywhere possible while still yielding the good ending. In the event the 'as well as possible' run doesn't get moon level response, the shorter run could be submitted with full intention of going to vault. If the 'as well as possible run' does make moons, then the other run could still be submitted for vault publication.
MarbleousDave
He/Him
Player (13)
Joined: 9/12/2009
Posts: 1559
I really wanted to do a backup TAS for the fastest time, but this is way beyond my skill level. Is there anyone else who can take it on?
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
What about a max medals route? Only certain missions can give a medal, and you have to actually play the missions to get them. (And ejecting only gives you a medal the first time.) This might force an interesting route. This is (as far as I can tell) what medals are available. This means that the best route is to win every system except Kurasawa.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
MarbleousDave
He/Him
Player (13)
Joined: 9/12/2009
Posts: 1559
I am having trouble with the Krant fighters they are quite agile. Those capships have devastating firepower. There might be a visual bug in the bsnes core related to the hull status. It should flash more faintly the more damage to the hull. If anyone wants to help me handle those Krant fighters, download WIP 2 and append record at the end, after McAuliffe, end on password screen, upload WIP 3.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
PikachuMan, If the goal is just "Good Ending," why aren't you taking the fly only 4/21 missions route that goes through Hubble's Star and Rostov? Do you have some other goal in mind? I'm just trying to help you submit a run that will be accepted. And it seems like without a solid goal like "Max Medals" it'll be rejected like the "Bad Ending" run.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
MarbleousDave
He/Him
Player (13)
Joined: 9/12/2009
Posts: 1559
I am going for the good ending, possibly the fastest route, but I may need assistance
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
PikachuMan wrote:
I am going for the good ending, possibly the fastest route, but I may need assistance
Then you're way off route. You should immediately eject the first 11 missions, play 1, eject 1, play 1, eject 1, play 2, eject the last 4. Here's the RTA of this route: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHGDJW_0LVA EDIT: it seems this route plays Rostov 1 instead of ejecting, double check if it's possible to eject from Rostov 1. I'm pretty sure it is.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
MarbleousDave
He/Him
Player (13)
Joined: 9/12/2009
Posts: 1559
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
PikachuMan wrote:
I am going for the good ending, possibly the fastest route, but I may need assistance
Then you're way off route. You should immediately eject the first 11 missions, play 1, eject 1, play 1, eject 1, play 2, eject the last 4. Here's the RTA of this route: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHGDJW_0LVA EDIT: it seems this route plays Rostov 1 instead of ejecting, double check if it's possible to eject from Rostov 1. I'm pretty sure it is.
I attempted to do this, but I got destroyed by an enemy transport. Anyone else up to snuff on this route?
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
This means that the best route is to win every system except Kurasawa.
Hello past me. This is might be wrong. It looks like (provided that it is possible to lose both Gimle and Port Hedland while collecting all medals, which is questionable), that the best route is Enyo (1W) -> McAuliffe (2W) -> Gimle (2L) -> Brimstone (0L) -> Port Hedland (3L) -> Hubble's Star (2W) -> Rostov (3W) -> Venice (3) For a total of 16 medals plus the golden sun, which is one better than the route through Gimle, Kurasawa, and Rostov. Per a Gamefaqs walkthrough, your victory points are different from your medal points. Gimle should be possible to eject Gimle 2 to drop 10 victory points, but from here you need to drop one additional victory point somehow while still making it back with enough medal points. For Gimle 3, you can skip killing one of the Dralthi fighters (there are a total of 8 + Dakhath). It seems like 7 + Dakhath is enough to get the medal. So dropping that final victory point seems possible. Gimle 1 is somewhat less flexible. 10 points for escorting the Exeter, and 2 points for landing, there aren't any VPs here that you can drop and still have a chance of getting a medal, unless you can run out of fuel or something and still get the medal. Port Hedland on the other hand is super easy to fail, any single objective is enough to fail the system, and here is a video of a failure of Port Hedland 1 that still gets the medal. So with this, it seems that the 17 medal route is possible, at least on DOS.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.