Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Since the original series lacked a thread, I decided to start one.
If anyone is looking to TAS this, I just ran into a really odd bug. I placed a blocker right by a wall on a sloped terrain, and it seems now Lemmings are now able to pass through the blocker and the wall.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Joined: 6/9/2005
Posts: 171
Location: Southern California
Oof. My MS-DOS memories of crystal-clear square pixels are bruised and battered by that screenshot. :) I am not a fan of the filters for rounding off the edges!
That's a neat glitch, though! In that particular level, a TAS would hopefully employ two perfectly-timed Exploders (especially considering there is a later level on a higher difficulty which demands precisely that) and not need to utilize the Blocker glitch...
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
XkyRauh wrote:
That's a neat glitch, though! In that particular level, a TAS would hopefully employ two perfectly-timed Exploders (especially considering there is a later level on a higher difficulty which demands precisely that) and not need to utilize the Blocker glitch...
Indeed. However, this glitch can be used to create a unidirectional blocker, which I imagine can be useful in several levels.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
For those thinking about TASing this, as DOS via libTAS is now closer to possibility, here's some info:
Lemmings contains 120 levels, split into 4 segments.
Oh no! More Lemmings contains 100 levels, split into 5 segments.
Holiday Lemmings 1991 contains 4 levels, two of which are in ONML. A first TAS for this series might start here as it's short.
Holiday Lemmings 1992 contains 4 levels, all unique. A first TAS for this series might start here as it's short.
Holiday Lemmings 1993 contains 32 levels, split into 2 segments, all of which are also in 1994 version, so this game should be skipped if one wants to TAS a whole game instead of segment by segment.
Holiday Lemmings 1994 contains 64 levels, split into 4 segments, including the 32 levels from the 1993 version.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
For those thinking about TASing this, as DOS via libTAS is now closer to possibility, here's some info:
Lemmings contains 120 levels, split into 4 segments.
Oh no! More Lemmings contains 100 levels, split into 5 segments.
Holiday Lemmings 1991 contains 4 levels, two of which are in ONML. A first TAS for this series might start here as it's short.
Holiday Lemmings 1992 contains 4 levels, all unique. A first TAS for this series might start here as it's short.
Holiday Lemmings 1993 contains 32 levels, split into 2 segments, all of which are also in 1994 version, so this game should be skipped if one wants to TAS a whole game instead of segment by segment.
Holiday Lemmings 1994 contains 64 levels, split into 4 segments, including the 32 levels from the 1993 version.
Since I haven't watched the other Lemmings games, what an interesting information.
My homepage
--Currently not much motived for TASing as before...--
But I'm still working.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
The info is certainly helpful if you're wondering which of these to TAS if you're not intimately familiar with each one.
If people want to TAS segments independently, we can have 15 separate TASs. The smallest is 4 levels, the largest is 30 levels.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Joined: 6/9/2005
Posts: 171
Location: Southern California
I mean, so much of the Lemmings games is timing, a TAS would be entertaining (in my opinion) just because of the sheer last-moment-possible-yet-perfectly-timed executions. :) I'd be on pins and needles the entire time!!
Yes, in DOS L1, blockers can push lemmings through walls.
Reason: Lems enter the wall during normal walking. This is because they walk ahead first, and only then check for walls and turn accordingly. In the picture, they walk right-facing into the wall. They turn left-facing as part of the physics update during which they enter the wall, but stay in the wall. Then the blocker field turns them right-facing again (I forgot when exactly this happens, but it happens before the walker walks again on its next physics update.) On the next physics update, the walker again walks right-facing even though he is inside a wall, and turns left-facing again. Then the blocker field acts, etc., repeat.
Definition (pin): Each lemming's effective coordinate, a.k.a, the lemming's pin, is the pixel under the lemming's blue body and white feet, usually inside the floor. On most animations, the lemming's body is 2 pixels thick, and on most animations, the pin is under the left column of body pixels, independently of whether the lem faces left or right.
Definition (foot): A lemming's foot is the pixel immediately above his pin.
Restating walker physics in this language: The foot moves into a solid wall, then turns/falls/ascends.
Un-scientific interpretation: I consider it a misdesign that they put the pin into the floor below the foot, not into the foot itself. One would think that it makes no difference, you can formulate the physics either way exactly the same. But it's not the same psychologically: Several weird physical behaviors seem to follow from the programmer mentally tracking the pin, not the foot. E.g., it seems natural to program the pin to move along solid terrain and react to new terrain or air, whereas you wouldn't program the foot to walk into terrain in the first place.
-- Simon
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
SimonN wrote:
is the pixel under the lemming's blue body and white feet
Or red body.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
