Post by CoolHandMike

Posted: 4/12/2019 12:12 AM

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CoolHandMike

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Joined: 3/9/2019
Posts: 717

1. Is there a particular reason you keep adjusting your angle on the way rather than immediately?

There are a couple points where I do not do that well I think one is after killing Shadow. The problem is that Axel does not change angles gracefully. Today I tested the analogue and that does not seem to do anything. So if it is impossible to get the specific angle from far away I need to do it closer to the target or get it perfectly while Axel changes angles in slow increments like when he is moving slowly. On the other hand there are other instances when I do this deliberately. On Hard it is rare to be able to attack a car from head-on. Twister and Hammerhead seem to be the only ones I have done this successfully so far. So like the RTA players I attack from the side. At the last moments I may need to adjust slightly for better collision damage. Another instance is for Spectre. He is really hard to catch without using ice. Here he is also on a different height. If I just roll off the edge I will hit the wall only so I jump to land on him. Doing that is very specific especially if you want damage. Bizarrely many times I would do no damage or get hit with a missile the moment I landed on him and I would do no damage. I have to essentially perform a fake out just to catch Spectre here. He speeds away the moment it looks like you are gunning for him. Come to think of it some "angle adjusting" may actually be me inputting the Advanced Attack commands to do the Freeze Missile. Some of these inputs have Left and Right as part of the codes. Ice is Left, Right, Up. To get the game to recognize it you have to press each direction a minimum of three inputs with some buffer space surrounding the Advanced Attack input. Due to invisible lag may need to adjust this sometimes to get it to work and input a fourth later I suspect.

2. Is there a way to manipulate the enemies to converge on your location sooner so you can, say, kill two at a time (even if it takes slightly longer to engage them)?

Getting groups is something I am currently struggling with. I evaluated about 20 different layouts and the cars seem to be spread out across the level. Another problem is that I have been killing cars before they can group together. There seems to be some different car personalities. Heavier more aggressive cars seem to be more loners than others. At least so far in my testing here. I will certainly test if delaying engaging could result in better groups and faster overall kills.

Huh, I expected more from this game.

Also could you explain further by what you mean by expect more of this game? There will be more tactics used but bumping works amazingly. The damage is extremely high. Actually the damage seems to be the single most damaging thing in the game. With some prep I did an amazing 60 damage of Mr. Grimm's 65 health, with an average of like 30. He is the most squishy so other cars usually max out at near 40 for a perfect hit. Average damage for average armor cars is mid 20's it seems. More on collision later. The best collision damage is the most inconvenient since it seems like the highest is when corner impacts a corner so both cars go flying off in different directions. To give you an idea of damage the most powerful missile, the Power Missile does 18 damage. Remotes will be used as well as ricochet later. I am in conflict trying to get a handle on Turbo use. Turbo is so critical that I want to use it constantly, but it is expensive to use and the late levels in this game are large. Especially Hong Kong. Not sure of how to balance it out yet. Thanks for responding.

discord: CoolHandMike#0352

Posted: 4/12/2019 3:46 AM

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moozooh

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theripper999 wrote:

Also could you explain further by what you mean by expect more of this game?

I mean that for how fun it is to play—especially with a friend—it sure looks much more monotonous in a TAS (that tends to happen, yeah). I suppose bumping is to blame for that? But if you say there will be more variety down the line, that's good to know. I'll watch it in any case. Thanks for the detailed response.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 4/12/2019 3:03 PM
(Edited: 4/18/2019 5:42 PM)

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CoolHandMike

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Joined: 3/9/2019
Posts: 717

I am going to update every once in a while with new things I find to kind of keep things current. If anyone notices anything interesting or has an idea drop me a line. - It is possible to change weapons and fire on the same frame. Something like 50 frames until you can fire again. No known way of bypassing that as of now. Although Remotes can be set and detonated pretty quickly. - Pressing Down for 1 to about 10 frames depending on angle and speed of impact after an impact can reduce time you cannot move Axel since he goes airborne or will have his model overlap/go on top of the enemy car. - Impacting Hammerhead near teleporter on LA resulted in Axel clipping UP into the overhead area. Possible faster way of moving in multi level areas. - For really large impacts after jumping it is possible to change your angle to the left (prob to right as well) to prevent him from going flying and makes him controllable faster. - Turbo for a couple frames after impact will decrease time till next collision by a lot. - Turbo for a few frames at once or spread out across more frames vastly decreases time for turns. - Layout is random and changes every 1-2 frames. Press start on different frames for the transition world map is a good way to change and test layouts. - Speed display is constant while airborne. Make velocity lua script to check if true.

discord: CoolHandMike#0352

Posted: 4/12/2019 3:32 PM

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feos

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For significant updates it's welcome to make new posts, that way people get notified via email and can keep up-to-date. Editing the post doesn't send email notifications, so use it when you don't mean to inform people about new finds or when something doesn't require additional discussion.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 4/13/2019 3:37 PM

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InfamousKnight

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Joined: 9/12/2014
Posts: 541
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I'd like to see a tas of this. Even just a test run with no missed shots at earliest frame.

Posted: 4/14/2019 8:38 AM
(Edited: 4/16/2019 7:26 AM)

Post subject: Glitches Bugs Tricks P1

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CoolHandMike

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So whenever I play a game trick and glitch finding is always a major part. This will be no exception. Trying to create a list of tricks and bugs. Been watching TM2 videos and looking at gamefaqs forum posts and faqs all day. I knew this game was kind of glitchy but not to this extent! Have not double checked these. Some of these may be freak incidents, or hardware problems like them hitting the system itself while playing. I also suspect some Russians are playing with a hacked beta version of the game as well, but not sure. Some videos are just from hacks like flying through the air or moving around at 400 mph or whatever. That is not legit so no point to including those. ------------------------------ Car Tricks - Specials regenerate after end of level. - Death regenerates Special(s). Also gives 2 fire missiles and a napalm. -Possible to get pickups above and below you. Some cars have wider pickups then others like Axel and Mr.Grimm. -You can fire other weapons while using Mr.Slam's special -Thumper's special also may do burn. Just how strong is his special? "Thumper's precise damage is hard to point out since it also gives vehicle burn damage." -Marius Maximus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wcUADPlmKE -LuisParson states in comments how in Amazonia remotes and Shadow's special always do max damage. Check this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjBnqwbiKFo -In above video Youtube commentator T900BadBot states how with Thumper you can use use other attacks along with Thumper's special "Thumper was my go to car. You could freeze, machine gun, special weapon AND blast power missiles at once. If you could get your fingers right on the controls... you know that pesky cable..." Check this. -LuisParson says Shadow's special deals max damage on slopes and on airborne enemies. Check this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wcUADPlmKE&t=2004s -Some Characters have specials that go through walls. These I noticed: Shadow (by design) Axel Spectre (by design) Dark Tooth ------------------------------- Car Glitch -Mr. Slam's special does not always do 3 slams. https://youtu.be/mfN7XjJLYxQ?t=1041 -Mr. Slam's move gives him kickback when he misses. Maybe make him miss and kill himself on New York? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSEBduL9Nq4 -Mr. Slam can use special on a dead car. https://youtu.be/rnVII1HjxA0?t=826 -Dark Tooth collision bug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abTrA8Adyqw - While moving fast using a ricochet will hit yourself. Any uses? -Outlaw's special sometimes does not pop up enemies https://youtu.be/VNl059SrDBE?t=167 -Spectre when hit goes off in wrong direction at this point. https://youtu.be/bI1mk-WEO3Q?t=104 -Axel is most likely a "H" shaped polygon. I had Mr.Grimm clip through the middle of Axel, and another player TheConsole Killer I saw had Twister do the exact same thing. https://youtu.be/h7hfTRAu4Us?t=856 - When units clip through Axel it is possible to hit them when they are inside of Axel's polygon. TheConsole Killer hit Twister with a napalm when she was clipping in there. https://youtu.be/h7hfTRAu4Us?t=856 -Hammerhead has some bizarre behavior. Maybe his sprite is enormous? The game seems to treat him and things that impact him specially. TheConsole Killer's impacted into Hammerhead near a wall and Hammerhead then spawned behind Axel. - Cheats only possibly. There is some odd bug with Mr. Slam where by an unknown method using the special results in an enemy car flipping but does no damage. If missing Mr. Slam's special does not cost anything this might be useful...if playing with Mr. Slam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjNxO45M3ak - Certain cars are able to have their special continue even after death. Grasshopper https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCQEhUY9OVg Thumper https://youtu.be/rnVII1HjxA0?t=1231 -Playing as Sweet Tooth in Hong Kong can sometimes give you Dark Tooth's spiral special. https://youtu.be/1J8YiBICx1c?t=283 -Invisibility glitches. Seem useless vs CPU. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGwGWAkPGqA -"For an interesting bug, try getting Mr. Slam to use his special on your car as you teleport. This happened accidentally in New York and created some wacky moving cameras, with me ending up nowhere near the drop point for the teleporter and Mr. Slam also very far away." https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/199136-twisted-metal-2/faqs/4302 --"Sometimes in a 2P battle, my friends turbo meter showed 1 unit of turbo but the car acted like it didn't have any turbo. Especially annoying when you're on fire." https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/199136-twisted-metal-2/faqs/4302 -This glitch sounds horrific for Axel. "Sometimes in LA you can freeze Axel under the tunnel, and he will stay frozen!" https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/199136-twisted-metal-2/faqs/4302 -Roadkill glitch. "Sometimes in Paris, firing your special when facing the Eiffel Tower on the upper floor of the Louvre makes it not come back to you. Freezing him sometimes makes him skid all the way down the road too!" https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/199136-twisted-metal-2/faqs/4302 -Minion can clip through areas in LA. https://youtu.be/EVddI5ShyxE?t=109 -"When you grab a car with Mr. Slam's special, it's suppose to turn them sideways but Thumper turned itself and face me and hit me with the special. Some of these AI magic powers can be unnecessarily cheap." https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/199136-twisted-metal-2/57414119 -Grasshopper has a visual glitch that can occur when bumped where the car looks frozen even though it was not. Shortly after it also shows her glitching out and appears behind Axel after being smashed into the wall in Paris. https://youtu.be/UJkj7wvaCSw?t=75 -Twister - using invisibility then the special will result in a visual glitch where Twister is not in her spinning state when she gets out of invisibility. https://youtu.be/hQKLFHF61co?t=1165 ------------------------- Level Glitch -In Moscow upper area's weapon pickup sometimes has pickup disappear. https://youtu.be/mfN7XjJLYxQ?t=282 -a) New York has issues both good and bad. Apparently cars can suicide near start of level. -b) New York cars sometimes come back from being knocked off impossible to recover from areas...somehow. I suspect they get "out of range" then take no damage, but they are in an impossible to get to position so the game spawns them somewhere so you can kill them. - New York has some very strangely located pickup(s?) underneath the platforms of the large 2 level gray "structure" in the middle of the level. What look like a napalm and a ricochet. -Teleporting in Hong Kong after killing Dark Tooth, perhaps even while the transition screen is occurring causes the Dark Tooth head vehicle(?) to spawn where the teleporter was. There may be other teleporter glitches elsewhere in the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH__2JMlDos -Health pickup in Holland had no audio cue. Maybe invisible? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SaSPJQXPqY -Fire Pickup in Antartica seems not be active. https://youtu.be/bI1mk-WEO3Q?t=14 -On levels its possible to clip slightly into the ground, then bump into it and lose all momentum. https://youtu.be/rnVII1HjxA0?t=297 https://youtu.be/mfN7XjJLYxQ?t=386 -Turning sharply and having side overlap a wall can result in car, in this case Axel, getting stuck in wall. He ends up getting out of wall after getting attacked or maybe turning in the wall at the right angle. https://youtu.be/H7YsfZjbjFQ?t=525 -"In Moscow after destroying all the bridges, and the remains are on fire, try going into the fire. Anybody firing Napalm at you will be unsuccessful! It's pretty useless for Missiles and freezes though. It also stops you from firing back too. Napalm over the invisible barriers." https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/199136-twisted-metal-2/faqs/4302 -"Sometimes in Moscow when firing a Napalm or Freeze at someone whilst escending to the bottom of the bowl, the napalm and freeze miss their intended target and go into the ground and disappear." -https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/199136-twisted-metal-2/faqs/4302 -This is only /really/ apparent on Amazonia. If a little dot on your radar goes off it (and a direction arrow appears accordingly), you can't see that car in the game, and vice-versa. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/199136-twisted-metal-2/faqs/4302 -Something strange with Paris' textures not loading right. I remember reading somewhere else that this might be related to Dark Tooth/Sweet Tooth use. 2 posts of people getting this. I am thinking a hit Playstation system causes this reported Paris texture load glitch. "It was in paris, all of the cars that were in the match were lined up, but not moving. All of the backgrounds was light blue, except for the buildings they kept their shape and could still be seen even though they were light blue as well." -crashaert https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/199136-twisted-metal-2/62609237 https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/199136-twisted-metal-2/62358812 -Possible to get hit with Lightning while in harbor area in Hong Kong. " "...getting by the lightening in Hong Kong, while you're in the water area" --goroh16 https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/199136-twisted-metal-2/62358812 -Thumper's special can sometimes not fire in Antartica among other issues. "Glitches like opponents not screaming after death, explosion effects not appearing, and Thumper's flamethrower not showing up" -WhirlyBird319 https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/199136-twisted-metal-2/55056274 -In Holland cars are ignoring player and all in a single area. No explanation. Odd Russian text. Might be due to incorrect hack of game. Suspect a beta of the game was hacked due to another glitch that occurred where you spawn dead in New York that they show in the same video. https://youtu.be/EVddI5ShyxE?t=212 -"Put Grasshopper where the full health is at the corner and have another car stand at the left where the tunnel is. (Using PSP) Use her special and she will go outside of the stage. When she`s outside, put and remote there. Now go back where the full health is and do her special. Blow up the remote when she`s outside so her special could stop. You will be able to go anywhere." --goroh16 https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/199136-twisted-metal-2/41175003 https://youtu.be/EVddI5ShyxE?t=376 -Spawning dead in New York. Suspect a beta of the game was hacked due to another glitch that occurred where you spawn dead in New York that they show in the same video. https://youtu.be/EVddI5ShyxE?t=488 Beta explanation of glitch here. https://youtu.be/dI3kmFQJdBk?t=857 -"...in Hong Kong and while I was inside the place with train, Sweet Tooth was there. When I freezed him with ice, the train hit him and he was spinning around quick while frozen." --goroh16 https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/199136-twisted-metal-2/54930754 ------------------------ Level Trick -Health regenerates randomly? Do all pickups have random time for regeneration? "The game does requires luck to beat without deaths because the healths regenerates at random times." --Luis Parson. -LuisParson states in comments how in Amazonia remotes and Shadow's special always do max damage. Check. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjBnqwbiKFo -Cars can suicide on New York. Sometimes right in front of you. Saw Twister just veer off the ledge and die. -4 known remote detonators in Antarctica. Problem is one of them is on a platform that falls into the ice very quickly. -You can ride the train. Never knew. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44OlGPRO8r8 -Sounds useful if this could be replicated. "On Holland - Field Of Screams, I had blown up the tower with the full health pick-up on the top. And I was inside when I did that. The weird thing is that when I tried getting out of the wreckage, the camera went through the floor, blocking my vision, and when I fixed it, I found I couldn't move either, and what I saw drove me to tears, EVERY car was inside the wreckage, and no one could escape!!! LOL" --MGSPhantom -"To recover health from killing the pedestrians, you have to actually run them over. If you shoot them with machine gun or any other weapon, it will not give you the health after 10." -gmans33 https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/199136-twisted-metal-2/54933558 -------- OOB Glitches (Probably useless for a TAS) These seem to be counter to being useful. You don't want to run from the enemies and before the round ends you want to get useful pickups for the next round. OOBs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSeV6st8vok LA Paris Hong Kong (maybe for laughs after killing Dark Tooth if near the harbor area?) a) Do the harbor jump. b) A different one using Grasshopper in the tunnel

discord: CoolHandMike#0352

Posted: 4/16/2019 2:17 AM

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CoolHandMike

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Joined: 3/9/2019
Posts: 717

The hint from Luis Parson may prove to be a huge decrease in time if I can figure out how to use this effectively. I am noticing that there are some pickups that only appear once. Others regenerate. The time they regenerate I have not figured out yet but I have seen them appear again in the same spot almost immediately after being picked up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4vTHt24h9o&feature=youtu.be Axel has a MASSIVE vertical height for item pickups. Really does not seem right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hv1V3fQIHU&feature=youtu.be Also the running over 10 pedestrians to gain health thing is actually in the game. With so few pedestrians through the game no wonder I never saw this before. Audio cut out for some reason. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJkj7wvaCSw&feature=youtu.be Turbo display is not right. Each Turbo gives you 10. So a 20 Turbo display means you have 200 turbo. However the display has an error. 0 Turbo can mean you still 1-9 turbo left. In LA destroying the glass for a tunnel section makes pickups appear on top of that section. Seems like the list of cars for the first level cannot be changed. In between levels the car list can be changed by starting new level on a different frame. Quitting and restarting the first level changes the car list but it is slow. Input for the level starts about 7 frames before you can actually see your vehicle. Side note: Axel drives like a boat on wheels.

discord: CoolHandMike#0352

Posted: 4/16/2019 4:20 PM

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feos

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Joined: 4/17/2010
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If you enable Capture OSD in AVI/WAV menu, you won't have to record the screen to make a video. http://tasvideos.org/EncodingGuide/VideoDumping.html#Windows

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 4/17/2019 3:15 PM

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feos

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That one is a command line tool, what you need is a VideoForWindows encoder that can be seen in this menu

Lagarith doesn't work well with youtube, Camstudio codec isnt recognized by bizhawk 2.x, so your best bet is x264vfw, with either lossy or lossless mode. See here for where to get it and how to configure it: http://tasvideos.org/EncodingGuide/CustomEncoding.html

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 4/18/2019 7:27 AM

Post subject: Speed Bugs

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CoolHandMike

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Joined: 3/9/2019
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Feos thank you for more information. That will be extremely useful. I was able to output a file that actually had all the frames! So I can use mpc and advance frame by frame unlike where before I would be lucky if I got two frames sequentially. Will need to experiment a bit more with that. The lossy video file needed additional conversion for Shotcut to be able to modify. Needed to modify the audio since it was not in sync. Pc has been doing that lately with recorded video. ---------- So no surprise this game has some speed bugs it looks like. I will need to really compare distances and see how many frames it saves to really give the final judgement, but this is probably not completely incorrect. 1) Odometer is not correct. About 10 off. 2) Speed is maintained while airborne. 3) Some portion of the extra speed from turbo is maintained if you hold forward even after turbo is gone. Display shows the normal max speed however. 4) Slopes add to your car's speed. However after the slope ends the speed is maintained as long as you keep using turbo. Not sure how much turbo I could use to continually get away with this. Speed examples below. Twister going 219mph (Normal max turbo is 178mph) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBzswPwi7d0 Axel Going 147 (Normal max turbo is 138mph) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwWAz7VVs84&feature=youtu.be Turbo can be used to move forward. This will be used frequently since it allows you to move forward while inputting Advance Attacks. This even works after turbo has run out. Useful. Twice encountered the bug with Turbo where it makes the empty noise even when I had 1-2 Turbo left in the on screen display. --- Other Stuff On a sad note the regeneration of pickups is minutes long on the dozen or so I tested so farewell dream of easy double pickups. I doubt any of these levels will be over 3 minutes except maybe Amazonia, Holland, or Hong Kong. Paris can have an unfortunate enemy spawn where an enemy car can just hang out on the rooftops. Even though the only way to the rooftop for many cars is to make the Eiffel Tower fall. If you don't have the tower fall you need to have a fast vehicle do a jump out of the canal at high speed onto a rooftop. New York can have some very dumb enemies. Very dumb. Grasshopper in particular seems to have trouble NOT suiciding. Just casually half of the time she just falls off since she uses her special constantly trying to get to you. So she is a car I want to face when I do this level. Fall Glitch So the game makes it so you CANNOT die after the last car is destroyed. This allows you to commit suicide by falling, but be perfectly fine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBdQ0ZR2sQU

discord: CoolHandMike#0352

Posted: 4/18/2019 7:40 PM

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CoolHandMike

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Joined: 3/9/2019
Posts: 717

InfamousKnight wrote:

I'd like to see a tas of this. Even just a test run with no missed shots at earliest frame.

Sorry missed your post InfamousKnight. Thanks for the interest. Maybe creating something like that would be best. It would allow me to set upper time limits and get a full route down. Rather than agonizing over every enemy and whether I have the best setup per level. Focusing too much on small details and missing the bigger picture could have even a well executed run rejected for bad routing.

discord: CoolHandMike#0352

Posted: 9/27/2019 9:53 PM

Post subject: Join Now! Become a Bug in a Tiny Garden in the Country!

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CoolHandMike

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Joined: 3/9/2019
Posts: 717

Anyone interested in possibly doing a joint TAS for Twisted Metal 2? Going to go do that as my next project after MW4. Probably start it up sometime next month. Axel and Thumper are what I am looking to do for a 2 player run.

discord: CoolHandMike#0352

Posted: 11/23/2019 3:58 PM

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InfamousKnight

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Joined: 9/12/2014
Posts: 541
Location: Waterford, MI

I would rather see a 1P run instead. While 2P is faster, its hard to follow and hard to TAS.

Posted: 11/23/2019 6:34 PM

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CoolHandMike

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Joined: 3/9/2019
Posts: 717

InfamousKnight wrote:

I would rather see a 1P run instead. While 2P is faster, its hard to follow and hard to TAS.

If it is hard to follow just watch one car at a time. The rounds are very short in any case. Since when is difficulty in tassing relevant? Some of the best tases on the site are the result of a lot of work by the creator(s).

discord: CoolHandMike#0352

Posted: 11/23/2019 6:37 PM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)

Joined: 4/17/2010
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Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg

I'm totally for 2P!

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 11/23/2019 6:56 PM

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