Dolphin Version 5.0

Iso Checksum: 813c4511ba3135059a13de424555647e8252254b

No passwords were used in this run

Game Description:

This is a TAS of the NFL Challenge mode of NFL Street. NFL Challenge is the main single player mode of NFL Street, where a player is given an initial team of amateur football players to start off with. You are supposed to complete challenges to gain skill points for your players, and then, when you are ready, challenge NFL teams to games. Each game has a "first person to get 36 points wins" format, and there are no kickers or field goals in the game. In order to beat the NFL Challenge mode of the game, you must beat each NFL team, a team of all-star players from each division, and a team of all-time NFL greats called the NFL Legends team, which combines for a total of 41 games. In each game, the player is able to taunt their opponent via styling, make extremely hard hits, dive 10 feet for a touchdown, juke past opponents, stiff arm opponents, and lateral the ball to their teammates.

Programming Errors:

This play-through of the game takes heavy advantage of the fact that the play that the computer will call for the next play is determined by what frame the previous play ended on. As such, using save states I was able to complete the pass for the 2 point conversion for each play on the exact frame needed for the computer to call an option play on the next play. Then, I would blitz the computer on the side where the quarterback was about to lateral the ball, intercept the lateral, and return it for a touchdown. Additionally, this run takes advantage of the fact that the computer will be likely to deflect a pass from your quarterback into the air if your receiver is far away from the ball. This is used to make the computer bat the ball down the field for me, so that I could catch the ball right at the endzone for a touchdown.

Goals:

The goal of this TAS was to beat NFL Street's NFL Challenge mode as fast as possible, while also providing an entertaining experience for the viewer. This TAS was also intended to be cathartic to the viewer, since NFL Street is notorious for the amount of rubberbanding it has and for the fact that the computer is able to make almost frame perfect laterals whenever they are about to be tackled to keep a play going. This TAS punishes the computer for these actions, by using the computer's propensity to lateral as a means to quickly intercept the ball and rack up touchdowns. The game also features some styling and a lot of impressive dodges of defenders that will be sure to entertain viewers.

Making of the Movie:

Completing this TAS was made difficult due to 3 main issues. The first of these is that the team you start off with is really bad, and without wasting time doing the challenges to gain skill points, it's difficult to even score against the opposing teams, let alone to beat them. The second issue is that the game has a huge amount of rubberbanding. Once you get up by 24 points, expect every tackle you try to do to miss, and for every pass you throw to be intercepted. Only through precise play and many re-records can this issue be overcome. The last issue is that the CPU picks which play it will call on the next play based on what frame the previous play ended on. Things like input after the end of a play, delays before selecting the next play, or choosing different plays do nothing to affect what play the computer will call. Thus, if the computer didn't call for a lateral play on a given down (which was most plays, since lateral plays only happen about 10% of the time or less), it was necessary to redo the previous 2 point conversion try and throw the ball one frame later and hope that the computer would call for a better play next time. This was made more tedious by the fact that whether or not a pass will be caught by your receiver or not is not fully in your control. On certain frames of throwing the ball, no matter when you hit catch or where you move before the ball is thrown, your receiver will always drop the ball, and there is nothing you can do about it. This becomes especially common when you are up by 22 or more points, and can result in hours spent attempting a given 2 point conversion trying to get the right RNG seed for the next play.
Overall, this movie manipulates the computer into helping me beat the game as fast as possible, and features a lot of quick, frame perfect dodging and maneuvering around the computer to score points, which is sure to impress the viewer.
Additionally, this is the first TAS of NFL Street to have ever been made since the game was released in 2004. With a final RTA-Time of 1:23:20, this game beats the current any% world record by a human of 5:40:01 by over 4 hours!

Fog: Down! Set! Judging!
feos: Replaced the file with the one that reaches the credits (and cleared the false-positive "save anchor" flag).
Fog: With the sports rule cleared up, as well as the proper input file finally being provided, I can finally judge this submission.
This run is full of AI manipulation which makes the CPU team act like a bunch of idiots the majority of the time. However, it's still a sports game, and all the manipulation in the world can't save this run from becoming stale rather quickly.
There isn't any issues that stand out which would prevent this from being published, and it beats a known record by over four hours.
Accepting for Vault.
feos: Pub.


TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6303: Lobsterzelda's GC NFL Street "NFL Challenge" in 1:23:53.28
EZGames69
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Author didn’t post his video, I assume it’s this one: Link to video
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
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MacLean is unstoppable! Yes vote!
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First off, great movie. Is the game breaker necessary? Secondly, with the failed 2pt attempts, is it all because of the inability to get a good frame for that attempt and the next play?
Lobsterzelda
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electricslide wrote:
First off, great movie. Is the game breaker necessary? Secondly, with the failed 2pt attempts, is it all because of the inability to get a good frame for that attempt and the next play?
Hi electricslide. As far as the gamebreakers go, they weren't really needed. Initially, I was planning to use them to make the run more interesting, but after about the third game in, I decided that using the gamebreakers was a useless waste of time which didn't provide enough entertainment to be worth using, and scrapped using them for the rest of the games. Having said that, after the 1.5 second gamebreaker cutscene plays, the computer seems to hike the ball slightly quicker on the next play, but I don't think this is enough to offset the time lost by using the gamebreaker. With regards to the failed 2 point conversion attempts, those were a result of not being able to get a fast RNG seed for the next play on any play where the receiver could catch the ball. On certain plays it would be faster to throw an incomplete pass that gets the right RNG seed, since getting the player open and on the right RNG seed would take about a half second longer. Of course, in order to beat each game in the minimum number of plays (9), you can only miss one 2 point conversion in a given game. Since the computer gets better at coverage as your lead increases, I tried to save the missed 2 point conversion in each game for either the last or second to last 2 point conversion attempt. As an aside, one thing that could make this run a lot faster (if it was figured out) would be if someone discovered what conditions trigger a cutscene when you score a touchdown. From what i've seen, it appears to be slightly more or less likely in certain stadiums, and if you change the frame a pervious play ends on, it doesn't appear to effect if you get the cutscene or not. Discovering a way to manipulate the RNG to not play the touchdown victory cutscene could probably save somewhere between 1 and 2 minutes over the course of the whole run. I tried to get a copy of the game in assembly form so that I could analyze how its RNG function works, but I could only get a handful of lines from the Dolphin debugger. Hopefully, somebody with more knowledge of decompiling gamecube games than me will be able to find an answer to this question, and to determine what factors influence the play the computer will call next!
Fog
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For anyone having issues with syncing the run with the game, you must delete both the memory card and the SRAM file.
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We had a staff talk and couldn't find solid reasons for banning team-base sports games from Vault if they provide enough freedom for the player and can be meaningfully TASed. The former blanket ban for all team-based games was a result of some slight oversight and lack of good examples. It seems deviations from traditional rules in usual fixed-time team-based games are fine. So this game is acceptable now. http://tasvideos.org/diff.exe?page=MovieRules&rev=380
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Fog
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Can you please trim the input file to the last required input where you start the credits? The input file currently plays through the entire credit sequence with no input. Once this is done I can finally complete my judgement.
Lobsterzelda
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I uploaded a fixed input file to the userfiles section of the website which ends on the last input.
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Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Lobsterzelda
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feos wrote:
This one? http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/55268028583567066
Yes, that's the new movie. Sorry I forgot to post the link to the userfiles video.
Fog
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You don't need to end the inputs after pressing B at the end of the credits, just the A press needed to actually start it.
Lobsterzelda
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Fog wrote:
You don't need to end the inputs after pressing B at the end of the credits, just the A press needed to actually start it.
I thought that my revised input file did do that.
Fog
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Lobsterzelda wrote:
Fog wrote:
You don't need to end the inputs after pressing B at the end of the credits, just the A press needed to actually start it.
I thought that my revised input file did do that.
Sorry about that, I played the wrong file. Anyways, the current file you posted doesn't actually activate the credits.
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I can't even get either file to complete the first level. Can someone else check?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
fsvgm777
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The first level doesn't complete on my end either. Here's a rundown of what I tried:
  • portable.txt + create new memcard as SJIS (to trigger the memcard corrupted screen at the very beginning, as shown in the encode) -> This seems to be the condition to get it to sync....but it doesn't sync on my end (nor for feos).
  • No portable.txt + create new memcard as SJIS (see above) -> Dolphin treats as if it was formatted as ASCII, as I don't get the memcard corrupted screen.
Also, the movie file uses DSP-LLE (with the files provided by Dolphin, per the DTM Editor). Something that may be worth considering is that both I and feos are running on an nVidia graphics card. I run Win10 1809, feos runs Win7. EDIT: So it turns out using LLE interpreter (with the files provided by Dolphin) instead of LLE recompiler will cause the movie to sync for both of us.
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It required LLE Interpreter to be set in the Audio menu prior to starting the movie. The movie sets that anyway. But due to unholy magic that this emulator implements, having selected this option now makes the movie sync for me regardless of what I select upon next replay.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Lobsterzelda
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Fog wrote:
Lobsterzelda wrote:
Fog wrote:
You don't need to end the inputs after pressing B at the end of the credits, just the A press needed to actually start it.
I thought that my revised input file did do that.
Sorry about that, I played the wrong file. Anyways, the current file you posted doesn't actually activate the credits.
What's the last thing that my userfile movie does? I edited the movie file using a hex editor, so if my movie doesn't end with the credits being activated, I'm not sure what the last thing the movie does is.
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Here's what I'm getting. Link to video
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Lobsterzelda , is that the kind of movie ending you intended to make or not? As Fog has requested, please post the movie that does reach the credits.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Lobsterzelda
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feos wrote:
Lobsterzelda , is that the kind of movie ending you intended to make or not? As Fog has requested, please post the movie that does reach the credits.
Sorry for the delay. I couldn't figure out how to get the movie file to go to the ending using a hex editor, so I just played through the userfile movie I made, made a save state at the end of it, triggered the credits, and then made a dtm file from that, which I've posted here http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/55849373723630297 It says that the movie file starts from a save state, but based on the number of lines of input in the file, it appears to have stored all inputs from the moment the console was powered on, so this file should work normally without any setup.
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Good, it reaches this screen and then the credits roll.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Post subject: Movie published
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4019] GC NFL Street "NFL Challenge" by Lobsterzelda in 1:23:53.28