This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6474: g0dm0d3's NES Mickey's Adventures in Numberland in 09:15.62

Didn't watched the movie. Some notes: - Despite being educational / "calculator dressed up as a game", it has TASing merits like position optimizing. - The speedrun.com leaderboards has the super advanced one wrongly stated as 13:34, actually it's 14:34 - The speedrun.com's fastest any% with skips is 5:42 (this TAS doesn't uses skips) - Difficulty differences from a FAQ:

Normal has totally unique and easier level designs, and less numbers in each level to look for. Advanced has new levels for each area, pellets are counted and a counter is added at the bottom of the screen. The TV screens now move and rotate numbers. Super Advanced has the exact same level design as Advanced. You are given lives as well, so getting injured actually counts for something.

It appears the skips mentioned to not be used is that if you hold the select button for long enough, the level simply ends.

There are some additional differences between difficulties that were not mentioned in MESHUGGAH's post. First of all, on higher difficulties the red spheres you can collect throughout the levels serve as ammo for an attack where Mickey blows a bubble. Secondly, on the higher difficulties you MUST find and collect the number as indicated at the start of the level, whereas in the easiest difficulty you can skip it. Thirdly, pressing select merely exits the stage on higher difficulties, you can no longer use it to skip them entirely. If you touch the wrong number in a stage, no matter the difficulty, mickey merely stops and shakes his head, no damage is taken. The "TVs" displaying numbers will give a star if you jump on it while it matches the number of the stage and nothing if otherwise. At the end of each stage, you are asked to solve a simple math problem which is randomly determined. I found some improvements on the gameplay in the second level in this TAS but I lost some of that time due to having to manipulate a fast question. I am currently unsure about whether or not to consider the game educational by our rules. It seems to me that the hardest difficulty should have the best chance of being accepted since in that one, you can actually die, but I would like to hear others' thoughts.

I'm still against that "educational rule" because of how it's pointless and the way they are defined. However if you can tell me what happens when you fail the "bonus screen" (at the end of each level, a mathematical/number related question comes up. the difficulty introduces different mathematical tasks. On normal, you need to order 3 numbers from lowest to highest or count the number of objects and select between 3 numbers), I will reflect with the games' features comparing to the educational rule. edit: the reason this question is crucial, is that the FAQ refers to "bonus screen". However if solving these screens are important to beat the game, than it counts as a normal level, despite how it's presented in the game. While it does occupy only a very small percentage of the gameplay, being an obstacle rasies it's importance.

I'm still against that "educational rule" because of how it's pointless and the way they are defined. However if you can tell me what happens when you fail the "bonus screen" (at the end of each level, a mathematical/number related question comes up. the difficulty introduces different mathematical tasks. On normal, you need to order 3 numbers from lowest to highest or count the number of objects and select between 3 numbers), I will reflect with the games' features comparing to the educational rule. edit: the reason this question is crucial, is that the FAQ refers to "bonus screen". However if solving these screens are important to beat the game, than it counts as a normal level, despite how it's presented in the game. While it does occupy only a very small percentage of the gameplay, being an obstacle rasies it's importance.

If you get the answer wrong, Mickey says "Oops" and you are required to guess again until you get the answer correct. EDIT: As a bit of a side note, I'm not in love with the educational rule as it is currently phrased either, but I wasn't particularly involved in the relatively recent discussion surrounding it. If it were to be revisited, I'm not sure there would be much change.

Current educational rules versus this game+difficulty the TAS uses, using this RTA speedrun (normal + no skip) as a reference Link to video - A serious game where educational elements only occupy small portions of the game is eligible. OK: The only educational elements in this game+difficulty is answering a mathematical question at the bonus screen. It's either "order 3 numbers from lowest to highest" or "count the number of objects and select that number to submit your answer". Since you can't fail this level, former education is not required. There are 10 levels, which means 10 bonus screen. 1 level takes around 15~35 seconds of gameplay, moving Mickey around different levels to acquire an item (a number in this context). 1 bonus screen takes around 1~4 seconds. There is no real gameplay in these sections, apart from the ability to make a guess to solve a mathematical question. The speedrun I've used as reference finishes the game in 9:49. Approximate time spending on the levels 150~350 seconds Approximate time spending on solving a mathematical question: 10~40 seconds - If educational elements are scattered throughout the whole game, and most of the game can be completed casually without having to perform many educational activities, education is considered a secondary part of game-play, and such a game is eligible. OK: See above explanation. - A game which requires the player to be able to read in the game's native language is not a disqualification. OK: so this isn't a disqualification regardless of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_numeral_systems - If parts of a game require certain knowledge and details in order to complete it, which is educational, but all that knowledge is provided in-game during the course of otherwise normal play, learning and using such knowledge is not a disqualification. OK: Well I don't even know what should this clause refer to, but you don't need knowledge and details to complete the game. You can complete the game by trying out all the possibilities, since there is no game over in this mode as far as I understood.

- If parts of a game require certain knowledge and details in order to complete it, which is educational, but all that knowledge is provided in-game during the course of otherwise normal play, learning and using such knowledge is not a disqualification. OK: Well I don't even know what should this clause refer to, but you don't need knowledge and details to complete the game. You can complete the game by trying out all the possibilities, since there is no game over in this mode as far as I understood.

An example of what this clause is referring to: Suppose there is a game with basically minimal educational elements but one character is obsessed with a historical figure and asks questions regarding information said historical figure as a password of sorts. You can find in an ingame library the information needed to answer the question. This would explicitly be considered acceptable, even if you could alternatively find out the information through thorough knowledge of history.