(Link to video)
Hello TASVideos comяades! This is improvement of 114 frames over the previous Tetris "Mode B" TAS.

Game objectives

  • Emulator used: FCEUX-2.2.3 / BizHawk 2.4.1
  • Uses hardest difficulty
  • B-TYPE
  • Completes the game without any blocks left
  • Aims for shortest input time
  • Manipulates luck
  • Genre: Puzzle

Improvements

Archanfel

My humble improvement is new strategy for endgame. To finish the input earlier i brought the playing field at end to a specific configuration that the last two tetraminos could finish the game by free fall from the default spawn position.
No rotations + No movements = No input

Blazephlozard

Looking over the input I discovered that this game's soft drop mechanics were not being maxed out. At Level 19, a piece naturally goes down a row every 2 frames. After 3 frames of holding Down, your piece will go down 1 row, and reset that timer to 2 frames. So if you time that third Down frame right after a natural drop, you can go down 2 rows on 2 consecutive frames. But holding Down from there doesn't help, you have to restart a new 3-frame hold.
This leads to a pattern of 3 frames on, 2 off being the fastest soft drop I could find. Those 2 off frames are a great place to put horizontal movement without losing any time!
Dropping pieces faster allowed for new earlier RNG options, and facilitated an entire rebuild of the board. However, I still ended up aiming for the same shapes as Baxter did; I did make an effort for a new build, but it did not work out. There's some more info of my efforts in the forum thread.

Other comments

Initially i used 2/3 Baxter's old movie, it was extremely good optimised, but Blazephlozard with new soft drops tech made it even faster. However Baxter is still listed as coautor since his build was partially recreated.

Possible improvements

For sure it still is possible to ipmrove.
Game B is very hard to optimise. As was estimated by Masterjun in total there are about 32767 possible different seeds. However in practice only first 100-200 seeds are worth to be tested. If you will wait longer even luckiest pattent became poitless since you wasted to much time to wait it. However even "only" 200 cases is a lot of work. For example i gave up after testing only 4 cases. I wish good luck to hero of the future who will be able to test them all and find optimal.
By the way common mistake that i've read in discussion at Tetris NES forum is to exclude garbage patterns with odd starting blocks. It is wrong. Actually it is possible to clear all blocks in B-mode (a so-called "bravo") with almost any number of garbage pieces. If you build really high is possible to "cut" Tetramino(4 blocks) by top of screen and transform it into Tromino(3 blocks) and so change global parity.

Suggested screenshot

2298

Memory: Judging
Memory: Updating file with 91 frame improvement and updating emulator accordingly
Memory: Optimization looks good.
The internet appears to be a huge fan of quick tetris action and this TAS is no exception.
Accepting to moons to obsolete [925] NES Tetris "Mode B" by Baxter in 00:38.85.
feos: Pub.

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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6754: Archanfel & Baxter's NES Tetris "Mode B" in 00:36.89
Alyosha
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Wow another very unexpected improvement. Nice work Archanfel.
Challenger
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This was unexpected. Nice work!
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
Patashu
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Short and sweet, yes vote!
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Spikestuff
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Well you can just straight plop it into Hawk (2.4.1) and it'll just sync without any need for adjustments. The entertainment stays the same for me with a weak Yes vote.
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Blazephlozard
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Someone was talking about TASing NES Tetris yesterday and I was accidentally prophetic... The Mode B game's goal is to clear 25 lines. So, from a speedrun perspective, the fastest "Mode B" clear would be to just spam Tetrises near the top of the screen, same strategy as the 999999 points TAS. But from a stylistic perspective, clearing the board is obviously far superior, and with the hellish garbage the game gives you, makes it an extremely unique challenge compared to other Tetris TASes. So, for entertainment purposes, clearing the board is an important secondary goal. An early input end is a fantastic way to save time in Tetris TASes without having to restart the entire thing. I love them because it takes special care to set up the board just right for the pieces to fall into place (literally). As you said, it's possible that a faster run could be done using a different starting RNG (for a different garbage layout), but it's extremely hard to know for sure, and takes a LOT of effort to test each possibility. There could also be a much different build for this garbage layout, especially since this Tetris allows you to RNG manipulate what the next piece will be by delaying the current one. But considering Baxter's insane playaround TAS, it's safe to say he's quite good at building in Tetris. One potential way a full rebuild could be faster is if it does more of its 13 non-garbage-clearing lines closer to the top, saving vertical piece travel. Another way is to minimize line clear animations, so less singles/doubles. But, the garbage is not placed in a way that makes either of these timesavers an obvious task, or even possible at all. However, there seems to be one major timesaver that can apply to the exact same board build... It seems that soft drops are more interesting than you (or Baxter) may have thought. I wanted to figure out why, despite holding Down, the pieces were still moving at a rate of 1 row per 2 frames, yet sometimes, it would move down two frames in a row. From what I can tell, after 3 frames of holding Down, the game will do a soft drop down one row, and reset the "frames until next drop" back to 2. This means if you hold Down, you may get one soft drop, but after that, no effect from holding Down, until you let go and hold the 3 frames again. If this soft drop lines up with a gravity drop, it will only drop you one row that frame, so it has to be offset from the gravity drop. This leads to a pattern of 3 on, 2 off being the fastest I could find. Those 2 off frames are a great place to put horizontal movement without losing any time! This does have the unfortunate result of completely desyncing all of the RNG manip. But I would guess that recreating the current build's piece order, but with optimized soft drops, would still save a LOT of time (relative to the length of the run, at least!). There was also a 1 frame save I found on the final piece; you were moving the final piece left twice, then pausing to do one last manipulation. I moved the pause to in-between the two Left presses, allowing them to be done on two consecutive unpaused frames (a la SM64 pause BLJing). Saving a frame with a pause like this is probably only relevant for the final piece, since any other time, you're limited by the piece's vertical travel more so than its horizontal. Anyway, as a proof of concept, I was able to save 24 frames by soft dropping and re-manipulating the final 4 pieces (it uses different post-input-end pieces as well): http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/63491175011214274 Since the run is so short, resyncing with this new tech is definitely worth it. If you'd like to, go for it; if you'd rather not, I'm open to doing it. A collaboration could be helpful as well, if you'd like. The build is more key to the run than movement tech IMO, so I'd append myself onto the end authorship-wise. I'm unsure if implementing this movement change without altering the pieces used would require a resubmission, or just an updated movie file.
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Yeah for sure "Mode B" can be impoved yet futher. Actually i was hoped that my submission will become catalizator for beginning of new era of NES Tetris TAS :) Great job Blazephlozard! Weclome aboard. Judge can updated movie file to new and add Blazephlozard to list of authors.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell) Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Blazephlozard
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Archanfel wrote:
Yeah for sure "Mode B" can be impoved yet futher. Actually i was hoped that my submission will become catalizator for beginning of new era of NES Tetris TAS :) Great job Blazephlozard! Weclome aboard. I ask judge to replace movie file to new and add Blazephlozard to list of authors.
There's no movie to replace it with yet; the soft dropping, and RNG manipulation, would have to be done from piece #1. The "999999 points" TAS could be improved with this as well, but, the build options are so much more open-ended, I would hate to just resync the exact same piece order in that.
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Blazephlozard wrote:
There's no movie to replace it with yet; the soft dropping, and RNG manipulation, would have to be done from piece #1.
Go for it!
Blazephlozard wrote:
The "999999 points" TAS could be improved with this as well, but, the build options are so much more open-ended, I would hate to just resync the exact same piece order in that.
"Mode A" (aka fastest 999999) is another story. I have developed new advaced strategy for it. According to my calculations it is possible to save approximately 3-5 seconds over previous TAS. Even without yours new soft drops remanipulations. But to do it right it requre some bruteforcing. Unfortunately my own technical skills are not enough to do it properly. Yesterday i wrote invitation Acmlm to join team with me. In case he accepts my offer we will improve it. Now i start to think that it would be even better to have 3 people: Me (global strategy), Acmlm (bruteforcing), and you (soft dropping and RNG manipulation). Who know may be even sub 3 mins TAS can be done (or at least close to that mark).
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell) Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Blazephlozard
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Alright, with your blessing I'll work on the resynced Mode B TAS soon. I've been doing quite a bit of brute force Lua scripting recently (I'm 1.5 million runs deep in Pokemon TCG right now), but I can't think of a use for such things in Tetris, but I'm certainly interested. Though optimizing the soft drops won't have as big of an impact (there's barely enough time to do the horizontal movement it needs when it's playing near the top), if there's a brand new board setup strategy figured out, I'm open to helping execute it.
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Blazephlozard wrote:
Alright, with your blessing I'll work on the resynced Mode B TAS soon.
One more thing. In theory with perfect tetromino sequence is possible to complete last 6 lines with one animation less than i used now, but i was not able to found good RNG to do so. Perfect sequence: L, T, (J, I, L, O, I, I)* "end of input" O, O. *In brackets possible to use some other tetromino variants which will lead to same end formation. Here picture: When you will resynced movie please also try to check this idea, perhaps with your new soft dropping technique you be able to find good RNG. One extra animation cost ~16-22 frames. So it worth to try eliminate it. ----
Blazephlozard wrote:
if there's a brand new board setup strategy figured out, I'm open to helping execute it.
Yes as i said earlier i figured out new strategy. In current TAS Acmlm played tetris like god. In the new TAS we will play tetris like devil. Acmlm not yet answered, so i dont know if he want to make new Tetris TAS or not. I can not say will he join team or not. Well of course would be great to have him in team since he already did bruteforcing Tetris 10 years ago. His experience is priceless. But in case if he will reject i think we be able to make decent improvement for a few seconds without him too.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell) Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
xxezrabxxx
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Nice Improvement! I love watching any Tetris TAS, the way it manipulates RNG is hilarious
I like to comment on submissions and look around the site. You have probably seen me before (if you have been around for a while) either on the site, Discord, or any other social media. I recently took up making temporary encodes for new submissions. Also, I never forget to greet Tompa wherever I find him! "when resyncing stuff sucks it's called Resuccing" - EZGames69 “If an emulator stops being accepted to the site it should be called an emuLAMEr” - EZGames69 "oh no discord, everything I say will now be logged forever, sdfsdf, time to hide" - Masterjun "just had to give therapy to a taxi with daddy issues" - psx Current Projects: Mother 3 (75% complete)
Blazephlozard
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Thinking about 999999 points, I notice the current submission uses Level 18 (which has 3 frames gravity instead of 2 frames) to be able to move horizontally enough near the top. Tetrises are worth 1200 extra points per level, so I wonder if starting at Level 19 can be worth it (probably having to use pauses to increase horizontal travel). The top row triple glitch is still essential surely, since it saves so many pieces. There's a lot of great information on this page: https://meatfighter.com/nintendotetrisai/ Anyway, I've started the resyncing. My plan is to likely use the exact same build, but in many spots the order can differ. Like at the start, it places an I in column 2, O near the right, J far right, T slight left. None of these are on top of each other, so they can be done in any order, based on what takes the least RNG manipulation. From what I can tell, the frame that the new piece spawns is what decides the next piece, with Down+Left+Right usually delaying one frame (sometimes zero), and pausing delaying at least 2. Do you know if there's something more to it than that? I'll also keep an eye out for equivalent shapes (like this crude drawing): It's off to a bad start right now, I'm matched up because of ending up RNG manipulating the same pieces Baxter did. But once the pieces aren't so close to the top, the soft dropping will save more frames, so I can hopefully use some new options then... OK, I tried starting the run 1 frame sooner (which shifts ONE garbage block on the top row very slightly, as well as having different starting pieces) and built to the same shape, and am now 3 frames ahead! Hopefully more to come
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Blazephlozard wrote:
OK, I tried starting the run 1 frame sooner (which shifts ONE garbage block on the top row very slightly, as well as having different starting pieces) and built to the same shape, and am now 3 frames ahead! Hopefully more to come
Well if you can reach better time at other garbage pattern it is too big change. In case of success you free to make new submission without me and Baxter and i will cancel this one. By the way if you trying other patterns i highly recommend also to try start (press "T") at frame 304. This pattern has 58 blocks and so it required one tetramino less to complete.
Blazephlozard wrote:
Thinking about 999999 points, I notice the current submission uses Level 18 (which has 3 frames gravity instead of 2 frames) to be able to move horizontally enough near the top.
At first look it is counterintuitive but in reality level 18 start is definitely superior and by a lot margin. At level 19 is impossible to build really high so a lot of time wasted by free falling. In result on level 19 average time between spawn of next piece is 32.5 frames while on level 18 it is 28.6. Almost 4 frames per each piece. Also at level 19 is impossible to build "3 lines tetris" which is very significant. So start at level 18 is not a subject for discussion. It is only choice for TAS. P.S. Sent me your email adress in PM for our communication regarding Tetris project. Also question: do you prefer to work here on NES forum with publicly open discuission or to work secretly and keep details about improvement unknown until submission to make better surprise effect?
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell) Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Blazephlozard
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It's just a one brick difference, and I still plan to make the same shapes (figuring out an entirely new setup is out of the scope of what I want to do here), so I'm not really sure about resubmission. I'd keep your name if that's what it ends up being! EDIT: Also, due to a 4-frame rule on line clear animations, this new layout didn't actually save any time at all! But I'm currently 28 frames ahead after the fourth triple. Is there any chance we can do collaborating on a Discord server, rather than by email? It worked very well for the Dream Team Contest.
Blazephlozard
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I've come to some bad RNG that makes it pretty costly to try to replicate the old run. I've tried a couple new builds but can't get an ending that works. I'll probably just sacrifice most of my saved frames to stick with the old build... If anyone wants to see what they can do, this is what I have so far. It diverges from the old run's build around frame 1380 http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/63533485338544710
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Hi Blazephlozard! A few days has past, are there any news regarding your attempt to improve "Mode B"? By the way i added your nickname into "Extra edit privileges" so now you can edit submission text and add info about your improvement and any other comments. --- Now about our humble plans to conquer "fastest 999999" and beyond. What do you think about idea to improve not only "fastest 999999" but also "playaround" and beat both remaining TASes at the same time? [1596] NES Tetris "maximum score" by Acmlm in 03:11.78 [1502] NES Tetris "playaround" by Baxter in 02:17.36 To do so after completing "fastest 999999" with improvement we will dont stop here. No! Instead we start doing bonus "playaround" and play additional 2-3 minutes. Regarding playaround i think that to draw pixel art will be more entertainment to watch than regular pattern which Baxter used in his current "playaround" TAS. Also if we will start second phase of TAS after reaching 999999 points at level 23 we be very close to level 29 aka "kill screen" which will give us addition benefit becouse with insane speed our playaround will becomeeven more impressive. Final product can be called "fastest 999999 + playaround" or simply "Mode A". Dare you jump with me into the rabbit hole and try to create the best Tetris TAS in the universe?
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell) Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
CoolHandMike
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Not really familiar with Tetris but is clearing all blocks necessary or is that for entertainment? If it is for entertainment, how much faster would it be to just complete it?
discord: CoolHandMike#0352
Spikestuff
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As it says at the top (of the gameplay) it says you need to clear out 25 lines. The quickest way for NES Tetris is to use the field to your advantage as most of the layout is done for you. It's just convenient that it ends with an All Clear.
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CoolHandMike
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Spikestuff wrote:
As it says at the top (of the gameplay) it says you need to clear out 25 lines. The quickest way for NES Tetris is to use the field to your advantage as most of the layout is done for you. It's just convenient that it ends with an All Clear.
Nice. Yes vote.
discord: CoolHandMike#0352
Blazephlozard
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Sorry for the long delay, my mind got melted from my attempts a week ago and I blew it off til today. I really do not like this kind of Tetris RNG manipulating, it feels so gross to have to wait frames to get an exact piece, like there's gotta be a better way... Newer games would have a random bag, and I like Tengen's fixed piece order too, makes it more of a puzzle to fit what you're given. Luckily today I was able to find a way to split off from the old run's build after the fourth triple, and resync to the exact same board state at 6 lines left. I had a great sequence where I didn't need to RNG manip at all for 4 pieces, and then just a 6 frame delay to get an I-piece. Really quite good, probably less manip than the original build took, while saving soft drop frames of course. I was 43 frames ahead there. Unfortunately the ending suffered with, I feel, too much RNG manip required for the final few pieces. I've looked quite thoroughly over the last few hours and can't find anything better. You should try to find something! In the end, I got a 2216 frame end, 67 frames ahead of the proof of concept from before: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/63706490165615964 I can't promise I'd want to commit to any huge Nintendo Tetris project, since even this short category doesn't feel too fun...
Not really familiar with Tetris but is clearing all blocks necessary or is that for entertainment? If it is for entertainment, how much faster would it be to just complete it?
It's possibly faster to complete 25 lines by keeping all the garbage and doing it at the top of the screen (to hugely reduce vertical travel and line clear animations, at the cost of more pieces dropped), but the All Clear gives it a very unique and challenging goal compared to "fastest 999999" or Tengen's "30 lines".
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Great job Blazephlozard! Since you completely redid Baxter's part now you are became main author for this submission. I made small cosmetic changes for new improvement, replaced pausing into slowdown were it was possible and also added epileptic piece rotations for additional entertainment. Here new encode: Link to video Here movie file: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/63710396427040876 ---
Blazephlozard wrote:
I can't promise I'd want to commit to any huge Nintendo Tetris project, since even this short category doesn't feel too fun...
Acmlm also do not answered my invitation. Sad to cancel such great project. But i not capable to it pull it alone. Our “Mode A” potentially had could become legendary TAS...
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell) Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Blazephlozard
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Hmm, I'll still include Baxter. I did recreate his work after all. The exact pieces used aren't really as relevant as the shape they end up creating. But it did take a lot of planning to theorize the different ways to remake that shape and see which the RNG would allow, so I suppose main author is ok... Sorry for taking control of your movie here, but you seem fine with it, but sorry anyway :P
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Blazephlozard wrote:
Hmm, I'll still include Baxter. ... Sorry for taking control of your movie here, but you seem fine with it, but sorry anyway :P
Yeah i totally ok with it. New movie file, now with Baxter into header again: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/63711627034403606 @Memory Please replace movie file ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell) Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4210] NES Tetris "Mode B" by Archanfel & Baxter in 00:36.89