This topic is for the purpose of discussing #805: Randil's NES Circus Charlie in 03:23.83

Still made in Game mode B, it seems. Therefore I can't say whether it's better or worse than the existing publication. Voting Meh. Note: I will not publish two movies of Circus Charlie parallerly. Either this has to be better than the existing movie (in which case it will obsolete the old one), or it will be rejected. In frames, this movie is faster than the existing submission, but that's not to say much because the timers are different in the two game modes.

Yes, it is still made in mode B because if I'm to do a run of game A I want to be faster (or equally fast) )than Phil's version on every stage. So far I can't finish stage 1 as fast as Phil. If I was to make a run of game A, it would probably be a little faster than Phil's version bacause I found out that you can save some time on stage 5, stage 1 would still be slower than Phil's run however. To Bisqwit: What do you mean by that the timers are different? All stages on game A and game B start of with the same time, and time goes down equally fast. In game B you get more point per timeunit though. Of course it's up to you voters to decide whether this run is better than Phil's or not. I will not vote myself on this. Unless someone finds out how to manipulate luck in this game I don't think that this run is improvable by more than 1 second.

Like I said in previous post at the forum, and on IRC... I think it's unfair to publish a movie when the only reason for it being faster is the fact that it's played on another mode. I can easily reproduce this time on B mode, but I can't get a time equally as fast as Phil on A mode. Therefor the quality of Phil's run is higher, and I think it's silly to obsolete a better run for a run that's played not as good, on another mode... Therefor, voting no.

All right, then I'll do a run on game A, just to see if I can beat Phil's time. In terms of gameplaying, this run is most likely as good as possible without manipulating luck, and since I don't know how to do that I don't think that this run is improvable on game B without manipulating luck.

I agree on that... I didn't say I could beat this time on B... I said to make a time equally fast is very possible for me. Since I also don't know how to manipulate the objects, I can't beat the time on A... My mode A movie's length is 12348 frames long, and I predict that yours will be aswell.

I checked your previous version, and if only one frame where improved in level 4 I have to vote no. This is because of Bisqwits statement and also, despite it's played on "hard mode", Phils movie looks more fluent. Nice try though.

I also voted No for the same reasons as Baxter. The run should be made in the same mode/difficulty as the previous one to obsolete the older one. Or it has to be done _way_ much better/faster/entertainier/etc. than the previous one so that it maybe get published to company the older one (which was made in the difficultiest mode).

I'll also give it a "Meh" - I honestly don't know whether it should be published or not. The fact that it gets a better time on a harder difficulty normally would make it an obvious "yes", but the old movie was recorded in Famtasia, while this one's done in FCEU, so it's not clear to me if the times can be compared in a meaningful way. Of course, maybe this should be taken as an opportunity to get rid of a movie that a) is not played on the hardest difficulty (which it should be) and b) is not played in FCEU (which arguably is a better emulator choice than Famtasia), but that's something I think only Bisqwit can decide.

Well, this game is simple and both emulators do emulate the game the same way. By adding 2 null frames at the start of my movie and convert it to FCM, it should play fine under FCEU, from what what I remember.

I don't think the site is for competition NESVIDEOS as i see it is made for hosting entertaining videos, and i think that most people want to see a game finished flawlessly on HARD rather than on EASY. Picking MODE A in the first place was a mistake if you want to compete on circus charlie do it right.

Phil's movie seem to be ~20 frames too slow on the menu. I tried stage 1 and i could finish it doing the same strat he did without need to wait on the menu.

That's kinda strange. Because my video was faster than walkerboh, so both of us didn't do the intro correctly? Pretty strange. Maybe there's a frame rule and you did 1 frame faster which gives you 20 frames faster.

You can hit start so that the menu appears so that you rpess start again to start the game. I made the same mistake on kick master.... i had to redo everything.

Anyway, I think I should redo all games that I have done with Famtasia with FCEU. Btw, FCEU does have a slower clock than Famtasia so, when someone beats a Famtasia movie with FCEU then, it is really faster. ;)

I have been trying to beat stage 1 on game A on the same time as Phil, but no matter how many times I try, I always end up with the same situation: I can't make that last jump without slowing down. I can't make the first jump on stage 2, where Phil jumps over a ball, either. And I tried doing this many times, using frame advance. So my question stands: How does Phil do it???

randil, watch closely his movie in slow motion you'll see what happens

Yes, I'll probably do that, and if I'm lucky I'll figure out if I can find out what it is that he does... That means i'll probably have to use Famtasia again :( (no, I don't like that emulator)... And I can understand that most of you think of this movie kind of like Walker Boh did, that it's a generally good try but Phil's movie looks more fluent. If I can figure out how to manipulate luck, then hopefully my game B run will be as fluent. I will be unable to do work more on this this weekend, I'm going away and won't be back until monday, but I'll look into this matter more when I'm back. Even though this movie has more NO-votes than YES-votes at the moment, I'm glad that so many users has shown big interest in this. I'll see you all on monday then!

Ok phil doesnt manipulate luck on his movie, there's no ramdomness in this game. He actually stops to wait, but you didnt notice :)

No, he do manipulates luck. An ordinary stop is far longer than that.

No, walkerboh, it wasn't ramdomness, it was just enough wait frames to get through without getting burned (3 frames of wait, then 2 frames back before last jump).

Ok phil doesnt manipulate luck on his movie, there's no ramdomness in this game. He actually stops to wait, but you didnt notice :)

But there is randomness in this game.

FODA, if you tell me exactly where Phil waits I could make an .fcm and find out if I can make that last jump without wasting a lot of time. BTW, thanks for finding this out FODA :) Ok, going to check out if I can make that annoying last jump on stage 1 with this new information... EDIT: Okay, I have spent a lot of time today trying to make that last jump... Here's what I found out: What Phil does in his movie is this: After his jump through the last ring before the 10 meter mark, he walks one frame back, two frames forward, one frame back, two frames forward, one frame back, and then two frames forward again. This is the only time that he either stops or walks back as far as I know, therefor it is probably this that makes it possible for him to make that last jump. I have tried doing the exact same thing as he does, but I still can't make that last jump... :( Right now, I'm starting to get tired of not getting this last jump right. I hope that I find out how to do this soon, or else I'll probably give up on this game...

I am cancelling this submission for various reasons. Mainly because I have came to the conclusion that Phil's run is of higher quality than mine is, since I could beat his time on game B but not on game A. Generally though, I do agree with FODA (and the guidelines) that the TAS for a game should be done on "hard"-mode, if it's avaialable. But the fact it's harder to do a TAS on this game on game A than on game B, at least in my opinion. Therefor it's still pretty good that there is a "game A" movie on the site. Anyway, I hope you still thought my run was pretty interesting. At least it was fun making it :).