Submission Text Full Submission Page
[TAS] Prince of Persia (DOS, 1990) any% by eien86 in 12:09.333
In this timeless classic, the tyrant Jaffar has seized power and has forced Sultan's daughter to marry him. You, the brave youth who is a prisoner in Jaffar's dungeons must rescue her within 60 minutes. Little does poor Jaffar know that he will be defeated in a fifth of the intended time.
- Total IGT: 12m 09s 333ms
- Level Skip IGT: 08m 58s (Estimated)
- Total RT: 12m 59s 666ms

Game objectives

The objective of the game is to beat all 14 levels in less than 60 minutes (IGT). In the "any%" category, all tricks and glitches are allowed except for the use of cheats. This category requires that all levels are completed (without skipping the first three levels using the SHIFT+L code).
This movie makes the best effort to reduce the real time to solution. However, it is the IGT the one used as the metric for speed, as it omits cutscenes and account for changes in framerate (the game operates in 12 FPS normally, but 10 FPS during combat). The IGT starts immediately on Level 1 and stops as soon as Jaffar dies in Level 13, as this is the time taken for the high-score board. Level 14 is only accounted for in RT, hence the difference between both times.
A potential level Skip run IGT can be obtained by subtracting the time for the first 3 levels. In this case, it results in an estimate of 08:58m which a notable improvement compared to 12:20.58 of the previous level-skip TAS produced by David Newton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfOocUkxJ08).
In general, this run abides by the same rules as the RTA runs (https://www.speedrun.com/pop1). Only difference is that we use the Prince of Persia 1.0 version as emulation for newer versions does not handle sounds well. Here some guard reaction times and probabilities are changed, but overall the gameplay is the same.

Comments

This movie is the result of decades of routing and discoveries, and has been developed with extensive help from the current speedrunner community. Notable contributors to the routing are the actual game top speedrunners, such as (in no particular order) crem, CapnClever, 7eraser7, Karlgamer, YOLO4GG, GoodSpectre, Higlak, Velcheran, Creditor, WinterThunder, uvq3tsa, Wolfadawn, KenshinTrek, and GMP.
The route has improved a great deal during the last few years thanks to the use of savestate-enabled emulators (e.g., DosBox-X), allowing players to try different tricks without losing too much time. The development of this TAS is largely based on the existing route but has introduced two novel approaches:
- Frame by Frame Analysis / Memory Debugging
Thanks to the use of emulators (JPC-RR) and memory debuggers (Cheat Engine), the discovery new tricks (e.g., level 7 and 8 skips -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtFVLF5kuds, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlBbu612T1o) that would have not been otherwise possible, as their discovery required a frame-perfect input and RNG-heavy setups. Fortunately, more human-friendly versions of these skips have been developed after their discovery.
- Routing by Exhaustive Seach
The development of an open-source version of the game (SDLPop, https://github.com/NagyD/SDLPoP/) allowed the development of a high-performance parallel breadth-first search bot, called Jaffar (https://github.com/SergioMartin86/jaffar) that exhaustively explores all possible movements in each possible frame. The search is made possible by constraining the exploration space to that of a pre-determined route, requiring a few trillion states per level. As a result, the bot found the most efficient way to traverse the community-established route. We've applied Jaffar repeatedly on a supercomputer to solve for every level. Following strict definitions, the re-Record count is: 836,877,925,474.

Stage by stage comments

Level 1:
The route for this level has been proven to be optimal by the bot on sheer brute force. The strat includes bunny hopping at the beginning for a quick fall and then skip the guard via a timed jump.
Level 2:
A long level. No changes to the route here compared to RTA, but a lot of RNG optimization by the bot to skip all guards faster.
Level 3:
The bot-optimized movement here played a big role in shaving those last few frames. Movement, especially while ascending/descending the way to the exit door open tile has been highly optimized. An RNG-induced hit by the skeleton saves a few backward steps with the sword.
Level 4:
Here a few known skips are used, most notably using the guard to open the first door. The bot's contribution is minimal here, optimizing a few movements before/after the mirror.
Level 5:
Here the door skip is employed to skip a big part of the level. This is performed by luring the guard to the left and then clipping through the door while on-guard. The rest of the level includes the normal route, optimized via the bot.
Level 6:
Here we used the normal route. A nice jump over the hole in the second-to-last screen was found by the bot
Level 7:
Perhaps the most broken of all levels, we employed the newly discovered level 7 skip which contains a whole array of glitches all working in unison. First, we 'moonwalk' the guard through the chomper, then we make him fall 2 stories without dying by exiting and reentering the room. Then we use the guard to perform a 'Yolo skip' through the door. This route was exhaustively optimized by the bot.
Level 8:
Another spectacularly broken level. We lure the guard towards the 'useless' bad potion room and use him to make us clip through the wall and the floor towards the end of the level. This marks the return of the mouse who comes to save the day.
Level 9:
Definitely the longest and hardest to crack level. Here, the only skip found was the damage clip through the last door that allows us to skip making the loose tile fall, saving a few seconds. Other than that, it is still ripe for skips. Here the movements were highly optimized by the bot.
Level 10:
Here we make use of a few tricks, including 'guard jump', 'overflow teleport', 'yolo skip', 'fall damage cancel', and RNG manip. It would be very hard to improve level 10 any further.
Level 11:
This level remains skipless, mainly because of it's layout (all horizontal) it is still hard to crack. However, all moments were optimized by the bot, shaving many frames in the way.
Level 12:
An climbing level, here we use the 'overflow teleport' trick to skip to the shadow screen. Here, we grab the sword and immediately merge with the shadow to exit the level.
Level 13:
Here we used the bot to manipulate RNG to guarantee a fast Jaffar kill. As soon as Jaffar dies, the IGT clock stops.
Level 14:
This level only requires running a few screens, and IGT does not count anymore.

Other comments

This TAS is 28 seconds faster than the current RTA WR, and 10 seconds faster than the sum of human best segments. This speaks to the incredible skills of the RTA runners, who have incorporated most of these seemingly TAS-only tricks into their runs succesfully.
A few more seconds could be gain for this TAS through the following:
- Improvements to Jaffar's memory management can allow for 10-100x wider searches, and perhaps discover new unknown skips.
- Many ideas for skips on later levels are still under research.
- A more robust RNG manipulation throughout the game (not only per-level).
Emulation Issues:
- Sound Blaster emulation seems to cause jittering in this emulator and game version. This is the best setup we've found, as the only other option is using PC Speaker emulation which, besides sounding horrible and ruining the entertainment factor, it affects the way RNG operates and thus also that of the gameplay.

Nach: Judging.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15585
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #7116: eien86's DOS Prince of Persia in 12:59.65
ViGadeomes
He/Him
Judge, Active player (311)
Joined: 10/16/2017
Posts: 461
Location: France
I saw that you uploaded the wrong file on a first submission, it wasn't necessary to cancel it, you could just have asked to a judge to replace the movie with the good file by uploading it on userfiles and linking it on your submission text or in a message. Anyway, in concern of the TAS, I found it pretty good and entertainning with all these glitches. Yes vote.
Challenger
He/Him
Skilled player (1689)
Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1062
As a Prince of Persia TASer, I'm really proud to see how this TAS is highly optimized, and even skips some stages - I was blown away (especially Level 8) when I saw your previous run weeks ago. Great work and Yes vote. ------ Fun fact: The SegaCD version of this game (I made a TAS four years ago) is an very accurate port of DOS version, so the physics works similar. In other words, I tested those skips and worked successfully! I'll update that run.
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
GMP
He/Him
Editor, Reviewer, Active player (395)
Joined: 5/22/2020
Posts: 197
Location: Chennai, India
Great TAS, as a member of RTA community and also having done a TAS of this game myself, I can say that this TAS is quite well optimised both in terms of movement and RNG manipulation. I would also like to mention that despite being one of people credited in the description, my participation in making of this TAS was extremely minimal, not more than giving some little feedback. Eien did a lot of work for this game all by himself in the past 2 months including level 7 and 8 skips, setting up the bot, finding the optimal setup for the emulator to be in sync with the bot, etc. and this is the result of it. Yes vote.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11477
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Sorry I haven't read the entire submission text, but is this meant as a "major skip glitch" counterpart of #7096: GMP's DOS Prince of Persia "no major glitches" in 18:50.82?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
eien86
He/Him
Judge, Skilled player (1873)
Joined: 3/21/2021
Posts: 262
Location: Switzerland
feos wrote:
Sorry I haven't read the entire submission text, but is this meant as a "major skip glitch" counterpart of #7096: GMP's DOS Prince of Persia "no major glitches" in 18:50.82?
Yes, that's correct
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11477
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
What's the major skip glitch in this one?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
After completing the first level in the DOS version of Prince of Persia, the game asks the player to drink a potion which corresponds to a certain letter found in a particular area of the game's manual. How was this skipped?
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
PLANET
He/Him
Joined: 1/3/2018
Posts: 73
Having watched the previous entry I Yes voted this instantly even without watching. Should be a total pleasure to see how it looks : ) As a burning side question - is it possible to drink the +1 HP potion on Level 5? ; )
eien86
He/Him
Judge, Skilled player (1873)
Joined: 3/21/2021
Posts: 262
Location: Switzerland
feos wrote:
What's the major skip glitch in this one?
Here are the timestamps for the so-considered major skips in this run: Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIEG42RMt_I Level 4 Door Skip - 3:21 Level 5 Door Clip - 4:25 Level 7 Door Clip - 5:18 Level 8 Wall Clip - 6:18 Level 9 Door Clip - 8:48 Level 10 Overflow Glitch - 9:13 Level 10 Door Clip - 9:35 Level 12 Overflow Glitch - 11:50 These tricks skip significant parts of the level. The ones market with * are especially notable. In addition to these, a multitude of guard skips (see 0:15) and other minor glitches are performed throughout the run which are not allowed in the No Major Glitches run.
eien86
He/Him
Judge, Skilled player (1873)
Joined: 3/21/2021
Posts: 262
Location: Switzerland
PLANET wrote:
Having watched the previous entry I Yes voted this instantly even without watching. Should be a total pleasure to see how it looks : ) As a burning side question - is it possible to drink the +1 HP potion on Level 5? ; )
Hi Planet, Thank you for your vote :) Regarding your question, no, it's not possible. However, we haven't proved this categorically yet. I'm planning to make some improvements to the bot to have a wider search and see if in some strange way this could be done.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11477
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
How much time does the Overflow Glitch save overall?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
eien86
He/Him
Judge, Skilled player (1873)
Joined: 3/21/2021
Posts: 262
Location: Switzerland
Nach wrote:
After completing the first level in the DOS version of Prince of Persia, the game asks the player to drink a potion which corresponds to a certain letter found in a particular area of the game's manual. How was this skipped?
We use (for TAS and for RTA speedrunning) a version of the game that has this screen disabled. Edit by Nach: Please do not post illegal links to games.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
eien86 wrote:
Nach wrote:
After completing the first level in the DOS version of Prince of Persia, the game asks the player to drink a potion which corresponds to a certain letter found in a particular area of the game's manual. How was this skipped?
We use (for TAS and for RTA speedrunning) a version of the game that has this screen disabled.
Using a hacked version of the game is not allowed on TASVideos. Please see this post.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
eien86
He/Him
Judge, Skilled player (1873)
Joined: 3/21/2021
Posts: 262
Location: Switzerland
feos wrote:
How much time does the Overflow Glitch save overall?
Around 15 seconds in Level 10, and 35 seconds in Level 12.
TASVideosGrue
They/Them
Joined: 10/1/2008
Posts: 2785
Location: The dark corners of the TASVideos server
om, nom, nom... blech, bitter!
Player (26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
Great run! I know this game quite well and this had me laughing and going "wtf?!" several time. You definitely have my vote, at least as soon as you include the copyprot screen. That should be easy enough, no?
feos wrote:
Sorry I haven't read the entire submission text, but is this meant as a "major skip glitch" counterpart of #7096: GMP's DOS Prince of Persia "no major glitches" in 18:50.82?
Rather, I'd say that RTA rules somewhat-arbitrarily allow certain glitches but not other glitches; the other run follows RTA rules and this one does not. That makes this run "any%", and the other one probably fails to be different enough for a new branch.
PLANET
He/Him
Joined: 1/3/2018
Posts: 73
Well, as expected - that was smashing. Pure joy to watch : ) Thank you for making this : ) Have you considered trying on Prince of Persia 2 in the same extreme fashion? : D
GMP
He/Him
Editor, Reviewer, Active player (395)
Joined: 5/22/2020
Posts: 197
Location: Chennai, India
Radiant wrote:
Great run! I know this game quite well and this had me laughing and going "wtf?!" several time. You definitely have my vote, at least as soon as you include the copyprot screen. That should be easy enough, no?
feos wrote:
Sorry I haven't read the entire submission text, but is this meant as a "major skip glitch" counterpart of #7096: GMP's DOS Prince of Persia "no major glitches" in 18:50.82?
Rather, I'd say that RTA rules somewhat-arbitrarily allow certain glitches but not other glitches; the other run follows RTA rules and this one does not. That makes this run "any%", and the other one probably fails to be different enough for a new branch.
I dont follow "RTA rules", I follow the RTA rules for the "No Major Glitches" category, that is a very important detail. Also adding the copy protection screen back isn't as easy, I am not sure if there is way to do it without having to redo the whole thing.
feos wrote:
What's the major skip glitch in this one?
There isn't one "Major skip glitch", as eien mentioned. there are a lot of major glitches that are not to be used in the NMG run. They add up throughout the run and give a difference of about 6 minutes.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11477
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
GMP wrote:
There isn't one "Major skip glitch", as eien mentioned. there are a lot of major glitches that are not to be used in the NMG run.
How do you distinguish major glitches from non-major?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
GMP
He/Him
Editor, Reviewer, Active player (395)
Joined: 5/22/2020
Posts: 197
Location: Chennai, India
feos wrote:
GMP wrote:
There isn't one "Major skip glitch", as eien mentioned. there are a lot of major glitches that are not to be used in the NMG run.
How do you distinguish major glitches from non-major?
The main factors we consider are how hard it is to pull off, how much time it saves, and lastly how visually jarring it looks. And then we agree as a community whether something is a major glitch or not.
Player (26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
feos wrote:
GMP wrote:
There isn't one "Major skip glitch", as eien mentioned. there are a lot of major glitches that are not to be used in the NMG run.
How do you distinguish major glitches from non-major?
Frankly I'd also like to know that; I asked the same in the earlier thread. For instance, turning off chompers is easily doable in real time, barely noticeable, and saves 2-3 seconds in a single spot, yet is considered a "major glitch". On the other hand, turning away from guards in mid-combat is really hard in real time (because bad RNG can get you killed), very visible because it looks funny, saves a ton of time, and is considered "not a glitch". ...I honestly don't get why.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Radiant wrote:
For instance, turning off chompers is easily doable in real time, barely noticeable, and saves 2-3 seconds in a single spot, yet is considered a "major glitch". On the other hand, turning away from guards in mid-combat is really hard in real time (because bad RNG can get you killed), very visible because it looks funny, saves a ton of time, and is considered "not a glitch".
I'd take it further. Glitching past a chomper doesn't change the route for the level at all. You had to go past that chomper, and you go past the chomper. Going past guards in certain places means you have completely new routes where you don't need to work around to find a way to open a gate or get an item needed to bypass the guard. The glitches that bypass tons of level and allow completely new routes are the ones that are a major glitch, according to every definition we've ever used in the past.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
GMP
He/Him
Editor, Reviewer, Active player (395)
Joined: 5/22/2020
Posts: 197
Location: Chennai, India
Radiant wrote:
feos wrote:
GMP wrote:
There isn't one "Major skip glitch", as eien mentioned. there are a lot of major glitches that are not to be used in the NMG run.
How do you distinguish major glitches from non-major?
Frankly I'd also like to know that; I asked the same in the earlier thread. For instance, turning off chompers is easily doable in real time, barely noticeable, and saves 2-3 seconds in a single spot, yet is considered a "major glitch". On the other hand, turning away from guards in mid-combat is really hard in real time (because bad RNG can get you killed), very visible because it looks funny, saves a ton of time, and is considered "not a glitch". ...I honestly don't get why.
We consider the chomper a glitch because it requires a specific fall, it not hard at all even in RTA but it's not as simple as just skipping a trigger either, in which case wouldn't have been considered a glitch at all. Regarding running away from the guards, I don't see why you keep bringing it at all. It is totally a intended feature and 100% consistent to get past them without even being hit. I take hits because it not worth to parry them in case they attack, but its like at most 0.3 seconds. At the end of the day, the whole point of the TAS is to push even totally intended mechanics to their last frame, so they are frame perfect in that sense, but that doesn't make them hard "tricks" in real time.
Nach wrote:
Going past guards in certain places means you have completely new routes where you don't need to work around to find a way to open a gate or get an item needed to bypass the guard.
No going past the guards absolutely doesn't change the route at all. The only thing I'm need to kill guards is the sword which the prince has throughout the game. The only reason it's not done is because it is slow. I understand the sentiment that something being hard doesn't matter for TAS at all, but yeah I intended to show movement more than anything else. PS: Not sure why we are discussing in this thread, whereas in the other thread discussion about any% is going on lol.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
GMP wrote:
Nach wrote:
Going past guards in certain places means you have completely new routes where you don't need to work around to find a way to open a gate or get an item needed to bypass the guard.
No going past the guards absolutely doesn't change the route at all. The only thing I'm need to kill guards is the sword which the prince has throughout the game. The only reason it's not done is because it is slow.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. In the first level, the prince does not start with the sword, and you have to go left and then back to get it. Going past the guard avoids that. There's two ways to do it, one is jumping through him as seen in the video. The other is to get him to follow you left, and keep doing so till you have a path to walk around him. Then suddenly in the second level you have the sword even though you didn't collect it. In later levels where you go past the guard to push you past a gate, that absolutely changes the route.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.