Judge, Skilled player (1278)
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As of 17.05.2022, VBA-rr is no longer allowed for GB/C publications. Original post: Note: This idea only regards Gameboy and Gameboy Color in VBA-rr. Gameboy Advance in VBA-rr will remain allowed regardless of this poll. Also, lsnes will remain allowed for GB/C submissions. Over the last years, GB/C emulation has gone through dramatic improvements, to the point that console verification has become a common thing for TASing GB and GBC games. This became possible thanks to the endeavors of the people behind Gambatte and GBHawk, of which some of them are also prominent contributors on TASVideos like TiKevin83, CasualPokePlayer, Alyosha. Especially today, with the release of BizHawk 2.8, we've achieved quite a milestone for GB/C, thanks to the accumulated improvements to emulation accuracy, the introduction of SameBoy core for GB/C, and some Lua support for Linux via Mono. On the other hand, VBA-rr hasn't got any update in 5 years. It's not able to produce any console verifiable movie due to its inaccuracy, to the point that can cause some glitches that don't happen on real hardware. The movie timing reported is always wrong because of inaccuracy of loading times. The audio emulation is noticeably bad. It doesn't emulate real time clock properly. It doesn't emulate GB and GBC BIOSes. It doesn't have piano roll functionality (TAStudio or TAS Editor) while instead both BizHawk and lsnes do. There are more issues I can't remember right now, and probably even more on top. Last GB/C submission with VBA-rr was from 7 years ago, but I wonder if anyone is still using it today for TASing. Do you know of anyone? Or do you think there is any reason why anyone could be still needing it? Did anyone ever use VBA-rr on Linux? From what I could gather, the reason why there are still some people using VBA-rr for GBA TASing today, it's because they can't use BizHawk, due to having very old PCs. But that should never become a problem for GB/C TASing, as there is still lsnes as an alternative available for that, which also works on Linux. While I consider console verification to be a staple on TASVideos, everyone in the staff agrees that any decision about this matter should be up to the community. So vote, share your opinion, ask questions, and discuss about anything that you think about it!
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Alyosha
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Editor, Expert player (3520)
Joined: 11/30/2014
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Yes, VBA-rr should no longer be accepted. But, the same also goes for most older versions of BizHawk, and lsnes, if accuracy is the main deciding factor. Especially with 2.8, it seems time to deprecate most older BizHawk releases (and not just for GB/C.)
Judge, Skilled player (1278)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy
Alyosha wrote:
Yes, VBA-rr should no longer be accepted. But, the same also goes for most older versions of BizHawk, and lsnes, if accuracy is the main deciding factor. Especially with 2.8, it seems time to deprecate most older BizHawk releases (and not just for GB/C.)
It makes sense, but it's not as simple. First of all BizHawk is a multi-platform emulator. Here we're proposing to ban VBA-rr, and it would be only for GB and GBC, because chances are that virtually everyone would agree, since last submission was from 7 years ago. First of all, it would be mandatory to maintain BizHawk 1.x versions for XP/32bit compatibility. And regardless, let's first see how it goes for VBA-rr. There is no need to rush about this, while on the other hand it would be wise to make sure we're meeting the user's necessities.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Warepire
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Editor
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
First of all, it would be mandatory to maintain BizHawk 1.x versions for XP/32bit compatibility. And regardless, let's first see how it goes for VBA-rr. There is no need to rush about this, while on the other hand it would be wise to make sure we're meeting the user's necessities.
How relevant are 32 bit systems today? Even linux distros are dropping support. And anyone running XP should really not let their computer on the internet anymore, even most modern security software won't run on XP, so anyone with such an installation today that can reach the internet should just assumed it's been compromised.
Memory
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I would be careful dropping support for earlier versions of bizhawk. Some N64 games emulate better on older versions than current (DK64 comes to mind).
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Fortranm
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Editor, Experienced player (775)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1112
Alyosha wrote:
But, the same also goes for most older versions of BizHawk, and lsnes, if accuracy is the main deciding factor.
Isn't lsnes still the only one capable of making subframe inputs for SNES? How is SGB emulation via the bSNESv115 core compared to the composite SGB emulation in lsnes?
Emulator Coder, Judge, Experienced player (595)
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lsnes is indeed still the only SNES TAS emu capable of subframe input. Although it wouldn't be "hard" to add that BizHawk really (the baseline functionality is in, it would just be hooking everything up). SGB emulation in lsnes is really only "good" with the BSNES+Gambatte combo. Which is essentially the same SNES emulation quality to the older BSNES core in BizHawk and the same GB emulation quality as BizHawk 2.2.1 and below Gambatte (before PSR took over BizHawk-Gambatte development / lacking in sinamas' 2019 updates to Gambatte). It's not terrible, decent I'd say, although it's unlikely to spit out many console verifications, besides for games that don't care initial timing is just wrong.
Fortranm
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Editor, Experienced player (775)
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It has been almost 3 months. Would it be reasonable for a decision to be made at this point?
Samsara
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Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2120)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2792
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It's official now. The parser won't be deprecated or anything, but VBA-rr is no longer allowed for GB/C publications.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | Cohost
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You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
BigBoct
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Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
Late on the draw, but how about a sticky in the GB/C forum indicating the disallowment? Like there is in the SNES forum for the disallowment for SNES9X 1.43.
Previous Name: boct1584
Site Admin, Skilled player (1235)
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BigBoct wrote:
how about a sticky in the GB/C forum indicating the disallowment?
Where is it?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
BigBoct
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Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
feos wrote:
BigBoct wrote:
how about a sticky in the GB/C forum indicating the disallowment?
Where is it?
There isn't one. I was saying there should be.
Previous Name: boct1584
Site Admin, Skilled player (1235)
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Doesn't feel right to create a subforum with just a single thread about something being banned.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Emulator Coder, Judge, Experienced player (595)
Joined: 2/26/2020
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Location: California
I assume they mean this subforum: https://tasvideos.org/Forum/Subforum/19