(Link to video)
New improvements!
So I found new time saving techniques and a better way to manipulate RNG, that's why I decided to make a new TAS.
This is an improvement of 70 frames, 45 frames from better gameplay and 25 frames from closing all the dialoge cutscenes quicker (by new technique).
The player must find out the grenade guy (who is captured in some random doors) in each level, without it the cutscene of blowing up the final blockade won't appear and you will not be able to finish that level.
Some doors are in your way and don't need any extra distance to travel so you always want the grenade guy in those doors and that is the reason why you are not done after TASing a level in this game.
So there is an extra jump in the end of level 1 in my current TAS and I was trying to find a way to reduce that jump and after trying different sorts of things I reduced that jump but as I said above that after TASing each level you will have to see which grenade guy door you are getting in the next level and here I was getting the wrong door so I TASed the 1st level multiple times and the dialoge cutscene after it too and there I observed that even after maintaining the same speed in level 1 the level 2 is starting a little late and sometimes a little early by few frames.
This is the first new trick I found, in this trick you can be lucky and close the dialoge cutscenes few frames faster! What you do is first of all you simply optimise/TAS a level and then TAS the dialoge cutscenes too and note the the first frame of next level then go back and do some changes in the level while trying not to loose time then TAS the cutscenes again and note the first frame of next level again, Using this trick you can gain benefit of few frames.
Here is level by level improvements detail:
Level 1 : found no improvements here
Level 2 : no improvements but managed to start level 2 four frames faster by new trick
Level 3 : found 4 frames of improvement here, In previous TAS I stopped for 1 frame in this level but now there is no need to stop anywhere because I reached this level even quicker so enemy behaviour has changed and that's why there is a different route taken in level 3, this route is equally fast as previous run but this time I had to take this route because of changed RNG or whatever it is.
Level 4 : here I again took different route which is equally fast as the route taken in previous TAS, the damage trick I used this time in level 4 was not applicable in my previous TAS but it is now so I used this trick, I also reduced two jumps here, also found 2 frames of improvement from better movement ( 12 frames of improvement).
Level 5 : found 12 frames of improvement here too, 3 frames from better movement and 1 jump reduced in the end, also there is a lag intensive area in level 5 so I improved it too.
Level 6 : no improvements here .
Level 7 : found 11 frames of improvement here, 1 frame of improvement from better movment and later this one frame of improvement became 2 frames of improvement probably because of sub-pixel management then later gained few more frames from faster movement.
Level 8 : 4 frames of improvement here, I completly changed the gameplay here because movement used in previous run was not applicable here.
Also I found 2 frames of improvement in the final boss fight.
This was my first favorite game, I played it a lot in childhood, I have even played this game in my dreams too, this game was titled as "Ningen heiki - Dead fox" in the NES cartridge which I have, Now I play it in PC only with emulator (FCEUX).

ThunderAxe31: Claiming for judging.
ThunderAxe31: Accepting as improvement over the current publication.

despoa: Processing...

TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #8078: Pankaj's NES Code Name: Viper in 10:46.80
LoganTheTASer
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pankaj strikes again! i’ve been looking forward to this improvement! yes vote.
Pankaj
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LogansGamingRoom wrote:
pankaj strikes again! i’ve been looking forward to this improvement! yes vote.
ThankYou Logan
XTREMAL93
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Congrats again! But why FCEUX instead of Bizhawk ?)
Pankaj
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XTREMAL93 wrote:
Congrats again! But why FCEUX instead of Bizhawk ?)
Thanks, when I first time installed FCEUX it was the only emulator I know of so I used it are there any reasons for which I should use Bizhawk ?
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Pankaj wrote:
XTREMAL93 wrote:
Congrats again! But why FCEUX instead of Bizhawk ?)
Thanks, when I first time installed FCEUX it was the only emulator I know of so I used it are there any reasons for which I should use Bizhawk ?
Yes there is a reason. FCEUX doesn't emulate NES faithfully, so movies made on it can't be reproduced on real console. BizHawk movies instead can be reproduced on real console. This is important in this case, because the level of TAS optimization for this game is getting to a point where minor emulation differences set a line between faithful and unfaithful emulation. You're still allowed to use FCEUX, but I really wish you started using BizHawk. I've already seen enough controversy about the validity of records for this game...
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Dimon12321
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Why do enter a password at the beginning? Or is it a cutscene?
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
LoganTheTASer
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Dimon12321 wrote:
Why do enter a password at the beginning? Or is it a cutscene?
1. it skips the opening cutscene to save time 2. it unlocks a secret difficulty, which is the hardest in the game. using the hardest difficulty is preferred.
Pankaj
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Yes there is a reason. FCEUX doesn't emulate NES faithfully, so movies made on it can't be reproduced on real console. BizHawk movies instead can be reproduced on real console. This is important in this case, because the level of TAS optimization for this game is getting to a point where minor emulation differences set a line between faithful and unfaithful emulation. You're still allowed to use FCEUX, but I really wish you started using BizHawk. I've already seen enough controversy about the validity of records for this game...
Oh this is a serious concern then, I am excited to try out Bizhawk
Pankaj
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LogansGamingRoom wrote:
Dimon12321 wrote:
Why do enter a password at the beginning? Or is it a cutscene?
1. it skips the opening cutscene to save time 2. it unlocks a secret difficulty, which is the hardest in the game. using the hardest difficulty is preferred.
and plus it doesn't skip any gameplay content
Bigbass
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
FCEUX doesn't emulate NES faithfully, so movies made on it can't be reproduced on real console. BizHawk movies instead can be reproduced on real console.
If by reproduced, you mean being able to succesfully replay a movie on real hardware, then that's not accurate. Movies made with FCEUX have been verified on real hardware. This even includes very old movies such as [905] NES Dizzy the Adventurer by alden in 07:49.67 published in 2007 and made using FCEU 0.98.16; albeit it depends on the game. Statistically speaking, BizHawk does appear to have a higher success chance though. Using only my own test results (in number of movies):
EmulatorVerifiedDesyncedPass % per Emu
FCEUX8811942.5%
BizHawk363650.0%
Note the sample size for BizHawk is significantly smaller primarily because for awhile after I first started attempting verifications, dumping inputs on BizHawk on Linux was quite slow and tedious. I know some of the desynced FCEUX movies have since been verified by Alyosha, often because it was resynced to BizHawk. Additionally, some movies from both emulators, would desync because they required WRAM initialization, which I don't have the hardware to do. That all said, it does appear that BizHawk, particularly Alyosha's NESHawk core, tends to enable higher chances of verifications than FCEUX. Plus, I know that Alyosha also has spent time emulating specific quirks that previously prevented some games from being verified, regardless which emulator was used. Regardless, movies made with FCEUX do have a decent chance of verifying on hardware.
TAS Verifications | Mastodon | Github | Discord: @bigbass
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Thank you for your informations, but in this specific case it doesn't matter, because Alyosha already confirmed that for Code Name Viper, movies made with BixHawk do sync on real console, while FCEUX don't.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Alyosha
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This game seems to keep popping up. Yeah coincidentally ThunderAxe31 sent me a short (completing 2 levels) test run of this game made in NESHawk about a week ago to try on console, and indeed it did work. I tried this current run just now, and after 12 trials, the furthest it got was the end of level 4. So by that measure ThunderAxe31's test run wasn't long enough to say anything definitive. One of the things to keep in mind with NES games, and especially MMC3 games like this one, is that console verification is probabilistic. The NES has several uncontrollable start up variables, not even including uninitialized RAM, so you might have to try numerous times to get a success. For timing sensitive games the probability can be around 1/8. So far uninitialized RAM doesn't seem to be an issue here, ThunderAxe31's run behaves the same with initial RAM state all 0's or all F's. I would need a complete run made in NESHawk (Bizhawk version 2.8) to say anything more definitive. I think Bigbass' data suffers from using a lot of old runs. I only do console testing with BizHawk version 2.8, which contains numerous accuracy updates to NESHawk. My success rate for console verification of TASes in this setting is 58/63. Maybe I miscounted one or two but it's around 90%. Also worth noting that the failures aren't due to any known cause, or in other words not due to any known emulation deficiency (NESHawk does get some edge cases wrong, but I'm pretty sure these aren't the cause of the failures.) On the other hand there are numerous deficiencies in FCEUX that may result in failure on console. Obviously most games are still playable, so they aren't relying on careful timing to begin with, so many TASes made in FCEUX will still work on console. Anyway, if you want your run to have the best chance of working on console, you should use NESHawk (on BizHawk version 2.8 or later.)
Pankaj
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I'm currently using NESHawk (BizHawk 2.8), will definately try to make a new TAS on BizHawk but not any sooner. So far I tried converting this fm2 into bk2 and shifted the inputs 1 frame earlier (as BizHawk power on 1 frame sooner than FCEUX) and it desyncs because you get different grenade guy door in level 1.
Alyosha
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Pankaj wrote:
I'm currently using NESHawk (BizHawk 2.8), will definately try to make a new TAS on BizHawk but not any sooner. So far I tried converting this fm2 into bk2 and shifted the inputs 1 frame earlier (as BizHawk power on 1 frame sooner than FCEUX) and it desyncs because you get different grenade guy door in level 1.
There is an extra lag frame after pressing start to go to the password screen, so you even though you can delete a frame at the start, you have to add one in again around frame 55. This should get you through level 1. I was able to get up to level 4 just by comparing lag frames, but then it desyncs with the door to get the bomb being empty. I don't know how that RNG works so couldn't fix it, but resyncing seems doable.
Alyosha
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https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638138923631475487 Here is a resync of this run that works on BizHawk 2.8 This version is console verified, so that question is resolved. I didn't make an encode as this probably isn't the final version. I lost a bit of time (~15 frames) on level 6, mostly at the end of the level. Maybe Pankaj can improve it.
Pankaj
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Thanks to Alyosha for verifying and syncing this run, so I have improved level 6 by 15 or 16 frames and ended the work right after that as I am on a break from TASing can't really consider working on it again any sooner but my next TAS would be a bk2 movie for sure, I don't know which grenade guy I am getting in level 7 after these 16 frames as my goal was to ensure that improving 15 frames on level 6 was possible, I have noticed that BizHawk gives you extra lag in some lag intensive areas.
XTREMAL93
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Pankaj wrote:
Thanks to Alyosha for verifying and syncing this run, so I have improved level 6 by 15 or 16 frames and ended the work right after that as I am on a break from TASing can't really consider working on it again any sooner but my next TAS would be a bk2 movie for sure, I don't know which grenade guy I am getting in level 7 after these 16 frames as my goal was to ensure that improving 15 frames on level 6 was possible, I have noticed that BizHawk gives you extra lag in some lag intensive areas.
You can manipulate grenade guy's location. https://tasvideos.org/Forum/Topics/1481 CLChambers00 from Youtube: "Man with grenade's location changes every frame. It cycles through the locations. So if you finish stage one on a certain frame then the bomb guy will show up in a certain location, and if you finish one frame later then he will show up in the next location in the cycle. The first location is based upon the frame you enter the map screen which is not possible to buffer through text, and yes the second level spawn is based on the frame you end level one. "
Pankaj
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XTREMAL93 wrote:
You can manipulate grenade guy's location. https://tasvideos.org/Forum/Topics/1481 CLChambers00 from Youtube: "Man with grenade's location changes every frame. It cycles through the locations. So if you finish stage one on a certain frame then the bomb guy will show up in a certain location, and if you finish one frame later then he will show up in the next location in the cycle. The first location is based upon the frame you enter the map screen which is not possible to buffer through text, and yes the second level spawn is based on the frame you end level one. "
Thanks, I have read the forum topics you linked, I already know of two different methods to manipulate grenade guy's location, So yeah changing grenade door is not an issue for me anymore.
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [5166] NES Code Name: Viper by Pankaj in 10:46.80