Post by dekutony

Posted: 8/29/2022 9:47 PM

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Memory

She/Her

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ah I figured it was just overkill in order to avoid 666M which I do know to be specifically avoided.

[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours

[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero

Posted: 9/7/2022 9:59 PM
(Edited: 9/10/2022 1:13 AM)

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Fortranm

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I had some thoughts regarding the categorization and listing of G&W games and maybe this is a good time to bring this up here now that #7631: Darkman425's GBA Game & Watch Gallery 4 "Zelda" in 07:19.33 is getting published. Game & Watch Some time ago, I made all 3 existing non-Gallery G&W entries use the naming format of "Game & Watch: [game name]" and put existing non-Gallery G&W submissions and publications under them regardless of what system or game they are played on and list those under Game Versions instead. The reasoning was that those different iterations are more or less meant to be near identical to each other and it's ultimately the same game that's being played on different consoles in different collections. Now, what's different about G&W Gallery games is that they have an overarching star collection system that eventually results in credit rolls, and that makes each of those included games that give stars similar in nature to individual games in games like Kirby Super Star and not so much a completely independent game. For that reason it generally makes more sense to put movies made on Galley games under those games themselves, be it a credit triggering movie of the Gallery game itself or a movie of one of those individual games that grant stars. (The acceptability of these movies is a different topic that is not inherently related to this one.) However, some of the Gallery games also include unlockable G&W games that do not give starts. In other words, they are effectively their own thing and not part of the overarching collection system that leads to a credit scroll in some way. In this sense, movies recorded with those games on Gallery titles aren't of partial game content of a bigger process. So, would it be reasonable to treat movies recorded on those individual games on G&W Gallery titles that do not contribute to the collection system the same way other G&W releases are treated when it comes to game categorization?

Posted: 9/16/2022 1:57 PM

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feos

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We don't have to group together games versions that don't obsolete one another. And assigning the official name to a game makes it easy to find IMO, and if that's not easy enough, we will have game relations. I think it's better to indicate ports by that being a game relation than by making up game names on our own. However we don't have a perfectly agreeable and clear system for multigames of different sorts: sometimes you choose a game them from the main menu, sometimes you just hit reset, sometimes the game is the same but you can select modes or episodes. We tried to come up with some system but it still feels kinda random and I don't think we ever documented it.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 11/29/2022 10:42 AM

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feos

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There's been some progress in what to do with game versions that have their own branches. Title overrides are now displayed in branch tab titles if branch labels are the same. https://tasvideos.org/1466G

But now there's also a question of how do we want to name non-USA versions of games. Previously the USA name had to be used even if the movie is made on the Japanese version, to make the movie easier to find. But that was only a problem when navigation was movie based. With game based navigation, you can now have different aliases attached to the game, and user will be able to find it. And non-USA movies still link back to the game they belong to. https://tasvideos.org/140G So do we still need to care what "THE definitive default" USA version is called, and use that name for all other versions? Or maybe each version can now be called according to its release title (barring actual Japanese spelling)?

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 2/25/2023 12:37 AM

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CoolKirby

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Joined: 11/8/2010
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feos wrote:

So do we still need to care what "THE definitive default" USA version is called, and use that name for all other versions? Or maybe each version can now be called according to its release title (barring actual Japanese spelling)?

If I understood you right, this would change each movie's title to the name of the ROM it uses. I worry that this would negatively affect some games that are usually run on the Japanese version, like The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, but are much better known by their English title. The title, searchable on YouTube, would then become "N64 Zelda no Densetsu - Toki no Ocarina", which may not be as easily findable; although, it could work as long as the run comes up when the alias is searched for. Version-sensitive naming would, however, resolve confusion like I saw once in a TVC YouTube comment asking why a Famicom game TAS wasn't labeled with its (romanized) Japanese title. (As an aside, I wouldn't think Japanese viewers would be searching the romanized title anyway. On Nicovideo, titles of games are generally written in Japanese glyphs.)

Posted: 2/25/2023 7:13 AM

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feos

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CoolKirby wrote:

If I understood you right, this would change each movie's title to the name of the ROM it uses. I worry that this would negatively affect some games that are usually run on the Japanese version, like The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, but are much better known by their English title. The title, searchable on YouTube, would then become "N64 Zelda no Densetsu - Toki no Ocarina", which may not be as easily findable; although, it could work as long as the run comes up when the alias is searched for.

Makes sense.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/21/2023 10:46 AM

Post subject: Re: dekutony's report

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CoolKirby

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dekutony wrote:

I don't know if this is the right place to post this

This is the right place. Thanks for your report and time-saving links; I've fixed those game pages. Let us know if any other ones need a fix.

dekutony wrote:

it inmedeately stuck out to me as... odd.

I think someone just forgot to finish filling in the information for Game Day. And the EPF mixup was understandable with their similar titles.

Posted: 7/5/2023 2:40 AM
(Edited: 7/5/2023 2:42 AM)

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Randomno

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I've been cataloging user files for the past few days and only now have looked through this thread. The wiki could do with better documentation of the nuances because I don't really care to read multiple forum pages of back-and-forth to find answers. The "Name" field in the Game Version should be "File name". When cataloging I've been doing the bare minimum necessary to add the system (copying the game name and leaving the region as U, unless I know it was only released in a certain region). For sorting, I'm more used to ignoring "The". The site could support this by having a separate sort name. For a Wikipedia example, The Simpsons: Bart vs. the World has a default sort key option like

{{DEFAULTSORT:Simpsons: Bart vs. the World}}

which will sort it that way in all the categories it's in. There's also an additional

[[Category:Video games based on The Simpsons|Bart vs. The World]]

so that specific category will sort it in that way (having every Simpsons game sorted by Simpsons would be unhelpful). Whichever way, the inconsistencies with "The Game" and "Game, The" should be removed. I don't know of a good way to search for existing examples of the latter.

Posted: 7/5/2023 4:57 PM

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feos

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Randomno wrote:

The "Name" field in the Game Version should be "File name". When cataloging I've been doing the bare minimum necessary to add the system (copying the game name and leaving the region as U, unless I know it was only released in a certain region).

Please send us a pull request. Not sure about the rest tho.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 7/5/2023 6:28 PM

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Randomno

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Sorry my tone was a bit off before. Might look into the PR

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