The Way of the Exploding Fist is a karate simulation. You can choose to compete against the computer or a human player. When fighting against the computer you have each only one live. When reaching full two points, you will win the fight. After the time has run out the referee decides who has won. After two won fights you get into the next arena of which there are altogether four. Your "skill" then rises from NOVICE to 1st Dan and so on. The computer enemy gets correspondingly stronger. -C64 Wiki
As with all my TASes, I always do a full run through, mainly as a Test TAS. During that experience, new techniques are always discovered. Afterwards, the real work begins...where I start from scratch and do the entire TAS with my gained knowledge. I have to say, this TAS was a surprise...in regards to the difficulty. Trying to trick the CPU into failing, was incrasingly difficult as the levels increase.
Ending Choice
The game starts on "Novice" and stops increasing once it gets to "10th Dan". Because each level is fought twice, the 10th Dan is also done twice to complete the uniqueness of the game. Thereafter, it remains on 10.
AI, Not RNG
This is one of the rare games where the CPU is strictly driven by an AI algorithm. In fact, this AI is so strong that it took quite a while to find an optimal solution on the later levels. There are times where every move I could make, does nothing. So the trick was trying to get some routines to execute and confuse the CPU into executing a move, so that I can counter it. Usually this is done during the advancement toward the opponent. Some times there are delays, while other tricks included pressing random directions to get the computer to do something that allows me to exploit a win.
Darkman425: As a note, the given game version doesn't match the hash of the input file but still synced fine.
I saw a lot of different varieties to get the full points needed for the win in each bout. Understandable since later opponents would require a bit more AI wrangling to cooperate in a swift manner. Nice work!
Accepting to Standard.
Darkman425: Due to me not catching a PAL/NTSC issue and by author request, setting this to delayed to allow them to fix the issue.
nymx: Resynced against an NTSC version. Bye Bye Mr Bull. :(
Darkman425: Special thanks to fsvgm777 for catching something I overlooked in judging. Now that it's been resynced on a proper NTSC version and I've verified sync, setting this back to accepted.
fsvgm777: Replacing movie file with one that fixes the SHA1 hash in the BK2 to properly reflect the version change, and processing.
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 929
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Here is a comparison of my first and final effort.
Link to video
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
So...I think I spotted a major issue with this TAS, unfortunately. Namely, the disk image of a PAL version was run in NTSC mode. I've found a few USA disk images and the main difference with them is that they read "and distributed in the USA by UXB" while loading. Naturally, these desync on the first fight.
...However, I spotted a graphical glitch just below the player's belt, which did not appear in the disk images I initially found. So I managed to grab the syncing image with the hashes provided by Darkman425, ran it in PAL mode, and.... no glitching.
This leaves me to conclude that, unfortunately, the PAL ROM was run in NTSC mode.
Here are some screenshots:
PAL:
NTSC:
PAL-in-NTSC:
If needed, I can also provide videos.
We’ve had a policy on C64 TASes for a while that allows for PAL games to be run in NTSC mode so long as glitches aren’t introduced.
But it does appear that a glitch has been introduced in this case. So, I’d encourage nymx to redo this game using the NTSC version.
For now: if nymx’s inputs synced when used in in PAL mode, I’d recommend publishing that PAL mode run and then obsoleting with the NTSC version when/if it gets made (assuming its faster).
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 929
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
DrD2k9 wrote:
We’ve had a policy on C64 TASes for a while that allows for PAL games to be run in NTSC mode so long as glitches aren’t introduced.
Are we talking about any glitches or glitches that affect game play?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 929
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I'm requesting that this be put on "Delayed".
I'll go ahead and try to sync this up with an NTSC Rom....most likely by redoing all the inputs. The last run-through that I did, took about 3 days. So it will not be long.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Are we talking about any glitches or glitches that affect game play?
My perspective on the graphical glitches when TASing C64 in a different region settings:
If a game doesn't have them, and there's no other apparent glitches; then the game appears to work fine in both regions, and playing in NTSC is fine even if it was a PAL release.
If a game does have graphical glitches, then that's at least one indicator that other potential issues may be present with playing in the 'wrong' region (even if we don't know of or have evidence of any other glitches).
If no glitches are apparent, we can't assume there are issues with cross regional play. If glitches are apparent, we know there are issues with cross regional play (even if they are limited to graphical only).
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 929
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
DrD2k9 wrote:
nymx wrote:
Are we talking about any glitches or glitches that affect game play?
My perspective on the graphical glitches when TASing C64 in a different region settings:
If a game doesn't have them, and there's no other apparent glitches; then the game appears to work fine in both regions, and playing in NTSC is fine even if it was a PAL release.
If a game does have graphical glitches, then that's at least one indicator that other potential issues may be present with playing in the 'wrong' region (even if we don't know of or have evidence of any other glitches).
If no glitches are apparent, we can't assume there are issues with cross regional play. If glitches are apparent, we know there are issues with cross regional play (even if they are limited to graphical only).
Just one more thing to note. A lot of C64 games perform "Raster Interrupts" on screen drawings. I have a few games that do this, but it is not a glitch...its just hard to time those situations so that the screen can be drawn the way the author intended. I wonder if that is the case here, since we see a slither for about 2 blocks of display.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Are we talking about any glitches or glitches that affect game play?
My perspective on the graphical glitches when TASing C64 in a different region settings:
If a game doesn't have them, and there's no other apparent glitches; then the game appears to work fine in both regions, and playing in NTSC is fine even if it was a PAL release.
If a game does have graphical glitches, then that's at least one indicator that other potential issues may be present with playing in the 'wrong' region (even if we don't know of or have evidence of any other glitches).
If no glitches are apparent, we can't assume there are issues with cross regional play. If glitches are apparent, we know there are issues with cross regional play (even if they are limited to graphical only).
Just one more thing to note. A lot of C64 games perform "Raster Interrupts" on screen drawings. I have a few games that do this, but it is not a glitch...its just hard to time those situations so that the screen can be drawn the way the author intended. I wonder if that is the case here, since we see a slither for about 2 blocks of display.
I already brought this up with nymx on discord, but leaving it here so other's can see the thought process:
If it could be proven that the graphical issues also occur in NTSC mode due to this raster drawing situation, then we could argue that the glitch wasn't introduced solely due to cross region play.
In this case, however, it sounds like they don't appear in NTSC mode.
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 929
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I finally have some news on this situation. Finally got an NTSC disk image. After reviewing the situation, my original inputs actually sync up with the new version. The only difference is that I had to inject about 20 frames to get the movie lined up.
There is one major difference here. The Bull is not in this version, but the graphical glitch is gone, so I can get this new movie finished up tomorrow. But before I do, I want to ask if there is a still a chance to keep the original submission "As-Is", since we are only talking about that display glitch. I would hate that the bull is gone.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 929
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
despoa wrote:
Is the PAL version of the game the only one with the Bull or is there another NTSC version that has it?
I don't know. Honestly, the version I played back then never had it. When I saw it, I thought that I never got that far. Now I know why.
If a cracked version had it, I think I would rather stick with a clean version. These cracks drive me insane.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
I finally have some news on this situation. Finally got an NTSC disk image. After reviewing the situation, my original inputs actually sync up with the new version. The only difference is that I had to inject about 20 frames to get the movie lined up.
There is one major difference here. The Bull is not in this version, but the graphical glitch is gone, so I can get this new movie finished up tomorrow. But before I do, I want to ask if there is a still a chance to keep the original submission "As-Is", since we are only talking about that display glitch. I would hate that the bull is gone.
Keeping the original submitted inputs would be fine if we publish it using PAL mode, but not NTSC (as they were submitted) due to the introduced glitch.
Regarding the 20 extra frames for the actual NTSC version: if inputs sync otherwise, I’d expect framerate difference to make up for those 20 frames and still have the NTSC version be faster actual time.
It would be a bit of a bummer to lose the bull.
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 929
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
At first, when I saw that my inputs synced...it only did so before the bull showed up. This other version that I'm working in, doesn't have the bull. Well, the manipulation of the AI has gotten to the point where it is not as optimized. I'm going to have to lay back and think about this. I may go for running this in PAL mode, but for now...I'm taking a one day break.
Please keep this on "Delayed", as I'm going to replace this with another movie as soon as I can.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 929
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Ok. Thankfully, these inputs synced very easily...except for one round. I'll replace, probably tomorrow. I want to review them first.
but! before I submit, I'm curious as to the idea of two submissions...One for NTSC and one for PAL. That way, we would have the bull back in it.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
.2024-05-11%2013.49.40.png)
NTSC:
PAL-in-NTSC:
If needed, I can also provide videos.
