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Posted: 12/21/2022 8:32 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
A quick note today. For the time being, I think I will at least get GT1 as low as possible before transitioning to GT2 on the "All Levels" (Warpless) Category. I'll of course keep my primary focus on Any% until I can post up a good 6:53 or 6:52. But after that, I will try to make a good final version of the GT1 setup, and update the Spliced Compilation Video, and possibly give GT1 one last good run, before I start to learn the new route with GT2. One main point of concern for GT1 was that the better setup left the partial button scramble. But I remembered today that I can reset buttons without wasting any time by waiting until mandatory Select Menu pause. So I can roll that into the route at the end of Level 2, or perhaps more conveniently, during the death music at the Level 3 checkpoint clip. Since I need to re-record the Level 3 clip video anyway, I might go ahead and do button reset during the Level 3 video, for documentation. We'll see how motivated I'm feeling! :P
Posted: 12/28/2022 4:52 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I'll mention quickly that I prepared a 1080p60 video from the most recent TAS file (with no Level 17 reset). BizHawk encoded the video at 60.098476 fps, so it's very close to running at true console speed. From first frame of Level 1 thru first frame of Select Menu after Prince crosses the finish line on Level 20, there's a total of 24,432 frames, which gives the latest TAS an RTA equivalent time of 6:46.53049. I noticed that you were able to get the faster 4 frame pull-up of Select Menu there at the end of Level 20. So the new route eventually saved a couple more RTA frames that way. It also appears that the alternate route saved 1 more frame on that first Level 19 gate, compared to the previous test TAS, which had improved level 19 but not yet adding the Level 17 improvement. So the Level 17 improvement has rearranged the various lag errors, and created an optimal situation for levels 19 and 20, for RTA purposes. This sure is looking pretty solid now! Unless you come up with any more ideas, I think this is really close to being ready for publication!
Posted: 5/13/2023 8:10 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I'm getting back into practicing for a 6:55 run or better. As a part of that practice and warming up, I made a fun meme video of beating the game in 6:32 with the Game Genie Code for No Gates. For the entire route here, every segment, every room, every gate skip, is a combination of previously used strategies for either Gate Thief #1 or Fat Gate Thief. So in a sense, this is kind of a fun "What If" video, considering the possibilities for the main speedrunnning & tas'ing category, if only this particular Warp Glitch had given us an optimal Gate Thief sprite, instead of our Guard & Skeleton sprite! From first frame of Level 1 until first frame of Select Menu at the end of Level 20, we have approximately 23,613 console frames = 6:32.9029288380952380952. I counted about 1.9 seconds worth of mistakes & inaccuracies. Lost 25 frames on setup, 19 frames on Level 17 Reset, 22 frames on conservative log crouches, and 47 frames bonking the wall after Level 18 boss. So it looks like a 6:30.x is doable, but not entirely sure if there's a full second worth of savings elsewhere to bring this meme route down below 6:30. Would be fun to see, but I'm sure Challenger has more important things to do than make Game Genie TAS's! XD Link to video
Posted: 5/25/2023 5:40 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Today, I did 1 attempt at new world record, and luckily got it. World's First Sub-7 Minute RTA Speedrun on original hardware. I turned around 1 frame early on the 2nd gate of Level 18 to bonk and lose 1.76 seconds, and I jumped 1 frame early through the 1st gate of Level 19 to come up short and fall through the loose panel to lose 2.71 seconds. Also, for whatever reason, I thought I had previously done a lag test which concluded that it didn't matter when you kill the 1st guard of Level 16. However, I was very much mistaken, and picked up 24 extra lag frames on Level 16 by waiting to kill the guard later. Very silly! Altogether, about 4.87 seconds lost on those 3 silly mistakes. Everything else was fairly clean and consistent. 25,199 console frames = 6:59.2928007365. And without those mistakes, would have been around 6:54.434. So I think a 6:54.x is definitely in the cards soon, if I can get a good run without such mistakes. Then I can start working on doing all double-crouches on Level 17 instead of the more conservative triple-crouches, and clean up a few spots and fast menus, which should get down into 6:53.x territory! Link to video
Posted: 5/26/2023 7:10 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I've discovered an interesting difference between my video recordings of my TV, compared to BizHawk videos captured during TAS playback. Whenever the Prince goes to his final position upon touching the finish line on Level 20, the BizHawk videos initiate the temporary soundtrack silence either 0.4 or 1.4 frames BEFORE then. This silence lasts for a couple of frames, as the system is preparing to load the "End of Level" music. For example, if the Prince enters his final position at 7:13.1001 on the TAS video, the silence already started at 7:13.0768 according to the audio track, some 0.0234 seconds earlier. However, for all of my video recordings of my TV & Console, the silence begins later, either 1.4 or 2.4 frames AFTER the Prince has already made his final movement and touched the finish line. I'm curious to know why there's a difference. I might run a couple more short test videos of my TV and Console tomorrow, to see if anything different happens.
Posted: 6/12/2023 10:30 PM
(Edited: 6/12/2023 10:33 PM)
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I did a fun video experiment today. I turned my phone the other way around, so the video camera would scan the field upward, in the opposite direction as the TV, which draws lines in downward succession. This allowed for a much more exact timing method, as a very sharp line appears along the bottom of the tv's progress on the first frame of any new screen (after a black transition). Knowing the Camera scans upward at about 84 fps with this spacing I use, and the TV draws downward at 60.0988 fps, I can create extremely accurate timestamps for each frame at the beginning of any new level or new room. The following stats were created for the casual run I did today -- 01a -- 1043.0658602792248130640702961517 (1,043) 01b -- 1426.9198387923588977970200582312 (1,427) 16o -- 5327.9707817010477308323214201222 (5,328) 17a -- 0411.9668600694649619281509276644 (0,412) 17b -- 2349.9809092260973525559412297379 (2,350) 18a -- 3238.9765618005506523160692835483 (3,239) 18b -- 2520.9379530442107044246027809098 (2,521) 18c -- 2619.0024596632024311210355769718 (2,619) 19a -- 2863.9643307679543639315973561539 (2,864) 19b -- 2608.9013248476897089244094835002 (2,609) 20o -- 1706.1017647682818683977160161242 (1,706) You see for the most part, the timing (frame count) is slightly off, thanks to the inaccurate variable fps of the video. But it is close enough to say with certainty how many frames were in each segment. The raw total (time based) was 26117.78864496 frames, and the adjusted count was 26,118, which matches the pattern of "rounding up" that I always do in my videos. I think I will continue to record the way I always have, as this upside down method is more tedious, but definitely proves or reinforces that my timing has been correctly calculated in the past. I had to do a little bit of in depth observation and calculation to figure out exactly where the intersection line was for the final frame, as you can see in the picture below:
Posted: 6/20/2023 3:09 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
During a recent speedrun attempt, I tied the TAS exactly on Level 16. Counting from first frame of the Level through the first frame the Prince is touching the finish line: 3,997 console frames. I made a fun split-screen video, showing Challenger's most recent TAS on the left, and my Perfect Level 16 speedrun on the right! Link to video
Posted: 6/23/2023 12:49 AM
(Edited: 6/26/2023 4:12 PM)
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Another fun discovery today. "Invincibility Mode" is actually not invincibility at all. It's just a whole bunch of extra hidden bottles on the meter. What I've been referring to as "Invincibility Mode #1", which is described as being able to survive 1 fatal hit without dying, is actually 160 extra bottles (off screen), which function exactly the same as normal bottles. Including the 15 bottles meter on screen, this gives a total health of 175 normal hits. IE, after you stand around and let a guard hit you 160 times, that 161st hit finally makes a change on screen, turning the 15th bottle dark, and leaving you with 14 more hits. Similarly, "Invincibility Mode #2" is actually 240 extra bottles off screen, for a total health of 255 normal hits. IE, if a guard hits you 240 times, or you fall down a 2 level gap 240 times, the next time you do it will make a difference to the on screen bottles. The important discovery is this: fatal hits don't have a special parameter that tells the game whether or not to kill you. They simply do more damage. 100 hits! So when you're in INV#1 with your 175 health, the first "fatal" hit does 100 damage, and leaves you with 75 health, not enough to survive another 100 damage. Whereas, if you have 240 hits, you can survive 2 separate "fatal" hits, and still have about 55 total health to work with. I have shown some setups where you can knock an overhanging loose panel, land on spikes, and then the falling panel hits you and returns you to a playable position (instead of being stuck on the spikes). In a case like this, you take 100 damage from the spikes, and an additional 1 damage from the falling panel, for a total of 101. If you do this process twice with INV#2, you have survived in a playable state, taken 202 damage, and have 53 remaining health, and can take another 38 normal hits from a guard without noticing any loss of health on the original 15 on screen bottles. The Crusher, the Chomps, the Spikes, the Sparkles, and being hit by a guard when your sword is put away, all do 100 damage. And falling from a height of 3 levels or more is also 100 damage. Fire Walls on Level 11 do 100 damage. Being stomped by the Monster on level 17 without your sword drawn is 100 damage. One possible exception to this rule, which cannot readily be tested, is Jaffar's attack when he lifts you in the air, and destroys you with a fireball. When I very quickly access Debug Menu, I can select "Boost Meter" to restore all of my health, and stay alive for another hit. But eventually, the hits overtake too quickly for my health reset attempts, and I die. I think if Challenger was able to run a test tas, you could enable debug menu, jump to Level 8, do the quick warp glitch off the ledge after the first guard to acquire Invincibility Mode #1 (160 invisible bottles), then jump to level 20, play jaffar, and let him do his air fireball killer move, and see if you can access Boost Meter on every frame, to see how long the TAS can stay alive. lol! I made some fun illustrations for the meters, below: INV#1 (160 extra bottles, 175 total health points): INV#2 (240 extra bottles, 255 total health points): .. I've also confirmed that in both cases (+160 and +240), large bottles, debug health boost, and merging with ghost will only refill existing meter to full status. These do not create extra meter count. Presumably, these are only programmed to increase meter count when there are less than 15 bottles onscreen. I can also report that in the past, I have done glitches where the Prince survives a fatal hit, and loses onscreen health meter. Previously, I thought it was some sort of broken setup, but now we can use new knowledge to suppose there is a setup which gives something like +95 invisible bottles, so there is enough total meter to survive the 100 hit points, but not enough to conceal the effects on the visible meter.
Posted: 6/23/2023 1:23 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
In other news, the "RTA" equivalent for Challenger's latest TAS has been reduced by 73 frames for now, given new wording for the RTA rules on the Speedrun Dot com website. Previously, the wording had been that RTA timing begins when the Player Gains Control of the Prince. I had been ignoring that language all these years, and simply began timing on the first frame of Level 1. It made sense to me, since timing for every other Level begins on the first frame of that level. Furthermore, several versions of the 1989 edition did the same thing where In Game Timing was not available, or was not official. In those instances, RTA timing also began on the first frame of level one. And in several of those versions (various consoles and computer formats), the Prince fell from the gate just like in the SNES version. However, many players have been interpreting the language of the SNES rules chaotically, with some starting time when the Prince touches the ground, and others starting timing when he first stands upright after landing. In an attempt to clear up all this confusion, I brought it to the MODs attention, and for now, they have latched onto the first frame the Prince is standing upright after the fall, rather than first frame of the level. I am attempting to discuss the matter further with the MODs, but in the meantime, the current RTA rules say Challenger's latest TAS is 73 frames shorter now, giving a new total of 24,359 console frames = 6:45.3158194 031746 031746 031746.
Posted: 9/12/2023 7:32 AM
(Edited: 9/12/2023 8:24 AM)
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I got a new World Record! -- 6:54.5672499. In honor of Suigi's infamous pause during the final bowser fight of his recent 70 star world record speedrun on super mario 64, I have allowed my own embarrassing pause moment to be published. I had a completely inexplicable brain fart that's never happened before. Early in Level 18, my mind just decided to go hit the Select Button. Fortunately, I was able to react quickly and unpause after just half a second. Altogether, the blunder cost 39 frames in real time, without which this run would have been low enough to break even another Second Barrier. My previous WR was a 656, so this 654 breaks 2 second barriers, going below 656 and 655 in one go. And this is, of course, in accordance with the Old Timing Standard. I have decided to disregard to recent rules change on Speedrun Dot Com, which starts timing literally when the player gains control, on the frame the Prince stands up straight after falling through the first gate. This new rules change flies in the face of the precedent set by many previous versions of the game on other systems which start out exactly the same, with the Prince falling through the first gate, landing and standing up. There, timing has begun on the First Frame of Level One when In Game Timer is not the official standard (not always available or reliable, depending on the version). Furthermore, due to random Lag Frames throughout the SNES version, the Prince sometimes stands up after 73 frames rather than after 72 frames. Following this discrepancy, the game may offer more lag to the 72's, and less lag to the 73's from that point forward, causing a discrepancy of up to 3 frames in just the first couple of rooms. Not at all fair or consistent for speedrunning, in my opinion. Therefore, for the foreseeable future, I will be submitting my times based on the First Frame of Level One, in protest of the rules change, and I will attempt to convince the MODs to revert the rules change. SO, this is a 654.5672499. Without the 39 frame pause blunder, this would have been a 653.918. I can see from this run that a 653 is easily within reach. However, it will take a lot more work to get a 652. But I'm encouraged by the progress thus far, and look forward to seeing what's next. I think once I get a 652, I'll be done with this category, and get back to work on my Warpless Sub-23 minute runs with GT1. Link to video
Posted: 9/12/2023 6:02 PM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
RTA update! The MODs on Speedrun Dot Com agreed with my thoughts on the timing rule, and have set the runs to begin on the First Frame of Level One.
Posted: 9/20/2023 9:14 PM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I've mentioned previously that I have been using an alternate method with my hands, when doing the Level 17 reset. Once my right hand is no longer needed during the approach to the spikes, I use my right thumb to hit Select, and as my left thumb has remained on the d-pad, I can much more quickly begin scrolling down the Select Menu towards the exit selection. Under normal circumstances, I've generally used my left thumb for Select, followed by a slight delay as my left thumb physically moves back to the d-pad. I've realized that I can use this same technique when doing the exit glitches on level 1 and level zero. The difficulty here is that I'm using the A button to hold onto the ledges, so my right thumb is preoccupied until the Prince begins the climbing animation. Therefore, I have a tight window to release A (no longer needed once the Prince begins climbing), and move my right thumb over to the Select Button during the 3-4 climb animations. But with correct timing, I am once again having the advantage of being able to keep my left thumb on the d-pad when it's time to navigate the select menu. Therefore, I am, on average, saving 3-5 frames on each of the 2nd and 3rd menu navigations, for a total of 6-10 frames of savings during the "Setup" segment of the sub-7 speedrun. If I'm able to record a new demo at 2,434 frames (10 frames better than my current demo), and able to consistently save this time during speedruns, this will be a much needed boost towards reaching my goal of a 6:52.x for RTA timing of a full speedrun.
Posted: 10/2/2023 10:09 PM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I am having some success with the new Select Button technique on the setup. So far, I've recorded one that's 8 frames faster on all parts combined. But I think there's a little more I can squeeze out of the last menu exit. So I'm gonna keep going, and see if I can get it up to a 10 or 12 frame total improvement before I upload the next video, and update my sum of best.
Posted: 10/19/2023 8:59 AM
(Edited: 10/19/2023 9:01 AM)
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I got it! A very clean recording that's 10 frames better than my previous best. The previously published best was 2,444 frames. This one is 2,434 frames = 40.499967 seconds. The main takeaway is that before I implemented this new technique of using my Right Thumb to hit Select during Exits #2 & #3, I was usually not even able to get 2,444. The old method of using the Left Thumb to hit Select, and then come all the way back to the d-pad, was very inconsistent, and full of delay & hesitation. I very rarely came within 5 or 6 frames of my best. But now that I'm using the new technique, it is very consistent, and I'm within 1-3 frames of my best on almost every attempt. So, in essence, this represents much more than a 10 frame improvement for actual speedrun attempts. More like a full quarter of a second, which will go a long way towards helping me reach my ultimate goal of a 6:52.x in this category. Link to video
Posted: 8/14/2024 9:15 PM
(Edited: 8/14/2024 9:21 PM)
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I'm still working on getting a 6:52. Life has just been really busy lately, and no time to devote serious attempts. But I may get back into it seriously soon. In the meantime, I'm also being distracted by a funny new development. I found a Game Genie code with ludicrous implications for the Best Times board. For comparison, I'll remind you of the GT1 + GT2 + FGT board from page 10, combining all of the best possible times with the use of Warp Glitches (Sprite Corruption) but WITHOUT the use of Game Genie codes. It is slightly outdated, as for instance level 17 has since been improved to 0:29. Now, feast your eyes upon this insanity!!! I may create a series of videos for this, even though it's just a silly Game Genie code, because the results are so crazy. I daresay, if ever Challenger was to consider making a Game Genie TAS, this would be the one! I left some of them blank, as there was essentially no potential for improvement. I just happened to complete levels 8 and 15 here, although they also seem to have no major advantage. I think perhaps level 8 could have a 1-2 second improvement if I take the time to polish it up. However, 1-2 seconds is small potatoes compared to the other devastating time saves. Lol.
Posted: 8/16/2024 8:53 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Wow, no one posted about the new Prince of Persia TAS in here, from 9 months ago! I had no idea until today, lol. Good grief! ========== Challenger! You didn't do the Sound Menu trick! The run could be almost another minute faster if switching to shorter musical cue at the end of each level, and at the beginning of Boss Fight on Level 19. In-game time has a minimum unit of 2 animations. Therefore, in at least half of the levels, you should be able to call Sound Menu + Select Menu at a cost of 1 animation, without losing the time unit. Furthermore, you may have a budget of up to 3-5 time units to spend throughout the run without affecting the displayed in-game clock totals. I think this is well worth the cost of insignificant loss of in-game time in exchange for almost 1 minute of real time, which will reduce the headline total below 32 minutes! ========== Also, I would remind you that not all lag frames should be chased. In almost all cases, individual rogue lag frames that cannot be explained have a corresponding anti-lag frame save in a different room to balance it out. I don't think you've been tracking this, since you don't arbitrarily compare different unique runs the way I do. I think it will be difficult or impossible to suppress certain lag frames without causing a corrective lag frame elsewhere, or losing a corresponding lag save elsewhere. ========== However, I must congratulate you on the latest efforts. I loved seeing the gate skips you've been working on! I'm curious to know if you have any thoughts about when the Any% (Exit Glitch) run should be published?
Posted: 8/17/2024 3:23 AM
(Edited: 8/30/2024 6:15 AM)
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Anyway.... >.> Back to the action!!! If you notice that 0:43 next to Level 11 on the new Best Times board, I'll have you know, the last two days have been a grueling struggle to save 1 more animation (half a time unit) to turn the clock over to 0:42 !!!! But I did it!! And what a relief! Every possible combination of jumps was tried, to coax different RNG results for the Fire Wall pattern. In fact, this was the only pattern that got me there! Most other levels & videos, hilariously, took about 1-3 attempts. XD I have uploaded several, and will start sharing them here soon. But first, here's Level 11 !!!!! This video makes use of the Game Genie, and a code for removing Wall Collision, to a certain extent, and with some caveats that may become clear as I post more videos. Game Genie - No Walls - Level 11 - 0:42. Link to video Frame counts and time unit counts will have to come later, if I ever have a free day. P.S.: I'm working with a lamentably limited setup. Game Genies have limited compatibility with the New SNES Console (circa 1997), and at best can only enable 2 lines of code (entered on the 1st and 5th input lines). But while I have been able to use 2 codes on some games, like Super Mario World and SimCity, Prince of Persia is not allowing 2 codes. Therefore, I'm still stuck where I was before, with 1 code per session (before I realized that the 5th input line sometimes works). If we could use the "No Walls" AND "No Falls" codes in the same session, these routes could be made even more impressive! I suspect this would be doable on Emulator, or Old SNES Console.
Posted: 8/30/2024 6:05 AM
(Edited: 8/30/2024 6:13 AM)
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Level 11 was the most recent video I made. I've just been so busy lately, I didn't even have time to post the earlier videos. In particular, Levels 4 & 5 are devastating, as well as Levels 12 & 14. But the real monster is Level 13, over a minute faster than the best Gate Thief route! As I said before, it may be a while before I have time to sit down at the computer to do frame counts & time units, and consider any re-records. I've also got a good recording for Level 18, but it's a little rough. I'll post it later with the next batch of slightly less impressive Levels. Levels 3 and 18 actually do have some great shortcuts, but overall they're still a bit longer than the ones I'll share today. Without further delay, here's Levels 4 & 5, with 12, 13 & 14. . . Level 04 -- Game Genie -- "No Walls" -- 0:22 in-game clock display. Link to video . . Level 05 -- Game Genie -- "No Walls" -- 0:35 in-game clock display. Link to video . . Level 09 -- Game Genie -- "No Walls" -- 0:32 in-game clock display. Link to video . . Level 12 -- Game Genie -- "No Walls" -- 0:18 in-game clock display. Link to video . . Level 13 -- Game Genie -- "No Walls" -- 0:35 in-game clock display. Link to video . . Level 14 -- Game Genie -- "No Walls" -- 0:27 in-game clock display. Link to video . . Stay tuned for more soon! =)
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