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#5351: TASeditor, MESHUGGAH, CoolKirby, Masterjun, MUGG, was0x's NES Kirby's Adventure "game end glitch" in 00:35.76

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Submission Text Full Submission Page Publication Page

It's this little pink thing again.

Game objectives

Emulator used: FCEUX 2.2.3

Comments

It's an one frame improvement over the published run. The slope clip is improved. Everything else is unchanged. I (TASeditor) tried to improve other things as well by delaying and interupting certaing actions, but it didn't work out due to lag sadly. Here's is an userfile with these tests in second room, just in case.

For non glitched graphics change inputs from TLR to TDLR on last frame.

Now it is 9 frames faster than the current published run, thanks to better lag reduction due to interrupting movement.

First room

Don't interrupting by extending jump height at frame 603, 2 lag frames and 134 subpixel inproved at frame 888 when swallowing. At frame 1069 being 6:224 pixels ahead, due to delaying the running start and interupting movement in mid-air. 12:199 pixels ahead at frame 1229. 6 frames faster in this room.

Second room

Interrupting before sliding in order to go over the hill efficiently, this section is very laggy. ~2 pixels needed to be sacrificied at frame 1584 to not bumb into the Waddle Doo. At frame 1620 being 21:8 pixels ahead, thanks to better lag reduction on the hill. 3 frames faster in this room.

Last room

Not improved, due to the lag behaviour of the game.

Masterjun: Judg... no wait I'm an author dang it!

Nach: I'm not an author, judging.

TASeditor: Please update the submission with this file!

Nach: Replaced movie file.

Nach: It's now larger than a 1 frame improvement, and a nice one at that. Accepting.

Spikestuff: Publishing.

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Posted: 1/27/2017 12:16 AM

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Alyosha

He/Him

Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3809)

Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2828
Location: US

Nach wrote:

What's going on with this run? Is there a particular file it should be replaced with? Are you guys still working on an improvement? Do you want to cancel this for now and come back in a couple of weeks when you figure it out?

I'm not actively working on it, other things need to be sorted out first. A correctly emulated run that works on console is not on the horizon. I think TASEditor wanted to use this file:

Please update the submission with this 8 frame faster run: User movie #36341054517440931

Posted: 2/1/2017 2:47 PM

Post subject: Movie published

Quote

TASVideoAgent

They/Them

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Posts: 15555
Location: 127.0.0.1

This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [3318] NES Kirby's Adventure "game end glitch" by TASeditor, MESHUGGAH, CoolKirby, Masterjun, MUGG & illayaya in 00:35.76

Posted: 12/14/2021 7:46 AM

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Fortranm

He/Him

Editor, Experienced player (877)

Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1121

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but does the credit warp really count as beating the game in this case? Apparently, there is no save file generated from this run because the credit sequence itself does not change game progression. The memory address 0x7917 (and 0x793D) seems to be the progression counter that gets incremented by 1 every time a level is complete or a big button is pressed. The counter progression for the final stage happens around the time the full moon gets turned into a crescent after the final boss fight with the save file being updated at the same time. The player can reset at this point without losing progress, and if all big buttons have been pressed by then, the Extra Game mode would be unlocked as well. So... yeah. This movie basically ends with triggering a sequence that doesn't change the game progression whatsoever. Given the precedents of movies triggering the credits in a similar fashion not being accepted as beating the game (#3903: Masterjun & FractalFusion's GBC Pokémon: Yellow Version "save glitch" in 01:10.47 and probably more), should this movie (and the other ones in this obsoletion chain so far) really be considered to have achieved game completion?

Posted: 12/14/2021 6:15 PM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)

Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg

Fortranm wrote:

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but does the credit warp really count as beating the game in this case? Apparently, there is no save file generated from this run because the credit sequence itself does not change game progression. The memory address 0x7917 (and 0x793D) seems to be the progression counter that gets incremented by 1 every time a level is complete or a big button is pressed. The counter progression for the final stage happens around the time the full moon gets turned into a crescent after the final boss fight with the save file being updated at the same time. The player can reset at this point without losing progress, and if all big buttons have been pressed by then, the Extra Game mode would be unlocked as well. So... yeah. This movie basically ends with triggering a sequence that doesn't change the game progression whatsoever. Given the precedents of movies triggering the credits in a similar fashion not being accepted as beating the game (#3903: Masterjun & FractalFusion's GBC Pokémon: Yellow Version "save glitch" in 01:10.47 and probably more), should this movie (and the other ones in this obsoletion chain so far) really be considered to have achieved game completion?

We've had this discussion with MM1 GEG. The main idea is that those are 2 separate things, and the sequence you're describing is a part of another level's gameplay. We can't jump to that level, so we can't do the things it does. To check more precisely, somebody needs to see game code probably. Checks didn't happen in due time because reasons. One of the submissions was accepted by me, but I was busy dealing with other aspects of this branch (framewars, encodes).

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 9/19/2024 2:13 AM

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keyword

Player (117)

Joined: 6/23/2022
Posts: 12

tried to resync this on bizhawk 2.8 but couldn't get the credits to show. best / most interesting thing i could get was the title screen using some arcane inputs: https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638623087674909796 wondering if there's any path left here or if it's just not possible in neshawk.

Posted: 9/19/2024 3:45 PM

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MESHUGGAH

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Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1353
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keyword wrote:

tried to resync this on bizhawk 2.8 but couldn't get the credits to show. best / most interesting thing i could get was the title screen using some arcane inputs: https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638623087674909796 wondering if there's any path left here or if it's just not possible in neshawk.

- IIRC you need the correct subpixel positions at the moment of final B press. My version (previously released TAS) used a lua script to get those subpixel values. - Using extra inputs: as far as I know, you can't trigger it with extra input. You can delay the evident crash or freeze it (non lag frames after crash) but you can't manipulate it to trigger end screen. I don't have tools installed/collected to verify stuffs. Are those position values equal to between the two emulators (fceux 2.2.3 and your selected version of BizHawk)?

PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...

Posted: 9/20/2024 11:58 PM
(Edited: 9/20/2024 11:59 PM)

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keyword

Player (117)

Joined: 6/23/2022
Posts: 12

thanks. figured it out, i think it's because the waterfall pattern was different. I've heard before that background elements like that use bank switching, so that's probably why? unfortunately it's independent of lag so i had to delay it for a bit, so the resynced movie is slower. not optimized either. https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638624734825493529

Posted: 9/27/2024 4:29 PM
(Edited: 10/1/2024 11:34 AM)

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MESHUGGAH

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Skilled player (1917)

Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1353
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯

I'm thinking on checking out this TAS in terms of improving in the following days. Currently my notes in my mind are: - keyword does lot of clips in his no abilities TAS edit: and I'm interested in pause clip having any beneficial effects for us - https://tasvideos.org/9286S - MUGG's lua script for BizHawk 2.9 edit: lag counter is unreliable in TAStudio, both for playback and frame advance, need to check out Masterjun's old lua for the 1st GEG movie ~~(I assume 2.9 is the latest BizHawk)~~ - https://pastebin.com/aAUh2Wtf - check out keyword's resync movie for comparison times - https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638624734825493529 - start from this thread's fceux movie (to optimize resync as well) - ~~rewatch that youtube video I saw~~ people doing the damage ~~cancellling~~/damage boost trick on Switch Nintendo World Championship trial (which might only work on spikes which we don't have in any%) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4r3FMEU4bQ Firefall Rush, ending the stage with a damage boost from spike, probably doesn't works with enemies, 0:22 in the video - edit: the youtube video I've watched that prompt me to revisit Kirby was Abyssoft's video (my 2nd favourite TAS youtuber after Bismuth): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3Lf_73rB-w Is there anything I missed? unrelated note: on Switch NES Kirby's Adventure and on Switch NWC Kirby the game crashes (looks like they couldn't find a way to identify and make sure to disable this strategy by rewinding back to safe place) - https://youtu.be/OZi6O3x99Q4?t=204 WIP so far: - keyword's resync very good up to level 1 2nd screen - try 2nd screen different routes for lag reductioning (eat less or shoot twice or dmg boost and compare them)

PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...

Posted: 9/28/2024 4:57 AM

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keyword

Player (117)

Joined: 6/23/2022
Posts: 12

i don't think pause clip could be useful sadly, since you would need to wait for enemies to come to you.

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