Commentated version: https://youtu.be/6xWqirZaUgY
This is a 72052 frames, 20 minutes and 52 frames, improvement to the published run. The old run was done with a version of VBA that does not have accurate emulation. For this submission text, I'll instead compare to a run that has been synced for BizHawk, with a time of 1:41:17.786 (363011 frames).
This is my third time TASing this game and a project that has been in the works, on and off, for the past 5 years. I initially had no intentions of improving the previous run back when we finished it. I said as a "joke" that I would not make another run "unless Flippers skip is found". Then about 7 months after the TAS was published, that very thing was found. Eventually, more and more new tricks and glitches were discovered and I knew that a new TAS had to be made.
While working on the new run, even more things were found as well. Which meant that I fairly often had to redo larger parts of the run in order to include the new timesavers. This, in combination with huge struggles with RNG, made it quite tedious to TAS and I lost all motivation and enjoyment from it for many months at a time, practically giving up on it. HUGE thanks to the The Minish Cap speedrunning community for both making me suffer and giving me support <3.
Some notes about glitches in the past submission: https://tasvideos.org/5225S

RNG

General stuff

The randomness elements have been the biggest struggle when it comes to TASing this game. The main source of manipulating RNG is through some of Link's actions, mainly: Rolling, slashing with the sword and charging the Pegasus Boots. Unless I need to move forward or slash my sword anyway, all of these will cost time to do. There are however several waiting parts where lots of slashes can be added. At times, you'll also see me standing still, not doing anything, for a longer time. This is so that I could, if needed, add in slashes later without having to redo it all.
In Mount Crenel, bombs are sometimes used between rolls, which does not cost any time. The benefit they have is to kill enemies and change RNG that way. Bombs are a scarce resource and this method thus can't be used often.

Item Drops

In past TASes, this has just been trial and error. Though knowing that this time around I would have to get additional 5 Kinstone Pieces than past run (later dropped to 4), I knew that trial and error wouldn't cut it, as these are rare drops to get. This is where the amazing Henny022 comes in and develops a script to calculate drop rates! The rates themselves differ depending on which area you are in, as well as your inventory state, like how much health, bombs and arrows you got.
Putting my state in the script, I can then see that I need 64 RNG calls to get a Green Kinstone from a bush, or that 20 RNG calls earlier will also give me a Green Kinstone. This way I can plan out how and where to get the items I need in a much more realistic fashion and it completely changed things around for me! I would not have been able to finish this run without this tool.

On to the run itself!

AreaFrames ahead
Overworld 120
Deepwood Shrine341
Overworld 220
Cave of Flames9042
Overworld 336690
Fortress of Winds38900
Overworld 452447
Temple of Droplets65437
Overworld 562518
Palace of winds78388
Overworld 674924
Dark Hyrule Castle76567

Overworld 1

The whole beginning up to the first dungeon is mostly identical as the previous run. Just minor movement adjustments to save time.

Deepwood Shrine

Starting here will be some actual new timesavers and strategies! Starting with the statue push at the beginning. Previously, grabbing it to get a higher y-position before pushing was used, though it's both faster and puts you higher up by holding left+right to walk up while initiating the push.
This also puts Link further to the left for the start of the next room, which ends with Link on the right side leaving, saving time in the third room.
The room before the miniboss is a tricky one. The dust on the ground slows Link down heavily, though the Puffstools there can give Link a nice damage boost. Previous TAS got one boost here, while I managed to sneak in a second one. The problem then is that I could not get the ideal pattern for the miniboss, losing time on the first hit. Overall, faster.
Another timesave was to walk further towards the web before I started using the Gust Jar, as Link moves slower while the item is being used.
Lilypad section is never fun TAS. Optimal movement for it is hard, when going in a diagonal pattern can often save more time than a straight line, though as it takes time to turn around, this isn't always faster. The Pesto enemies are also blocking the path, though at the same time, I want them to sometimes hit me, as that cancels the use of the Gust Jar and makes it quicker to re-use it again, especially when turning around in between. 159 frames were saved in the lilypad section alone!
I managed to save 34 frames in the Big Key room. When using the Gust Jar, the pixels that will be sucked are random and you can also change it up a bit by moving. Standing still can sometimes mean you grab onto the mushroom faster than if you move towards it, for example. Here I manipulate to get the mushrooms to be grabbed earlier with diagonal movement, mostly. Similar timesave, though more minor, also occurred in the room before the boss.

Overworld 2

The rupee route was switched up a bit. Two blue rupees were manipulated from bushes on the way back to town. This was both due to them being convenient to get here, but also as a safer option in case the RNG would be disgusting later (which it often is) and not leading me to any good drop options. This is still a faster option than old TAS did.
I go and activate the Wind Crest so that I can warp to it later. This is different compared to old TAS due a completely new route after the third dungeon. More on that later!
Normally to exit the town, you have to show the guard that you can use the Spin Attack. A new trick is used to bypass the guard and skip that conversation +the time it takes to charge up the sword. The Spin Attack technique is still required later in order to clone Link using the Four Swords.
As for the guard skip: When Link falls down a hole or water (before Flippers), he'll be taken to the last visited tile of solid ground. Not all tiles update this flag however, such as the road tiles in front of the guard or the bricks next to the water. I can then go a tile above the guard, only walk on certain tiles and then fall into the water. As I respawned, if you don't go into the inventory menu, the camera will pan back to Link and the guard will start moving before you can, blocking the path. The inventory both snaps the camera instantly and makes me start walking at the same time as the guard, making it possible to sneak past.
Mount Crenel, as with most areas, is an RNG pain. With the Tektites around, the RNG usually changes every frame. This can be good as I can delay a few frames entering the next screen, where changing RNG in other manners (slashing/rolling) usually costs more time. Another method, which was also used in the old TAS, is to waste bombs that can kill enemies and thus changing RNG. I can do that without wasting time between rolls. Bombs are however used a lot in the run and can be hard to refill without a big time loss, which became a problem later in the run (more on that). I therefore try not to spend too many bombs.
The mountain climb itself is nearly identical, not much to add. 20 frames ahead when entering the second dungeon, due to the time loss of activating the Wind Crest earlier.

Cave of Flames

Here comes the first big timesaver and new glitch, saving a huge chunk in this dungeon! This is where the Angle Retention comes in use at two different locations.
I drop down into the hole and hold right+down to jump out of it, setting the angle value to 3. Moving right+down and roll will keep the angle value up to the chest. Pulling it results in the chest moving the opposite direction, going up+left and out of bounds. Once it hits the tile where the loading trigger is, it gets deleted and becomes an empty tile. The chest is then pulled down for the key to be collected. As the loading trigger is gone, Link can move out of bounds as well, navigating to the room with the Cane of Pacci.
The second use of the glitch is coming up shortly after. Here I need to switch angle a few times while pulling/pushing to get the switch into the right position. When the switch is then grabbed, Link is put above it on the right, a damage boost is then needed to clip Link onto the ceiling. Link is now in the wrong background layer and can walk above walls and objects, directly to the boss' lair, skippin the Big Key and several rooms. A fairy is grabbed for later use.
Nothing worth saying about the boss fight itself. For the last hit it's faster to have Gleerok die facing downwards.

Overworld 3

Normally in the story, you are required to get back to Hyrule Castle to upgrade the sword to the Four Sword and enable cloning. Though thanks to many new glitches found, the first cloning upgrade can be completely skipped!
Onto the first major skip, the Crenel Clip. This is a new way of climbing down the mountain which puts Link past the first requirement of using the Four Sword. It involves essentially being pushed into out of bounds using a Rock Beetle. First step is to lure it into position. Once awoken, it moves in one direction for a set time, stops, waits a while and then becomes a solid rock again. During this period, it's possible to slash it with the sword in order to move it around. Barely enough time to get it into position in one go. I manipulated a Peahat to move towards me, using it to boost Link forwards.
Next I do a bottle glitch to make Link invulnerable to enemies. This is done by using a bottle and cancelling the animation by reading the sign. Link can now stand in enemies without getting hurt. Second step is to push against the Beetle, increasing Link's Push Value up to 6. This address is used both when Link starts pushing against push-able objects but also when about to jump down a ledge. I then want Link to move into the wall on the right. In order to keep the Push Value while moving, I slash the sword. You can just hold it directly and walk to the right, though this charges up the spin attack and will make a spin once landing on the ground. I avoid the spin by slashing while waiting for the beetle to settle into position and then move right. Once the beetle rests, the rock will become a solid object, pushing Link into the wall to the right. Normally, this would push Link back out again, though because the Push Value is charged up to 6, and I'm walking into a ledge jump section, Link jumps down the cliff before being pushed into bounds again. Link gets out of bounds and can then navigate far south into the next area of the game and read the sign which starts the Pegasus Boots quest.
The Boots quest itself is done the same way as before, apart from collecting two Green Kinstone pieces, which will come in use after the next dungeon, more on that.
While in Castor Wilds, I go directly to obtain the Bow. The lilypad section was heavily improved compared to last time. Fight for the bow is one of the hardest ones in the game, there are so many different patterns to get for it.
New skip after the Bow: Peahat Clip. A Peahat is brought up to the upper layer using the Gust Jar. If the Gust Jar is cancelled, the Peahat will fall onto the ground instead of being sucked in, and it can then be moved around using the shield. The bridge between the platforms has a different background layer than the platforms themselves. The pegs on the left side of this specific bridge don't have collisions for both layers. The idea is to put the Peahat on the wooden area next to the bridge and have it push you into the pegs without switching layers.
All set up and done, the whole section can be bypassed, and when going to the screen below, we can move all the way to the right out of bounds, skipping that section as well and going directly into the next dungeon!

Fortress of Winds

Another dungeon, another new set of glitches! When the Armos statues are reached, instead of cloning Link (Which can't be done currently anyway...) to push down the buttons, we'll instead use the Armos statue to clip into the other statue without needing to activate it and reach the lever this way.
Route to the Mole Mitts is the same, including obtaining a Red Kinstone piece. When we get back to the Armos', another clip is used to get to the left section. I use the bomb to speed up the Armos' movement by damaging it. Then it's yet again a Portal Items jump in combination with a bomb damage boost to get out of bounds to go to the boss room.
Boss fight is mostly unchanged from last time. Boots cancel the bow-shooting animation, saving some time for each shot, then using some sword slashes to finish the second hand. The Eye inside Mazaal can't spawn in the same place twice in a row. It's therefore manipulated to be middle-right-middle.
Previous TAS obtained the Heart Container here. It was the quickest way to fill up the health and many damage boosts were coming up. Though this time, it won't be needed.

Overworld 4

Normally, this section of the game is for collecting the books and returning them back to the Library, while collecting the Power Bracelets and obtaining the Flippers as the reward. All this will be skipped and replaced with the "Tingle Siblings?" sidequest to obtain the Magical Boomerang. This is done by talking to Tingle then fusing with all four to open up the way. The Tingle visit needs no explanation.
David Jr. is next in Lake Hylia. Manipulating the Kinstones needed was painful. I do an extra equip for the Mole Mitts to dig them out of the ground.
Ankle in Lon Lon Ranch is trickier to reach. The normal way of reaching him is to go into the cave, clone Link and push a block. As cloning is still not possible, we have to find another way: the Ocarina Glitch. By dying the same time we open a door, and being revived with a Fairy (Which is why it was collected back in Cave of Flames), the Ocarina Glitch can be activated in the doorframe. Entering the house will update what coordinates Link will jump towards when getting on top of a Minish Portal. This value will normally be updated when approaching a Portal, though while Ocarina Glitch is activated, it will not update. Link therefore tries to reach coordinate 0,0 (topleft), but is blocked by the wall and can then jump up onto the ledge to the third Tingle Sibling.
Knuckle is going to be last. First a quick stop to Strato in Hyrule Town to fuse with him and activate the Portal for later. Road to Knuckle is then to simply dig through the tunnel. Nothing fancy. After that the paths to the path to the Magical Boomerang opens up and we go and get it.
Back to Lake Hylia. As Link didn't manage to find the Flippers, Ocarina Glitch has to be used to reach the dungeon. This small section was extra difficult. At this point I'm low on bombs and there aren't many places where they can be obtained. These bushes are great for that, but have a low chance of dropping. At the same time, I'm also manipulating the movement of the Octorok. To open the door without dying, I can be pushed by a stunned enemy. A similar method to this was already done in Hyrule Town in previous TASes. This method is however more precise.

Temple of Droplets

Here is the real reason why the Flippers could be skipped and why the Magical Boomerang was obtained. We start off with a different route, by getting the Big Key to the left instead of the Small Key on the right. Sliding around in the Big Key room generally sucks. Rolling doesn't make you go faster, but due to the ice physics, using the Boots works quite nicely and saves time even on shorter distances. After the Key is obtained, the magic can start!
When the Boomerang is thrown, you can hold down the button and steer it for a short time, which makes Link unable to move around. Even while the Boomerang is travelling back to Link, the button can be held to stop Link from moving. If this is held while Link is going through a Big Key door, Link will continue walking but will walk past the screen transition trigger, getting out of bounds. Link can then move to the room where the Lantern is located, guarded by the Big Blue Chuchu, which is a trivial, yet annoying, fight.
Next up is some more glitch magic: Octo Clip. While working on this TAS, a new method for the clip was found which made me redo a larger section of the run, though ending up saving over a minute. The new clip is done by first moving a pot into position, rolling into it and abusing the ice physics to get a backwards boost to clip through the Octorok.
The Octorok fight itself is never a fun one. After each time the tail has been lit, Octo will charge towards Link. This charge attack takes a different amount of time depending on what facing angle Octo has. Optimal strategy for the first phase is to have it go into the bottom left corner.
Next phase is using a different strategy than before. With a perfect angle towards the wall, the boulders will be stuck between the wall and the Octo, without breaking. This is very precise to do, as Link will need to be right in front of Octo for every shot, while also being invulnerable to not break the boulder that is already out. Each time a boulder hits, Octo will pause his actions for 24 frames. Waiting to hit until all three boulders are out thus saves time. The third boulder is angled differently to have Octo move closer to the middle. For the last phase, it's faster to hit all three boulders back at once.

Overworld 5

We are finally going to upgrade to the Four Swords. Thanks to us skipping a cutscene earlier, when doing the Crenel Clip after the second dungeon, the entrance to Hyrule Castle remains unblocked by the guards, ignoring the sneaking through the garden on the left.
Two upgrades of the sword are needed, which means time will be lost compared to old TAS in this section. A S&Q is used to be able to upgrade it again instantly without re-entering the area. Then we can exit the Castle, warp, take the portal, use a few Ocarina Glitches and enter the Palace of Winds. Skipping the Graveyard, Veil Falls and Cloud Tops, as in previous TASes.

Palace of Winds

The big block in the second room is a notorious pain. It's the only thing preventing us from going through and beating the dungeon much earlier, as well as getting Roc's Cape early which would allow for more skips. There has been extensive research on how to bypass it, but we've always come short...
Anyway! It's a tricky room, as the Peahats can often be in your way. I managed to manipulate them in my favour though, to both get a sword slash boost and a damage hit to drop the skull quicker. I would have preferred to get an item drop, mainly a heart, from the skulls, but was unable to do so. All the slashes at the moving platform were used to manipulate the next room as well as what items I'll get during the Wizzrobe fight.
The Wizz fight is changed up slightly, by using the Lantern instead of just sword+bombs. This both saved some time and helped preserve the bombs, which is a scarce resource.
While most of the dungeon was still played in the last TAS, that's about to change! Starting off with a Stairs Clip. Similar to the Peahat Clip earlier, this is doable because the developers didn't put proper collision for the blocks to the right of the torches. This makes it possible to line up Link, run down and to the right and clip through into the wrong background layer. We can then run down and skip the entire floor, jumping up to the next.
New floor means new glitch, introducing Ocarina Boost! If shield boosting an enemy and using the Ocarina on the same frame, Link will move while the Ocarina is played. During this state, the background layer will not be updated when Link goes through such a trigger. Thus, we can run through all rooms until reaching the next floor.
Another floor? Guess we need to skip it too! After killing the Ball & Chains, the Ocarina can be used during the cutscene to activate the Ocarina Glitch again. This speeds up the next section by running across the void. Then after obtaining the Big Key, it's time for the major skip. We use the same type of trick as in the previous dungeon, though this time using the Lantern. Link goes out of bounds and can then go directly to the boss room, skipping the remainder of the dungeon, saving over 4 minutes in total up to the boss!
Not much to add about the boss fight. In order to deal actual damage to the 8 hearts, you need to hit three of them "at the same time". Once three are hit, I hit three other eyes and keep going. The cloning pattern and position is important to get a good range to hit all eyes, as well as to hit them in the right order for the most optimal damage.
Falling down after killing one of the blue Gyorg gets Link back to the big red faster. The start menu is then used to get the camera back quicker. Then repeat for the second one as well. Last phase is even easier, as we can just stay put and slash all in sight.

Overworld 6

On the way to the castle, we trigger a cutscene that you normally get after upgrading the Four Swords the first time, RIP timesave. As the ladder is not supposed to be there, it messes up the cutscene slightly. The loading zones are removed, can't enter the trees or the ladder. Quick spin attack to kill the Moblins, then back to the Castle we go!

Dark Hyrule Castle

Final dungeon! When curing the statues with the spin attack, triggering a text box at the same time makes it possible to walk around when you otherwise would be still. This sets up a nice trick where you can run downwards with the boots while facing right.
After that, it's another Stairs Clip to skip this floor, which was previously done with an Ocarina Glitch, this is however faster. Upcoming sections will be mostly identical. S&Q, activate the Ocarina Glitch, go to the stairs to get into the wrong layer, get the key and S&Q again.
Changed up strategy in the room with the bombs and the moving platform. Thanks to now having the Boomerang, we can hit both the buttons without moving far. This will not update Link's respawn position and can therefore fall down the hold and respawn in front of the bomb blocks, saving a little extra time.
After killing the Darknut, and using an Ocarina Glitch + S&Q to skip the cutscene, there is a route difference. Previous TAS went to get the northeast key, we'll instead take the northwest one. Thanks to Angle Retention when getting hit by the fire bar, we can make it into the next room with an angle value of 7, "facing" up left. With some small adjustment with the bow to move down, the block can then be pushed diagonally, skipping the long detour otherwise needed to get here.
All needed keys obtained, moving on towards the boss! Faster strategy used in the triple Darknut room. Now it looks extra nice!
Vaati 1: Mostly the same as before, some frames saved. Also picking up the first arrow refill in the run.
Vaati 2: This has a new quick kill. Previously, the boss was killed in four cycles, now it's done in three. The first two remain the same. Shoot the eyes, dash into the middle and slash the eyes. For the third cycle, if a spin attack hits the middle eye, you can then kill it off instantly with a normal slash. This is combined with having the spin take out the four smaller eyes at the same time.
Vaati 3: On the way to the last fight, it's possible to use the same stairs clip as done earlier in the dungeon. This way you can enter the next room earlier, by clipping through the wall when going upwards. This was however slightly slower to do. As for the fight itself: Many different strategies were tried, but I didn't manage to save any time compared to the old TAS.

THANKS

There are many people, mainly from the RTA community for The Minish Cap, who have been helpful in various ways.
Myth197: The TMC genius. Has been incredibly helpful in every way throughout the entire process. Pointing out my dumb mistakes, coming up with suggestions, explaining how the tricks in the game work etc. This TAS wouldn't have been the same without you, thanks!
Henny022: Creating the RNG tool used for item drops. An incredible tool mandatory for creating this TAS.
SolidifiedGaming: Amazing glitch hunter who discovered several of the glitches used in this run.
Cato, Inku, ToadsWoot, Bimbus125, Ppltoast, Hailey and everyone I have forgotten: Thank you for general support!!

DrD2k9: Claiming for judging.
DrD2k9: Cutting nearly 1/5 of the time from the previous run is a huge improvement! Also nice to have a run of this game with more accurate emulation.
fsvgm777: Processing. McBobX is handling the encodes for this one.


TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #9308: Tompa's GBA The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap in 1:19:55.85
Challenger
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It's over! It's finally over!!! After 5 years since the first WIP you've posted on youtube, here comes not only a new TAS but the improvement is very huge this time! Lots of new finds and discoveries I didn't expect to see in this run. Excellent job :) Yes vote and congrats for the sub-1:20.
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
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Joined: 9/17/2009
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Nice work not only redoing the entire run for BizHawk, but also improving it! It must be rather tricky remember everything that has been discovered over the years, given you took breaks from it. Were there any tricks discovered during that time that you weren't able to add back?
In past TASes, this has just been trial and error. Though knowing that this time around I would have to get additional 5 Kinstone Pieces than past run (later dropped to 4), I knew that trial and error wouldn't cut it, as these are rare drops to get. This is where the amazing Henny022 comes in and develops a script to calculate drop rates! The rates themselves differ depending on which area you are in, as well as your inventory state, like how much health, bombs and arrows you got.
Is there more information about this? This sounds super painful to juggle all at once. How do RTA runners get 100%? This sounds almost unapproachable to route. The only thing I can imagine right now would be "follow RTA, but with savestates" then hope one day someone figures the rest out.
RetroEdit
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This TAS is no joke: years in the making, redoing sections as new glitches were found when the TAS just had final boss phases remaining, and just general collaboration with the speedrunning community to make it the best TAS it could be. Was interesting and fun to see the TAS iterate as I followed along with progress updates. Yes vote.
Joined: 4/8/2022
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jlun2 wrote:
Is there more information about this? This sounds super painful to juggle all at once. How do RTA runners get 100%? This sounds almost unapproachable to route. The only thing I can imagine right now would be "follow RTA, but with savestates" then hope one day someone figures the rest out.
I'm assuming you are asking about routing a potential 100% TAS? This would truly be an ordeal. We need just under 90 kinstones total, and it can't just be any kinstones, we need a fixed amount of each shape. Currently the RTA route does a trick to go to a spot OoB after getting the Ocarina which lets us farm at a spot to collect all the kinstones we need VERY fast, this is quite out of the way and likely wouldn't be done by the TAS as we can now just collect kinstones we need along the way. The biggest pain in this trick is that the kinstones are completely random, with the kinstones we really need being the rarest, and in order to get enough of them we often times have to get many wasted extra of other shapes we don't need more of, along with the fact we don't know what shape we are getting (nor what colour either since this is all happening off screen) unless we waste time opening the kinstone bag in the menu to check our counts. Particularly bad farm RNG can result in losing 20-30s.
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5 years for a masterpiece! Super awesome run and here is a Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee..... 5 years of e ......eeeees vote! Just to add... After this is published, I suggest it should go to Stars class.
I still learn more about English. https://www.youtube.com/user/McBobX100
I wrote:
Working is the best way to achieve goals in speedruning. Hardworking is a pain.
Warepire
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There's so many new skips I had to rewind frequently to realize what was happening. Yes vote.
Joined: 9/22/2012
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Location: Oregon
This is a terrific run! Easy yes vote.
Tompa
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jlun2 wrote:
Were there any tricks discovered during that time that you weren't able to add back?.
All new useful tricks/glitches were added during the making. Though there are some minor known timesavers that were found later on. One being better whirlwind movement in the second dungeon just before the Angle Retention glitch. It's only a minor timesave of a couple of frames, though redoing that would change the RNG and the hassle for it was not worth it.
Alyosha
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Cool run. I admire your dedication in being able to keep redoing things and still finish the TAS. After dialing in EEPROM timing and resyncing to GBAHawk I was able to console verify this: Link to video
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Alyosha wrote:
Cool run. I admire your dedication in being able to keep redoing things and still finish the TAS. After dialing in EEPROM timing and resyncing to GBAHawk I was able to console verify this: Link to video
Wow, that's incredible! How hard was it to resync it? Was it mostly add/remove frames?
Alyosha
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jlun2 wrote:
Wow, that's incredible! How hard was it to resync it? Was it mostly add/remove frames?
It was easy, just adding frames for loading times, which is trivial with RetroEdit's resync script. It seems most GBA games are merciful when it comes to RNG, most runs even from VBA are resyncable.
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Amazing run, great work tompa!
2-do: Smurfs Nightmare, The (EU) GBC 10% fin : Mega Man: Dr. Wily's Revenge improvement: submitted Mega Man II Improvement: submitted Mega Man IV Improvement: submitted Mega Man V Improvement: submitted future plan: -n-
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [6214] GBA The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap by Tompa in 1:19:55.85
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Just want to mention that the "Console Verified" tag is missing in this publication.
Here, my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/dekutony
fsvgm777
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Thank you, added.
Steam Community page - Bluesky profile Oh, I'm just a concerned observer.