Sorry for showing up, but if this game has been done several times, someone should TAS a hack of it.
I suggest Legend of The Blob Bros. 2, because is the best SMB2 hack I found so far, so if someone is interested, please tell me.
Can you guys help me with the 1-1 through floor trick? I'm not sure how to go about setting it up.
From the Game Resources page:
"In 1-1, you use the shyguy and the enemy through floor trick to get him stuck just under the ladder. With the right y subpixel positioning you can get the character to land on him instead of the floor. Pick him up and you will fall through the floor! This takes you do Birdo's room."
In the current SDA speedrun, the guy doesn't pick up the shyguy after taking damage; it looks as if the shyguy just knocks him through the floor as it falls on him. I've tried this many times but when I manage to get to the bottom of the ladder before the shyguy, the invincibility timer runs out on me and then the shyguy kills me and proceeds to fall through the floor itself. Tips?
Be at or near the bottom of the vine and start climbing up just before the Shyguy touches you. Climbing will reverse direction and you'll end up going through the floor.
speedrunner of SMB2, Metroid, Pitfall II, Blinky Goes Up
Be at or near the bottom of the vine and start climbing up just before the Shyguy touches you. Climbing will reverse direction and you'll end up going through the floor.
I stumbled onto a trick/glitch which could potentially improve the TASes (the runner dubbed it "FUS RO WART", see at 0:42 and further). (likely frame-perfect)
From the video description (translated from French): "It's frame perfect between his hit cooldown and his prolonged blinking of pre-petrification ([on his] death animation he "chews" the veggie twice and upon his death he leaves it wide open, on the glitched sprite the mouth is wide open after 2 "chews")."
However, it should be pointed out that he loses two cycles due to a veggie disappearing and a missed veggie throw, and, from what I've been told, you still lose some time (about 1-1.5 seconds) if you only lose one cycle.
So, I've been wondering if it actually *could* improve the TASes, assuming you don't lose any cycles.
EDIT: So it is slower in the end. Ah well.
There is still some potential for it, but I've tested quite a few ideas personally. One thing I never checked is the possibility of pausing at specific frames in order to alter he patterns.
That said, there are still ideas worth looking into, but I'm not sure if it's possible to save time.
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner
- Andrew Gardikis
6 sided dice roll generator
I found a 3 frame time save in the warpless run in 4-2.
If you run a bit before pressing down for the super jump, the sliding momentum moves you quite a bit further while building up the jump power. The picture above is the frame I press down.
Unfortunately fry guy desyncs due to ??? so it still needs work.
6 sided dice roll generator
I found a 3 frame time save in the warpless run in 4-2.
If you run a bit before pressing down for the super jump, the sliding momentum moves you quite a bit further while building up the jump power. The picture above is the frame I press down.
Unfortunately fry guy desyncs due to ??? so it still needs work.
Good find. I have some small improvements to 1-1 and 4-1 that work for both the SMB2USA warps and warpless categories. SMB2USA in general is hard to optimize due to the oddities of subpixel carryover and peculiar character physics.
The princess only TAS has more improvements though. There's a faster route through 1-1 with the princess and some other optimization improvements. That might be a branch worth TASing if anyone is up to it.
Cool! So are you working on a new warps run?
It is also possible to save 4 frames in 5-2 with a slightly better birdo fight.Not sure what i did here or if it was a real improvement, cant reproduce and d ont have the file.
so im trying to create a smb2 USA tas but when i compare it to tas videos mario in my tas always falls slower. is my game just running slower for some reason or is there some trick to fall fast in smb2 usa?
EDIT: see below
There is a new-ish trick in 3-3 that allows you to beat the mouser with a star. The above test run saves about 7 seconds over the published warpless TAS this way. You can also see the trick in the current RTA world record video. The star running out also allows part of the boss defeated fanfare to be skipped.
I don't know how to do the subpixel stuff, so the movie desyncs right after this, so I'll just leave this as a starting point for anyone interested. It does make the current run somewhat outdated.
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638729375391421612
Trying to clean up my old files, I tried to do some more work on SMB2 warpless to implement the mouser star kill. I got up to 5-3 with minimal time loss but now I'm stuck on a bob-omb pick up. An albatoss is higher than in the current run and things don't line up right.
Killing the mouser with the star has some knock on effects on things that carry over between levels, I've been able to work around most of them, I only lost a few frames in 5-2 due to it, and fry guy mercifully worked out ok.
Currently I don't understand why the albatoss is spawning at a different height, it's not using the same addresses as other things I'm aware of. If anyone can figure out how to pick up that bob-omb please let me know.
Is this TAS uses the shenanigans explained in this video?
Link to video
I made a YouTube comment with the chapters. Here's also the list:
0:00 Introduction to room transition mechanics
0:41 How room transitions work
1:18 Level layout and transition objects
1:36 The level exit table explained
4:12 Examples of door and vine transitions
5:05 Positioning mechanics in transitions
9:14 Using glitches to warp between levels
11:58 Skipping Birdo in level 1-1
13:19 Manipulating transitions in level 1-2
15:40 Boss skipping and the desync mechanism
16:15 How level variables are managed
17:23 End of level algorithm flowchart
21:14 Full flowchart
22:30 Alternative wrong warp methods and conclusion
23:30 Shoutouts and level format decoding
From the current warps run thread. It looks like for this to work at all. you have to take the long route to the first Birdo. This probably costs ~5 seconds. But then screen 1 never has a level transition loaded, so if I'm understanding things right, the ladder in 1-2 would then lead to the start of the game. It then takes ~ 12 seconds to reach the potion and glitch to 1-3. Alternatively you can take a bit of a detour to load the lower cave in 1-1 as in the video. Both these options probably take the same amount of time overall.
So let's say ~15 seconds are needed to in travel time. This mean you have ~13 seconds to get to the ladder in 1-2 from the Birdo room. Definitely not possible if you need to get the key in the vase. Some kind of clip would be needed to use the other door to get to the cave for this to save time.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4094
Location: The Netherlands
My understanding was that you would complete 1-1 normally (there's no possible way the Birdo skip saves any time there, as you have to go the long way around the stage back in order to activate it).
Then in 1-2, go to Birdo's room to load the exit to 1-3 on screen 3, and then backtrack to the cave where you ladder glitch on screen 3 (probably doable using a bomb) to skip to 1-3 and have the Mouser skip active. This would save ~15 seconds on the Birdo fight+level transition and ~13 seconds on the Mouser skip.
The problem is that backtracking to the cave ladder would either require some way to clip into the blocks from the back entrance, or going the long way around, getting the key in the vase, and entering the cave from the front. If you have to do all that, it's probably slower overall.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
My understanding was that you would complete 1-1 normally (there's no possible way the Birdo skip saves any time there, as you have to go the long way around the stage back in order to activate it).
Then in 1-2, go to Birdo's room to load the exit to 1-3 on screen 3, and then backtrack to the cave where you ladder glitch on screen 3 (probably doable using a bomb) to skip to 1-3 and have the Mouser skip active. This would save ~15 seconds on the Birdo fight+level transition and ~13 seconds on the Mouser skip.
The problem is that backtracking to the cave ladder would either require some way to clip into the blocks from the back entrance, or going the long way around, getting the key in the vase, and entering the cave from the front. If you have to do all that, it's probably slower overall.
I don't think you can take the upper cave to get to 1-1 Birdo though, as that leads to a softlock when using the ladder in 1-2 as in the video. So you have to go the long way around. But either way, yeah it seems you need to somehow clip in from the upper cave door in 1-2 for it to save time. Getting the key takes too long.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4094
Location: The Netherlands
Alyosha wrote:
Noxxa wrote:
My understanding was that you would complete 1-1 normally (there's no possible way the Birdo skip saves any time there, as you have to go the long way around the stage back in order to activate it).
Then in 1-2, go to Birdo's room to load the exit to 1-3 on screen 3, and then backtrack to the cave where you ladder glitch on screen 3 (probably doable using a bomb) to skip to 1-3 and have the Mouser skip active. This would save ~15 seconds on the Birdo fight+level transition and ~13 seconds on the Mouser skip.
The problem is that backtracking to the cave ladder would either require some way to clip into the blocks from the back entrance, or going the long way around, getting the key in the vase, and entering the cave from the front. If you have to do all that, it's probably slower overall.
I don't think you can take the upper cave to get to 1-1 Birdo though, as that leads to a softlock when using the ladder in 1-2 as in the video. So you have to go the long way around. But either way, yeah it seems you need to somehow clip in from the upper cave door in 1-2 for it to save time. Getting the key takes too long.
Right, I forgot that entering the upper cave in 1-1 causes screen 2 to lead to a softlock position in the 1-1 lower cave (and that the 1-2 cave ladder is on screen 2 instead of 3). That means you can't use the upper cave to get to Birdo, so you'd have to take the long way there (or enter the upper cave, go to Birdo, and then take the long way back, and do the 1-1 wrong warp, but that's probably even slower). This would add substantial time.
One thing that does still help, which was noted by RGME in a YouTube comment, is that if you unlock the cave door in 1-2 and then wrong warp to 1-3, the door there is unlocked as well because the door lock flag isn't reset. So it would save additional time in 1-3. The warpless TAS actually ladder-tricks past this locked door anyway, so this is negligible.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
6 sided dice roll generator
I found a 3 frame time save in the warpless run in 4-2.
If you run a bit before pressing down for the super jump, the sliding momentum moves you quite a bit further while building up the jump power. The picture above is the frame I press down.
Unfortunately fry guy desyncs due to ??? so it still needs work.
