This topic is for the purpose of discussing #9534: arukAdo's PSX Castlevania: Symphony of the Night "pacifist, AXEARMOR code" in 19:56.08

After watching this one and the Luck Mode version, I am more convinced that Luck Mode is way better at handling this category, though because they're both similar after couple minutes, I guess they both fine? Either way, I am still more with Luck Mode version as it felt more enjoyable than this one, I'm voting Meh here.

Hi arukAdo, I notice you input "AXEARMOR" in the name selection. Per [https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/196885-castlevania-symphony-of-the-night/cheats], this allows you to start the game with an armor already in the inventory. I am asking because this constitutes the use of an in-game code, which is allowed in certain circumstances, but needs to be properly clarified. Can you explain why you use it and how does that constitute "Normal Mode"?

The wording with "normal mode" is only to distinct the use of "luck mode", the difference is the starting stats, luck mode start at 25hp and 1mp regardless what you do, normal is stats you get from how you beat prologue; time, damage taken, hearts and what subweapon you have produce slight differences on the stats results. In this run, the axe armor is used to stop the big toss in the colosseum; it is not possible to get toss mid air but only on the ground (because of the increased HP) with the blade master slash attack (where as in the luck mode since lower HP you can simply touch him mid air to get toss), so without stopping your movement you would just get past the doorway, the axe armor provide the only mean to do this. The other consequence (from stats) is it allow to do more wingsmash due to higher mp capacity, it is in the end still slower than just going luck mode ironically. The sram main usage is (like in luck mode) to allow to buy the duplicator, that been sayd I believe "axearmor" can only be input with "replay" (sram) unlike luck mode itself. Despite they have the same kill count, I was under the assumption this could only go in playground, simply because its slower. The previous publication use "normal mode" (and sram for duplicator too)

I just found out that the luck code is used in all SOTN branches aside from [2657] PSX Castlevania: Symphony of the Night "pacifist" by ForgoneMoose in 21:08.62 and [2584] PSX Castlevania: Symphony of the Night "Richter mode" by pirate_sephiroth & ForgoneMoose in 05:39.85. Yet there's zero distinction either way. Both fastest completion and no-major-skip-glitch use it like it's not big deal. Having 3 variations of pacifist makes this really hard to resolve: one uses a code, another uses another code, and the original uses no codes. We can't move an existing publication to Playground, and I can't say it's fine to have variants of all goals by different code usage. arukAdo, do you know why those 2 branches don't use the luck code? Was it to make gameplay more difficult, given that the code allows for a shorter movie?

Richter dont use luck code because... its richter character, not alucard. You can only input one code at a time, RICHTER is one of the three possible codes. (luck, axearmor, richter) I suppose I will repeat it again, the reason to NOT use the luck code is the starting stats, they are determined by how you beat the prologue, with the very exception of luck code; -if you use luck code, you start with 25hp and 1mp. -if you use axearmor, or no code, you get the results of prologue, 70/75/80hp and 20/25/30 mp depending your performances (commonly refered as "normal") -if you end with no hearts remaining you get heart refresh, if you end with cross you get neutron bomb. edit: just to avoid confusion, there is no prologue with richter, of course, you start directly at the entrance. the term "beat" I use in the description is the term used by the jp version of the game; in us version its call "kill". The reason this matters for pacifist is because you need the mp to do spells, provided the objective is to avoid killing, you should not get extra mana from killing things; This is what happen in "low level" run; since it use the revenge glitch to trick the engine into thinking no murder was commited, you can only count on the starting mp you get from prologue, 30mp happen to be fine enough. If you have 1mp you cannot transform into wolf or bat or anything, they drain mp over time. The inherant HP increase influence "big toss", to get a big toss (used in several glitching techniques, or just for the speed itself) you require the damage taken to be 50% of your max hp, if you have 80hp you can only get big toss from a monster that deal you 40damage, or, 20 damage if you are under poison status (the shroom) that increase damage by 100%. Needless to say; with 25HP you have a lot more oppertunity to do that compared to 80HP, it is the main reason most categories use luck code. The axe armor here is used to stop the big toss before it send you to next room, voiding the room shift used to fall between walls. As for the mention you technically cant move a pub into playground, I mean I cant do much about that, sorry to hear it. How about you reject this for optimization and I slightly polish more the second castle, then you can put it in playground? just a though... Regardless, I dont believe 3 branches should co-exist (hence my mention this should go playground in the sub), but, should there be more than one, "low level" would be the most logical to have, in which case I will promptly work into obsoleting it as well, should you decide to keep it, despite its inferior in term of "pacifism" since it actually kill 5 and "luck code" current kills 3. I also agree that luck code mention is redundant provided almost all movies uses that, I cant promise new movies will not use "normal mode" tho. I suppose "Replay mode" is more important mention; this basicly mean sram usage, when you finish the game, any new save will have "REPLAY" in its description (and when finish its "CLEAR"), in all movies this is used to buy duplicator and skip cutscenes. I would like to mention also the "no major skip glitch" is a farce; plently of major skip glitch are used in the movie that doesnt use sram. Skiping richter is done in a specific way to avoid its dialog (otherwise with sram its faster and you just skip the cutscene), and its definitly a massive skip. If you want me to clean up some tags related to the several branches we have, I will need the wiki edit role I suppose.

To me, pacifist goal should only have one variant that focuses mainly on beating the game in as minimal kills as possible. I think the fact that luck mode is used pretty much across most categories should not make pacifist different. Luck mode version still beats pacifist low level one, so my take is to make the Pacifist Luck Mode obsolete the Pacifist Low Level version, despite it using an SRAM, as both are Alternative categories. As for this one, I believe it should go to Playground as what arukAdo suggested because well, it is still slower than luck mode version and also just a pacifist variant. For category naming, I think it should be now just "pacifist" with no mentioning which code it used. So far, I don't think there was any publication accident.

That is correct (imo) and what we did conclude after several back and forth with feos in Ask A judge Also, the "low level" does USE sram, for duplicator, I just mention it in case theres some confusion about it. There is only one movie that does not use sram (the one with wrong tag no major skip)

To me, pacifist goal should only have one variant that focuses mainly on beating the game in as minimal kills as possible. I think the fact that luck mode is used pretty much across most categories should not make pacifist different. Luck mode version still beats pacifist low level one, so my take is to make the Pacifist Luck Mode obsolete the Pacifist Low Level version, despite it using an SRAM, as both are Alternative categories. As for this one, I believe it should go to Playground as what arukAdo suggested because well, it is still slower than luck mode version and also just a pacifist variant. For category naming, I think it should be now just "pacifist" with no mentioning which code it used. So far, I don't think there was any publication accident.

I'm unable to disagree here! Having less kills sounds like a legitimate improvement, and luck mode is de facto treated as just optimization technique or something.