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Posted: 12/12/2005 1:11 AM
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nfq
Player (94)
Joined: 5/10/2005
Posts: 1204
that worked purrfectly for me... but it's nothing interesting anyway... just presses away text.
Youtube channel | Goldeneye and PD TAS times
Posted: 12/12/2005 9:07 PM
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Jammer01
Joined: 11/24/2005
Posts: 87
Seriously, I think a good TAS of this game would rock. Reading through all of Acryte's tricks for the Deku tree I can just imagine them all done perfectly...Incredible. I bet overall if you did everything absolutely perfectly at least 5 minutes could be saved off of the deku tree section in TSA's run, if not more. In fact, I would guess more. And about forced waits, many of the tricks Acryte discovered are designed to skip a significant amount of those forced waits. According to TSA, most messages can be skipped simply by mashing B or A or something at just the right time, and in a tool assisted run, this should be no problem. Acryte has ways of skipping some of those messages that can't be skipped in this manner by very cool stuff. Also there are things like damage boosts to climb up the vine wall faster and all kinds of cool things. If I had an analog controller i would totally do a test of up to the end of the Deku tree, because I know that it would look fantastic if you included all of those crazy tricks. I really don't see the problem in the delay for the pause menu, unless it could cause desyncs. So it is a little delay, but if this run is truly optimized, the number of times you open the start menu shouldnt be that many, so it shouldn't make a huge difference time-wise given the length of the run.
Posted: 12/13/2005 6:09 AM
(Edited: 12/13/2005 6:45 AM)
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CoolBumpty
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
I just read all 479 posts on that thread on SDA. And considering that I wasn't skimming anything, and how long some of those (or well, most of those) posts by Acryte are, my brain hurts. Anyway, I think that to truly get a TAS that would be considered worthy, it would really require a gamepad with analog control. And I think that the run would be somewhere between 4:00 and 4:30. The fact that there are so many small tricks that can take away bits and pieces all over the place makes the improvement pretty big, but the fact that there's so much unskippable text and scenes makes it be a smaller percent. I'll see about doing some testing of my own later on. But for now, my brain desperately needs a rest. Edit: Er, 729 posts. Don't know how that number got so messed up.
Posted: 12/13/2005 6:15 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
If not a pad with analog control, then that dream input plugin I envisioned where you can input your exact stick coordinates with either keyboard or mouse!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/15/2005 10:36 AM
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CoolBumpty
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
I started making a test run. About 90% of the time I was busy fighting the controls and trying to figure out how to make Link face the correct angles in just a few frames. It's really hard to do that. I only got to where you get the sword. I stopped at one of the bushes I wanted to get 3 rupees from, but either you can't get it from that bush or I've been having terrible luck, since I've gotten either 0 or 1 rupee many times. Anyway, I don't think I'll work on a test route with anything near the precision I got so far, because that'll just drive you crazy with the digital controls, but I just wanted to see what was possible. From now on it'll be just to confirm the route and see about perfecting item usage and collection. It uses the normal graphics plugin, Jabo 1.6, and has 'Copy framebuffer to RDRAM' OFF. For the testrun it would be pretty silly to have it on, since no one would want to watch it if the long test couldn't be sped up, and was even slower than it is while playing it normally. But anyway, this was just a few hours of work, nothing special, and far from optimized. I went through the text in 50% speed and everything. And it only has about a minute of gameplay. =P http://fast.filespace.org/CoolBumpty/OoT_Testrun.zip
Posted: 12/15/2005 11:23 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Aw, it desyncs when you gain control of Link. You roll too early or something and hit the stuff beside the door. I think the deal is that when the camera switches to the overhead view, there's some delay for me that wasn't there for you.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/15/2005 11:39 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
Did you try using exactly the same plugins? Well, I think maybe it's necessary to have the copy framebuffer to RDRAM on for recording and playback, since the delay when it's off is incorrect and possibly arbitrary/random enough to cause desync. (And about the small delay that's still there when it's on, I think that's a combination of the very small delay that's really supposed to be there, and an additional delay outside of emulation that's your computer loading something.) In any case, I realize it's not a very satisfactory solution to require that 1 plugin and setting which runs the game so incredibly slowly, but I haven't found any other fixes yet.
Posted: 12/15/2005 12:17 PM
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CoolBumpty
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
For me it worked with the RDRAM thing checked as well. It's just that it takes forever and isn't worth watching when it's that slow. Also, I'm using Legend of Zelda, The - Ocarina of Time (U)(V1.0)[!] Hopefully it's not a defective copy of it. Oh, and if anyone wants to watch it and has the RDRAM buffer on, here's a savestate for the moment that the actual gameplay starts. But it's 1.6 mb in size, so it'll probably take longer to download than it takes to get through the intro even when it's slow. But well, if you really want to see the minute and a half of gameplay, here's the savestate: http://fast.filespace.org/CoolBumpty/OoT_Savestate.zip It doesn't seem to be in the .st format, so you have to go to All Files when loading. At least that's what worked for me.
Posted: 12/15/2005 2:27 PM
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Andypro
Joined: 5/24/2004
Posts: 262
Hey, that worked great for me. I didn't need to turn on the RDRAM setting, and I wasn't even using the same video plugin as you. I loaded up your saved state and there were no desynchs at all. Nice backflips over the fences!
Posted: 12/15/2005 7:11 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
That savestate doesn't help. Yes, I am using the exact same plugins, and yes, I did try it both with Copy Framebuffer to RDRAM turned on and with it turned off. Maybe you should upload a savestate from after you get out of the house, so at least I can see what you did even though we can't fix this desync.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/16/2005 12:38 AM
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CoolBumpty
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
Just for you. =) (sorry for going through all that trouble for just a tiny movie. I'm working on it more to make your effort end up adding up to a bit more than 90 seconds, I hope) http://fast.filespace.org/CoolBumpty/OOT_Outside_Savestate.zip
Posted: 12/16/2005 2:28 AM
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CoolBumpty
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
Okay, I got into the Deku tree. It was far from optimal, especially since I wasn't able to do a sword spin on the keyboard. And I could have rolled once or twice more, and could have tried to get three rupees from a bush, but if there are any optimizations other than the ones I mentioned, or crooked paths from having to use the keyboard, let me know. Now at least it's 4.5 minutes of gameplay until the deku tree is entered (assuming talking and waiting for the pause to go, etc is all gameplay; what I mean more accurately is the amount of time from when you control Link to entering the tree). Here's the link to the latest testrun bit, it's the same as the old link: http://fast.filespace.org/CoolBumpty/OoT_Testrun.zip
Posted: 12/16/2005 2:53 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Now it desyncs after you equip the sword. You back up, then you brush up against the left wall for some reason until you get hit by the boulder. I think we're still missing something here. Also, you should probably use http://www.filespace.org/CoolBumpty/OoT_Testrun.zip rather than http://fast.filespace.org/CoolBumpty/OoT_Testrun.zip, since the fast link doesn't update right away.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/16/2005 5:50 PM
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TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
Jammer01 wrote:
I bet overall if you did everything absolutely perfectly at least 5 minutes could be saved off of the deku tree section in TSA's run, if not more. In fact, I would guess more.
You mean the Kokiri Forest part + Deku Tree? Because I'm pretty sure my Deku Tree was like 6 mins long...meaning if you just meant the Deku Tree, that would mean the TAS would be 1 minute of that dungeon. I don't think that is possible....But I am positive a few mins would be saved on the whole first portion of the Young Link part (Kokiri Forest + Deku Tree)
Jammer01 wrote:
And about forced waits, many of the tricks Acryte discovered are designed to skip a significant amount of those forced waits. According to TSA, most messages can be skipped simply by mashing B or A or something at just the right time, and in a tool assisted run, this should be no problem. Acryte has ways of skipping some of those messages that can't be skipped in this manner by very cool stuff.
Button mashing B going into a text convo sometimes bypasses it altogether. Avoiding "hot spots", which should be easy in a TAS, also skips text.
Posted: 12/16/2005 10:11 PM
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qqwref
Player (138)
Joined: 8/27/2004
Posts: 165
TSA wrote:
Because I'm pretty sure my Deku Tree was like 6 mins long...
Well, on the 4:57 run, it takes 6:20 from entering the Tree until entering the blue warp after Gohma. Even cutting two minutes from that would be a major accomplishment. Most of the time saved on the TAS (compared with the 4:57) will probably be from in-dungeon sequence breaking and general message skipping. TSA's route and walking maneuvers are pretty optimized, so you may be able to get ten or fifteen minutes from that but that will most likely be it. You can save a lot of time by skipping a major cutscene... The whole Zelda scene in the castle is four minutes long, for example, and so if you could find a way to skip that (not likely, but who knows) you could save that much time easily.
Posted: 12/16/2005 11:16 PM
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Jammer01
Joined: 11/24/2005
Posts: 87
Oh, my bad, well I mean its been a long time and I was just making a wild estimation on the time, but my point is, that in nearly every area there has been some new trick, maybe not huge, but still something, that could be done in a TAS and not a speedrun, therefore cutting a significant amount of time from the speedrun even without the optimization, and making for a very interesting video.
Posted: 12/17/2005 8:51 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I found the setting that fixes the desync problem. I had to turn RawData off.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/17/2005 8:56 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
I had to turn RawData off.
Oh... I assumed you already did this because I would think having it on for you and off for me would completely break the sync on your Bomberman 64 run. Well, that's one less mystery, anyway. (I should stop being lazy and fix that Raw Data thing...)
Posted: 12/17/2005 9:49 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Does Jabo's input plugin have the RawData option too?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/21/2005 5:52 PM
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AngerFist
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
First edition TAS of 2015 Innovative TAS of 2007
For everyone who missed these fine speed tricks by Acryte should definitely watch these links: Iron Knuckle skip (applies to other doors too) http://s19.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3K0Y2ID119ZKB0W4RM3OS3IWUX Flame Storage - Torch Rekindling http://s10.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0Q67TSDIRLXJX3I6A8SV4TYAN2 Deku Tree Vids http://s16.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3D5NECKOZGDHQ1DDSTKV15L907 Take a look at especially the Deku Tree Vids, more specifically: Deku Tree 06 - VinewallDoubleJumpslash.avi (like I wrote in SDA that this trick is so sneaky that its truly a one of the kind trick) and watch: Deku Tree 09 - WalltorchTrick.avi The Deku Tree Vids are between 40-50mb big but definitely worth to download. Watch and be totally amazed!
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Posted: 12/21/2005 7:03 PM
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Ramzi
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
Wow. Very impressive videos. Good work.
Posted: 12/21/2005 7:35 PM
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Tailz
Former player
Joined: 7/2/2005
Posts: 309
Location: Baltimore, MD
Nice job, looks really good. Is walking backwards really faster than running forward?
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets." Wally: "Really?" Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying." Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!" Currently working on: Nothing at the moment.
Posted: 12/21/2005 7:36 PM
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AngerFist
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
First edition TAS of 2015 Innovative TAS of 2007
Tailz wrote:
Nice job, looks really good. Is walking backwards really faster than running forward?
Yes. Someone should bribe Acryte to someday make a TAS for this game or someone should definitely get inspired watching his demos to make an own TAS run.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Posted: 12/22/2005 7:11 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Let's make TSA do it. Then we can say "TSA's TAS" all the time. Hey, is there some reason that http://s19.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3K0Y2ID119ZKB0W4RM3OS3IWUX doesn't load for me? The other two work fine.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/22/2005 3:11 PM
Quote
AngerFist
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
First edition TAS of 2015 Innovative TAS of 2007
Bag Of Magic Food wrote:
Let's make TSA do it. Then we can say "TSA's TAS" all the time.
Now that was funny!
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
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