• goal: take no damage
  • goal: aim for fastest time
  • abuses programming errors in the game
For some (insane) reason I thought this would be too easy, so I added the restriction that I would take no damage. I didn't realize it until much later into the run, but it is not supposed to be possible to avoid damage in this game. Well, I did it anyway, and that includes avoiding damage from lack of oxygen, damage that doesn't visibly change your health or doesn't make a sound, damage from enemies that still attack you while you can't move from dialog/waiting, and damage from getting sort-of close to bosses or looking at them the wrong way. I think it ended up making it more interesting, since it's borderline impossible to never get hit, and taking damage in this game wouldn't require additional planning or allow anything very amazing.
So, besides that, this is also about 3 minutes and 20 seconds faster than FODA's run of the game. FODA knew his run wasn't perfect, and I did gain considerable time from moving more precisely, but he definitely didn't have that much imperfection in the movement. A lot of the time saved comes from abusing bugs/oversights - I won't explain too much more about that since that should be pretty obvious in the first few minutes. FODA's run was, of course, incredibly helpful for making this.
There are a lot of things that look like mistakes but aren't, and some things that are actually mistakes. (I know the movement could still be faster, and it's not consistently done (gets faster partway through), but it'll take someone with way more patience or much better tools to get the movement really perfect.) As incredibly difficult as this game is to play, I think it's even harder to make it perfect in a TAS. Just getting quickly from point A to point B without slamming into all sorts of walls is a challenge, not to mention doing it while dodging enemies and pushing starfish or blocks. And the boss fights were even more difficult to optimize - I'm certain they can be done faster, but it was a nightmare just to find something reasonably fast that didn't involve getting hit.
The most sadistic thing about this game is that, after putting you through a very long autoscroller called "Welcome to the Machine" (which is full of death traps and unpredictably-moving aliens that kill you instantly on contact), you go to a final battle where any mistake is almost certain to kill you, and dying in that final battle sends you all the way back to the start of The Machine!
Enjoy - and I assume there will be questions, so ask away...
Emulator: Gens movie test 9f
(Actually I made this using a custom Gens with 2 different types of autofire for the C button and a way to hide the rock graphics layer so I could see to avoid damage on the Asterite battle.)


Joined: 2/16/2005
Posts: 462
I am agreeing with everyone in saying this movie is fantastic. I know from the last one that making turns is difficult in this game but yours made it seem unecumbering. Everything about the movement screams "optimized." This deserves a STAR imo.
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Joined: 9/11/2004
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I second the star request.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 79
While I liked the run, I think that giving it a star is a bit too much. If I understand right, a starred movie is supposed to be a great show. To me this game feels too boring, especially the autoscroller part at the end. While the fact that no damage was taken might be highly impressive to someone who has played the game and knows how fiendishly hard it is, a newbie might have no such knowledge. Variety is needed to keep up the interest, especially at the end part of the run. And here we get an autoscroller, which feels endless. The music there gives me nausea. Not quite "Sitting on the edge of the seat" material. Stars are not to be given away lightly. As far as I remember the pool of stars is constant. When one thing gets a star a different one has to lose it. Maybe when suggesting a run for a star we also should suggest a run that should lose it. I have seen most of them, and while I dislike a few of them, I cannot find a run that is bad enough to lose it's star to Ecco. When watching the Rockman 1 run, I kept thinking "What is he going to zip through again? What will he do?". Ecco did not inspire such a reaction. I just wished for it to be over. If I could, I would vote yes. Not that it matters anymore, the movie is published. Bugs exploited, speedy playing and perfect reactions. This is good. The problem of repetition was unavoidable. The author did a good job, but I find the autoscroller parts not entertaining in the least. A nice run, but not star material. But then again, I might be wrong.
Joined: 10/3/2005
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It's a really good run of a really crappy game, methinks. I voted yes, but also feel that it's not star-worthy.
Joined: 2/16/2005
Posts: 462
I am aware of the high burden placed on getting a star and believe this movie deserves it. - Incredibly precise maneuvers - Very high speed - Exploitation of several glitches (collision detection, going through walls) I think it exemplifies what TASs are all about. However I know a star is usually given with overwhelming community support and accept that if some don't think it deserves a star then it probably doesn't, I just disagree.
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I watched this at about 2 AM. For completing this game without taking any damage, you deserve a medal. ...and now that my loaded page isn't from 2 AM anymore...
Stars are not to be given away lightly. As far as I remember the pool of stars is constant. When one thing gets a star a different one has to lose it. Maybe when suggesting a run for a star we also should suggest a run that should lose it. I have seen most of them, and while I dislike a few of them, I cannot find a run that is bad enough to lose it's star to Ecco.
Either I've been asleep for the past year and a half or there's no such rule; if there was, there would be only one (or at the least, very, very few) starred movies.
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You can refer to this topic for star debates.
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Joined: 12/21/2004
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Dromiceius wrote:
It's a really good run of a really crappy game, methinks. I voted yes, but also feel that it's not star-worthy.
I wouldn't call it a "really crappy game", too difficult maybe but that doesn't make it really bad. I understand that it's probably not the best candidate for having a star movie of, what with the excessively long autoscrollers and the weird combination of high speed + relaxing music + irritating sound effects. It depends somewhat on how popular this game is, though (and I have no idea about that).
KennyMan666
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Nicely done, nitsuja! I have this game, and it's indeed stupidly hard - never got far at all. Nice to know it's not impossible :P Anyway, there's one thing with this game... once, when I played it, many years ago, I stumbled across a shortcut - though, it is perfectly possible that it was a bug, but anyway - that could shorten the game considerably... It was in the very beginning of the game, when you jump high up and the aliens or whatever it is suck in all dolphins and that... I once got Ecco to go above the screen, and that put me directly in The Tube! I can't remember exactly how I did it, and I have never been able to reproduce it, but I'm 100% sure that this actually happened. So if anyone feels like looking into it...
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
nesrocks
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Must have been a password? Because that's exactly how you get into the tube, by jumping in the air on that very same scene, but later on in the game after going back in time with more powers.
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FODA wrote:
Must have been a password? Because that's exactly how you get into the tube, by jumping in the air on that very same scene, but later on in the game after going back in time with more powers.
Correct; however, it may be possible to trigger the scene change at the start (since I'm fairly positive it's the same map, just some different flags). Since Ecco never touches the physical top-of-screen boundary during the normal start, and it appears to be impossible to reach it normally (jumping only goes so far), it may trigger if you get up high enough. ...of course, assuming that it didn't update the "No Air Limit" flag, it'd be fairly useless, given you would run out of air (and therefore, health) since there are no air bubbles in The Machine. Oh well. Might still be an interesting bug to check out, if only to find out if the programmers were indeed that lazy, hehe.
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KennyMan666
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When watching this, the thought struck me too, that I had been using a password, but somewhere I seem to remember that it actually was from a new game. I think I started from the lowest part of the area and just dashed upwards. Though, that's what I tried when trying to reproduce it too, so I may have done something different.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
nesrocks
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When you jump out of the water the vortex pulls everything else but ecco. How do you plan to reach the top of the screen if there's that trigger before reaching it?
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Just saying that one of my brothers claimed to have done this as well (without knowing that you are actually supposed to do it later). I thought he had just used a PLEASExx code and mistakenly assumed that it hadn't done anything.
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FODA wrote:
When you jump out of the water the vortex pulls everything else but ecco. How do you plan to reach the top of the screen if there's that trigger before reaching it?
The trigger also has a horizontal range. If you're too far to the left, it won't happen (maybe because you're not close enough to where the whirlpool is supposed to appear). I'll see if it's possible to hit the top just outside the trigger range and then vear to the side, although I'm kind of doubtful about it being possible without a password or cheat device or some other undiscovered bug. EDIT: It is possible to be at the very top of the screen when it happens, either by moving sideways from a normal jump or by using the float-into-air bug, but either way it always just does the normal scene and puts you back into the water. I tried getting the sonar map to appear at the moment it happened or in the air before landing from it, but that didn't do anything interesting either. (BTW, does anyone else think they must have been pretty lazy with the password system for AAAAAAAA to be a valid password that skips ahead a couple levels into the game? Or could it be there intentionally for people who couldn't figure out the intro level?)
nesrocks
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Countless combinations of "A" and "N" work as passwords...
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this game never made sense to my friends or myself, but it was a great one to watch. the graphics and colors still blow me away. now that i've seen an ending, it's amazing. the maze (where the board moves with you) would have driven me insane! great work.
Joined: 7/5/2006
Posts: 7
Ecco a crappy game? I'm astonished to read something like that. I can understand somebody dislike it but write that seems to me as stupid as say R-Type is a bad game just cause you don't like shoot'em up. It is sure a pretty hard game but with the infinite lives the game allow I managed to face the Vortex Queen when I was eleven (but never beat her) so perseverance is the key in this game. This is an awesome speedrun in my opinion and all ecco players should probably like it. Watch the three last levels part is like watch a stressful horror movie but I really enjoyed it.
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Joined: 10/27/2004
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so the SDA run is up. one, nitsuja was credited ninjitsu. 2, how close do either run come to the TAS? i know the timings different, but 22 and a half minutes still seems very good.
nesrocks
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individual level runs: http://speeddemosarchive.com/Ecco.html#IL the one at top is single segment
NESAtlas
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Neat! That's a good choice for atlas movies because the map is so hard to decipher in normal play.
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Great Atlas. \o/
Joined: 5/20/2005
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Sorry for horrible BUMP. im currently training for a console speedrun of this game (on ps3 sega gen collection) There's an interesting glitch on the lagoon stage that wast'n show on the tas, and i really want to master this one for my speedrun. but i can't do it at all. here's the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1kGlqgZGo
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