Since I posted about that Star World 4 thing earlier in this thread, I figured I might as well post about what I'm trying to accomplish in Donut Plains 1 here too:
It's once again for the small mario run on SDA. The goal is to reach the secret exit without utilizing Yoshi. The closest I've come is this, and from there it almost seems like a walljump might be possible. I don't actually know how much forward speed Mario must have for a walljump to be possible. Anyway if anyone can figure out a way to do it or to find another strategy that'll work please post about it.
I have made another attempt at that, but as I did never do any successful SMW rerecording before, it sucks and did not finish as I could not find out how to bounce off a shell I've thrown. I'm more of a coder, then a gamer.
Anyway:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/722/SMW_SW4_otherway.smv
The idea is to just throw up a shell at the point where the green shell would drop itself. There seems to be enough time to do:
- either: Grab the other shell gain some gravity monumentum and bounce off from it, like with the green shell.
- Jump to the other platform, grab the shell and use the gravity directly without landing on platform first.
- Jump to the other platform, grab the shell, land, gain forward monumentum and do almost exactly like in JXQs version, but with the difference that the shell has more downward monumentum.
Why I still thought about that, if there is already one solution?
Well, jimsfriend wrote at SDA:
jimsfriend wrote:
hat shouldn't be too hard... *cries*
Even if you don't read here, thankyou JXQ. You are a genius.
Now I just need to know why the red one doesn't come out of his shell sometimes. I stomp the shell and I have an empty shell, but no shell-less koopa guy.
So I thought perhaps it is possible with the shell.
From what I've seen I should be in the right height in my video to do the jump, and I checked again - if I do the YB jump a bit shorter and press Y, -> faster, I can get in any height I wish with the downward shell - though I still do not know how to bounce off of it.
So, please TAS artists show me if it can be done.
cu
Fabian(X)
[edit: too bad that it won't work - bad physics ;-)]
First of all, we have the same name!
Second, unfortunately your idea won't work. It's impossible to bounce off shells thrown in the air (or dropped). Shells that have been kicked can be jumped off of, and P-switches can always be used this way.
Answers to various questions:
SDW PSW: You can take a different route by entering the last pipe next to that block, then you will be on the bottom and can form the coin bridge, and enter a nearby pipe to end up on top of it. The brick is just a shortcut (and the way to the key). Or you could backtrack and bring three shells through a pipe, the first two killing pirahna plants.
SMW DP1: You don't have to be at full speed for a walljump, but you need a platform that is at least two blocks high (so you can catch ground in-between those two blocks), so it won't work there. Is this the only challenge left for small Mario in an 11-exit run?
SMW SW4: If there are too many sprites (objects) on the screen, a koopa sometimes won't come out of the shell, instead he'll vanish. If it doesn't work with the one on the platform, get rid of it and try the flying red one next to it like my example did.
Also LOL genius? Nah, I just play SMW too much :)
Edit: Case in point. Despite this, an 11-exit is absolutely impossible with small Mario alone. (Today's riddle is - try to figure out why)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
What? Fabian and Fabianx are not the same person? I always just assumed that Fabianx changed his nick to Fabian because Fabianx hasn't been around lately. Well this clears some things up..
Edit: Case in point. Despite this, an 11-exit is absolutely impossible with small Mario alone. (Today's riddle is - try to figure out why)
Yup. When I woke up this morning I realized I'd have to try that. Now I don't have to :) Very nice, you made it a lot easier to perform on console too. Since I jumped from the ground to the left of the pipe, I either had to spinjump for exactly one frame to land on the message box and jump from there (awful), or make a big jump and land on the second koopa from the top, then turn around at the right time (another one frame window), to avoid colliding with the top one and die (awful).
The point of finishing DP1b was to not have to do DP2 (before SW4 was solved, DP2b and GSP were also required) and instead do DS1 and go from there. I won't ruin the fun for those still trying to figure out the 11 exit riddle :)
I thought the pipe leading to the coin bridge from the key room was a one way pipe. That's what you get from just having played the game through 2 times ever. Stuff like that doesn't exactly come up when making a speedrun. Now all questions about the route should be answered though, it's just up to someone to take on the challenge!
you made it a lot easier to perform on console too.
Maybe, but still very close to impossible. Even if the super-speed and jumps are done up to the final jump onto the koopa, there is about a 4 frame window to release the shell, and you can't be too close, because Mario won't bounce off the shell immediately after he kicks it.
Now I'm interested in how many exits are still possible in SMW without any powerups, switches, or Yoshis.
I thought the pipe leading to the coin bridge from the key room was a one way pipe.
That is a 1-way pipe (behind the brick). When you go through that pipe and are in the room with two pipes and a flying-goomba (sometimes, silly sprite overload), those are both 2-way pipes. The way to get down there without breaking that brick is by entering the rightmost (but still vertical) pipe in the same area with that brick that is cape-breakable.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
That actually might be a really fun challenge. If there are plenty of levels that are almost impossible but we figure out a way, that would be awesome to watch. As long as we don't have to use the hopping glitch of course!
Unfortunately I think the fast route to Bowser is quite boring in SDW so I'm not sure if this run would be the best idea if someone decided to make a SMW/SDW capeless run. My opinion is that SDW is a much much better game than SMW though, so I'd rank a "full" SDW run first, then full SMW, minimal SDW and least interesting is minimal SMW. That's my opinion anyway.
I agree with you on that, a full SDW run would be best. I just keep advocating a partial one first, because a full SDW TOS would take about a month, and segments from the partial SDW run could be hex edited in to the full run anyway.
The partial run wasn't really intended to be as entertaining as possible, but as an experiment so we could see how the creators and watchers reacted to this new kind of run before plunging ourselves into an extended project.
The other reason I keep asking for a straight to bowser run, is that I keep hoping something will come up (and it does look like stuff is coming up) that will make it so you can't necessarily go straight to bowser using the normal path, and I'm interested to see what kind of path you would have to take.
Trying not to multipost too much:
It's looking like the final products will be:
First option:
*Collects no powerups or other aids (ie Yoshi and switch palaces)
*Hoping glitch unused to preserve author's sanity
*Aims for fastest time with the above restrictions
Second option:
*Never collects feather, [Yoshi?], [Switch palace?], [Powerups?]
*Hoping glitch unused to preserve author's sanity
*Aims to complete all levels (runs which complete extra levels obsolete previous runs regardless of time) at maximum speed with the above restrictions.
Which level do you mean? Cheese Bridge Area, taking you to Star World 3 (via Soda Lake)? Or the fortress in Forest of Illusion, taking you to Star World 4? I thought you meant the Forest of Illusion one, and I couldn't remember what that level looked like, so I did this for fun (I'm bored tonight). Nothing very amazing about this video though :)
I finally figured out why it wouldn't work, I was right clicking and saying "save target as".
Anyways, I meant the secret forest of illusion exit you fool!
Yes that's a good summary. The small mario run we've been trying to help out with is for console though, it's being done over at SDA. What I personally would like to see as a TAS in the small mario department is a run that completes all level possible. I think the rush to Bowser-run isn't for us, I'm going to leave it to jimsfriend.
That's the first option. The second option I think would be with Yoshi and switch palaces and any other things you can think of, the only restriction there is the feather thing. Of course, it's up to the author but that's the best idea I think.
Just a quick word on the hopping glitch. It's not so much that it's difficult to perform it (it probably takes a few minutes to set up, at least for me who's not very used to it), I just think it makes the levels look uglier and also more boring to make. I can't really explain why I dislike it. It's not a huge deal at all of course, if whoever makes the video wants to include it (I mean it does speed things up so why wouldn't you, really?), go right ahead. It doesn't make it less entertaining to watch.
Edit: Graveworm, the "hopping glitch" is a trick discovered by flagitious and used in the most recent 11 exit SMW run and mine and JXQ's 120 exit SDW run. It's used when Mario does not yet have a cape. What you do is you run up to full speed and jump. While in the air, you release -> at the correct frame. Then, you jump the very first frame you reach the ground, over and over, hopefully until the level is over. This is slightly faster than usual running, if you want an explanation why, go find flagitious topic here in the SNES forum called "new trick for Super Mario World" or something. It should be on page 2 or 3. Hope this helps, if you have any other questions just ask them.
That actually might be a really fun challenge. If there are plenty of levels that are almost impossible but we figure out a way, that would be awesome to watch. As long as we don't have to use the hopping glitch of course!
What so when you said this you just thought it would be fun to torture people. It's not fair to be like "wow, check out all the almost impossible awesome tricks we could do!" and "it would be really run to do this", and then not do it.
If I've given you the impression that I'm interested in doing any of these I'm sorry. You may or may not know that I'm doing a 96 exit regular run right now. I've also never said "it would be really fun to do this". What I have said is "it would be really fun to watch this". If you read all my post in this thread again I don't think you'll find me saying anything to imply I was going to do any of these. Misunderstandings happen though and I'm sorry if you feel I have tortured you.
While it is fun to discover what can be done, most of the levels in a full run would be very similar to the existing 96-exit run, just without flying - only a few of them would have these types of tricks in them, a couple of which have already been recorded.
But who knows? It might be done someday. If you want it done faster then you could always give it a shot yourself (that's how I started TASing).
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
I guess I'll see if I'm fit to make Mario TOSs then...
Damn, I've figured out how frame advance works, but I can only get the arrow keys to register while paused, not the jump key or anything.
Making help topic... (unless someone here anwsers it first that is)
Damn, I've figured out how frame advance works, but I can only get the arrow keys to register while paused, not the jump key or anything.
Try changing what your jump key is. The keyboard has limitations on what keys can be pressed at once, so it'll take some experimentation to make sure all the key combinations you need to be able to press will register.
Sometimes when I need to hold YB and X at the same time I have to reconfigure and put X on my numpad for a while. I did this in DP1 just before I took the feather for example, when I threw a fireball on the koopa. Then afterwards I always forget I've changed it and go mad when I can't capespin some enemy 5 times in a row.
jimsfriend: Haven't tested, but I'm pretty sure that the curving nature of that edge is purely graphic, and that it's impossible to pass through there.
