Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
1) Mario Wings to the Sky
This one is a paradox hehe
5) Somewhere Over the Rainbow
6) 8 Red Coins on the Clouds level
well these really seem impossible, unless we find out how to double jump in the air or something
2) Eye to Eye in Secret Room
3) Collect the Caps...
4) Into the Igloo
yep these have a chance of someday becoming a cannonless capless star
your page is very nice, i didn't know about the hidden extra life in whomp's fortress' tower! you can do a funny move on that hole if you duck and do continuous backflip inside of it :) BLJ doesn't give extra speed though, the ceiling is same height as the plataform to the right of it.
i also didn't know about that teleport...
edit: sorry about this edit, myles might miss this one but... the post count is increasing too fast in this thread. ok anyway, how do you count in seconds the times for speedrun, where exactly do you start to count? because i'm watching a video by Myles of "to the top of the fortress in 0:18" and it looks way slower than the TAS... i counted starting from the last frame the screen is 100% white untill the first frame mario touches the star. But come to think of it, the TAS being 0:15 maybe it's the right way to count.
Sounds like Eye to Eye in the Secret Room should be easy enough to do with the backwards jumping glitch. If I knew how to pull it off, I'd give it a try.
TASing or playing back a DOS game? Make sure your files match the archive at RGB Classic Games.
hopper:
The problem with that is that I don't seem to recall any platform that moves or is shaped in such a way that you could use it, unless you could somehow clip through the floor from below from somewhere else, and as far as we know the glitch can only build horizontal momentum because you're long jumping.
The thing is Filimonas, those times will be simple to match on a re-recording emulator, and most of them will probably be fairly easy to beat as well (the longer stars in particular, where a lot of small improvements can be made). "Stand Tall on the Four Pillars", for example, is the longest star on your hard list, and would be trivial to beat when you can optimize the boss fight. The reason I can't do it is because I don't have the time to keep restarting the entire level over again to redo the ending.
For example, say that you have to complete 3 tricks that each have a success rate of 10%. On an actual console, it would take you about 1000 tries to complete them, while on a TAS it would take about 30 tries.
So I guess what I'm saying is that while it will indeed be interesting to compare the two lists of times, you can't run a competition including both sets. And a lot of the times won't be "almost impossible to beat"... it's the other way around... a lot of the TAS times will be almost impossible to beat on a console.
I know there is an issue of pride but I think any practice of comparing a TAS with a real speed run should be discouraged. A TAS is a mostly academic pursuit of optimization with knowledge of game mechanics, entertaining but not skillfull. A speed run is more like sports in that it requires rigorous training, endurance, and skill and I watch them to be left in awe at what gamers can achieve.
Ohh and Curtis, your site www.sm64.com is amazing :) I especially like that page on the impossible coin.
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The thing is Filimonas, those times will be simple to match on a re-recording emulator, and most of them will probably be fairly easy to beat as well (the longer stars in particular, where a lot of small improvements can be made). "Stand Tall on the Four Pillars", for example, is the longest star on your hard list, and would be trivial to beat when you can optimize the boss fight. The reason I can't do it is because I don't have the time to keep restarting the entire level over again to redo the ending.
I know. That's why I used the word almost. These are the stars, that I consider "pixel perfect" on a console. Of course there is always much time hidden in a better backflip or a more accurate triple jump. But I am still positive that FODA won't be able to beat (not match) most of the "hard" times.
CBright wrote:
And a lot of the times won't be "almost impossible to beat"... it's the other way around... a lot of the TAS times will be almost impossible to beat on a console.
And If this will be a good TAS then it should be: "most of the TAS times must be impossible to beat on a console. ;)
But you want to compare to make sure you beat all the times!
Yeah reference values are good and a TAS should definitely always 'beat' console. But some people think there is an unfair competition and I was just trying to discourage that.
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Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
Ok here's my full whomp's fortress WIP. It's 1252 frames (20 seconds) faster than the v30 WIP which plays 100 coins and no blast away the wall (with it's time subtracted for fair comparison).
And it's 65 frames faster than the v38 WIP which played all stars but the 100 coins (61 frames faster on the cage star, 4 frames faster on the blast away the wall star).
I think the 100 coin route looks pretty tight considering i have to wait for the spinning bridge so it looks like anything before that is not improveable, as i reachthe bridge barely on time to get the 1st yellow coin on it. Some may wonder why did i take 9 coins from the whomp instead of only 8 and then taking the last yellow coin on the spinning bridge, but then i'd have to wait a little more at the bridge, but this way i am free to go for the pirana plant as soon as i get the yellow coin that is located right after the red coin on the bridge, since the constraint here is the bridge itself.
I gave up the blue coin on the second pirana plant because it was too much out of the way and i had to wait for the coin to appear. If i killed the pirana and then went away too fast the coin wouldn't appear. Even if i went for that red coin under the island, that would be far enough for the coin to not appear.
(also it's 2 minutes and 7 seconds faster than the 120 star testrun)
http://www.angelfire.com/ex/uobt/supermario64-foda-120stars-wip-v43.zip
savestate (slot 9):
http://rapidshare.de/files/11686142/sm64savestate9-v38.zip.html
My comments:
1)I think you can leave the owl earlier and then dive to the star.
2)Did you try to get to the top of the fortress using your route?
3)For shoot to the wild blue, why don't you try to glitch through the wall after your 2nd dive and then long jump?Or is it far, so that you don't make it up to the platform?
4)The 100 coins were good. I didn't like the very last part that you slide. Can't you just long jump and take damage? It is also good that the stone push you closer to the other star. ; )
I forgot.
5)Can you get the "blast away the wall" by triple-jumping from the other side and wall kick (like you do for the 100 coins)? So that you don't have to get up to the rotating platform at all.
That was surprising. I thought you had determined that grabbing the top of the tower and pulling yourself up was the fastest way to get the star at the top of the fortress. Looks a little nicer now.
I loved your 100 coin star in Whomp's Fortress, especially getting pushed off of the ledge while you collect it.
Fantastic stuff.
TASing or playing back a DOS game? Make sure your files match the archive at RGB Classic Games.
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
FILIM0NAS wrote:
1)I think you can leave the owl earlier and then dive to the star.
humm i didn't think of that... why didn't you say earlier? : / oh well... i don't think i'll remake because of that, i took nearly 2 hours to get the blast away the wall star, it was a real pain. (unless someone can help me hex-editing? i have never hex-edited a n64 movie file before, only fceu)
edit: ok i tried it but i couldn't dive in becasue when i released from the owl i get pushed away from it, so if i dive i get pushed even farther away. But i'm sure i'm released from the owl better before, while playing normally... i don't know
FILIM0NAS wrote:
2)Did you try to get to the top of the fortress using your route?
yea it was slower (about 1 second).
FILIM0NAS wrote:
3)For shoot to the wild blue, why don't you try to glitch through the wall after your 2nd dive and then long jump?Or is it far, so that you don't make it up to the platform?
i can only enter the wall through the triangle at the top, that triangle has no colision check.
FILIM0NAS wrote:
4)The 100 coins were good. I didn't like the very last part that you slide. Can't you just long jump and take damage? It is also good that the stone push you closer to the other star. ; )
i can't long jump and take damage because then i have to wait for mario to finish his damaging to end before he can jump high enough to get the star (in this case the plataform was going away, when i got down there it was totally inside the wall). but because of this then the stone pushed me towards the star yep :)
FILIM0NAS wrote:
5)Can you get the "blast away the wall" by triple-jumping from the other side and wall kick (like you do for the 100 coins)? So that you don't have to get up to the rotating platform at all.
i tried that but it's way too high. i even tried to wall kick and try to grab it above but i couldn't.
(unless someone can help me hex-editing? i have never hex-edited a n64 movie file before, only fceu)
Actually I think hex-editing should work fine in this game (since there's barely any randomness), so you should give it a try, it will make it much easier to improve various stars if it works. Here is (I think) all you need to know to hex edit it, given that you already know how to do it for FCEU movies:
- You can edit the M64 file directly, no need to convert it to an FMV file like with FCEU movies. (There might be problems if you try to do it while the movie's open in the emulator though, so it's probably safer to stop the movie first and close the hex editor before playing it.)
- Each 'frame' is 4 bytes instead of 1 byte, so you'll have to multiply your frame numbers by 4 before using them in the hex editor
- The movie header is 1024 bytes, so add 1024 to those to get the actual position in the file
- There are 2 different frame counts shown in the emulator, so you need to know which one to use. Use the one that's smaller (the "input samples counter") and ignore the other one.
- The movie lengths are stored in the header, but I don't think you have to worry about editing those, at least not if the change you're making makes the movie shorter.
- If you want more info about the format, like if you want to know what button presses the numbers translate to, see http://tasvideos.org/m64.html
- Besides that it should be basically the same as for FCEU movies.
Looking great FODA. Just one comment on potential strategy...
In the first world (I forget if it's JRB or DDD) in the 8 red coins star, you make a very quick 180 in mid-air right after gathering the 8th to get the star. Could this be done at will, or does the screen have to pause (like it did to show the star animation) for it to work?
I make this comment, because in general, turning around in Mario 64 is quite slow at times (on console), and this makes taking a 180 look almost seamless. :)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
I don't turn in mid-air, i turn while on the ground and then jump on the first frame of the breaking animation so it looks like instant 180 turning+jump. I don't know exactly what you meant : /
I'm running in one direction, then +1 frame i hold opposite direction then +1 frame i hold A+B+that opposite direction.
I don't turn in mid-air, i turn while on the ground and then jump on the first frame of the breaking animation so it looks like instant 180 turning+jump. I don't know exactly what you meant : /
I'm running in one direction, then +1 frame i hold opposite direction then +1 frame i hold A+B+that opposite direction.
Yeah, I'm sorta bad at explaining things, but that was the answer I wanted.
I tried it out on a console, and you were actually making a sideway's jump, but just pressed the dive button really quickly, I get it. :).
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
25 stars:
- 2nd princess secret slide: i didn't spend too much time here, what's the best time known in speedruns using the this strategy? i got 12'6"
- tower of wing cap: yea it looks a little unoptimized with the non-perfectly straight flying, but it was hard to control... i do a little surprise at the end though :)
- cool-cool mountain: i think this looks overall very good. the first 2 stars were 78 frames faster than spezzafer's. yep.
I tried to get 2 extra lives on "snowman's lost his head" but i couldn't do it on time so i went only for the extra life in the box. maybe i should go for the one in the tree it looks better i guess.
the movie (25 stars WIP):
http://www.angelfire.com/ex/uobt/supermario64-foda-120stars-wip-v45.zip
slot 9 savestate before whomp's fortress (same as before):
http://rapidshare.de/files/11686142/sm64savestate9-v38.zip.html
slot 8 savestate right after whomp's fortress
http://rapidshare.de/files/11890586/sm64savestate8-v45.zip.html
so, comments?
Looking great... I especially enjoyed getting the red coins.
Don't know if it matters much in time, but it seemed that at least 7 coins less could be collected at the snowman star.
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
I think the amount of coins I get only add up frames at the end of the stage if I get more than 100 coins. They made it so counting 100 coins takes as much time as the "mario scratching his head and putting hat back on" animation, so if I get 100 coins exactly, it still takes as much time as 0 coins.
OMG the 100 coin star in CCM was awesome! I love seeing the penguin barreling down on you as you collect the star. Mario looks super cool sliding along with one outstretched leg as he waits for the snowman's body to arrive. You've done a lot of work this week!
TASing or playing back a DOS game? Make sure your files match the archive at RGB Classic Games.
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjavík, Ísland
Wow, that was just amazing. I'm sorry, but I couldn't think of anything to improve it other than the obvious things (are you sure you couldn't get the CCM 100 coin star without sliding all the way down and then going back up even though it wouldn't save any time, etc).
I would like to say that I think the "get snowman's body" star would look better if you would actually slide all the way to the pedestal with the head instead of jumping down and getting that 1-up. Then after getting to (jumping over?) the pedestal, you've shown the audience that you're way ahead and can proceed to do a bit of showing off before the body arrives. It's just a minor aesthetic thing. It is a pretty boring star so I'm not sure how entertaining it can get...
Edit: maybe you could go in circles around the body as it rolls down. :D
