This topic is for the purpose of discussing #859: Genisto's NES Dragon Warrior in 18:43.00

The movie keeps what it promises so good job :)

This always desyncs near the end for me, for some reason (Stoneman fight that shouldn't be there, in the last area before the Dragonlord's room) ... But from what I can see, the time saved/lost from the changes mostly evens out until the end, where you had 1 more MP than me, allowing to use Hurt one more time (the whole fight even) and gain about 30 seconds right there. And looking at the re-record count being almost 10x higher than mine ... was most of it from the Dragonlord fight, to get Hurt to work?

Well done. Less buying, and consequently less fighting of Goldmen, and more use of death has really sped this movie up. It was good to see the Dragonlord fight done entirely with magic. My only question is about the second trip south to get Erdrick's Armor. Is there any possibility of fighting the Metal Slimes, fighting the Axe Knight to get the armor, then getting Erdrick's Token and allowing yourself to die in a fight, or would it be impossible to manipulate a victory against the Axe Knight without Sleep? Either way, I vote Yes.

It is faster to buy the herb(s) in garinham instead of brecconary. I'll have more comments later but it desyncs at the 1st metal slime fight so i'll have to find the proper rom

You hesitated slightly one time in town. And also you return to the area with the Metal Slimes to get the Armor, and from what I can tell between those two thing all you do is get the Token, and buy some keys, AFAICT, neither of which is necessary to get the Armor. Would it be faster if you got the Armor before the Token and then kill yourself in a random encounter?

Would it be faster if you got the Armor before the Token and then kill yourself in a random encounter?

That was my question. I assume the reason why he gets the Token first is because he needs MP in order to cast Sleep. Being at level 7 increases his strength, but he doesn't gain any HP or MP until he has died, healed, or visited an inn. He would have to fight the Axe Knight without magic and with the HP of a level 1 character, and without proper weapons and armor. I do wonder if it's possible, but the Axe Knight would probably have to miss every turn.

If Genisto didn't use Acmlm's damage planning utility, they should get together, use Genisto's new path and Acmlm's utility, and iron out the problems people have brought up. Also what would be really cool is if you could get together with Bisqwit to make BisqBot plan out walking sequences throughout the whole game. I'm sure where and when you choose to stop moving to avoid battles is not optimal, just because it would take you too long to test all the possibilities.

I have found this run a bit more entertaining than the previous one, and it is faster, too. Voting yes.

There is no way to avoid Axe Knight's attack at Level 7 and don't have enough Max HP to resist of minimum damages before he fall. Level 9 with the Bamboo Pole (Atk + 2) and the Clothes (Def + 2) are the minimum requirements to beat him (Plan managed in my preview version). About random encounter: I already managed to minimize the lost of frames to control this random, but it will require months of test. Don't forget the random to find the Metal Slimes lol. About the lost of times in a town: it's to prevent a character to be on my way (a control random).

What if you healed with herbs during the Axe Knight battle?

Even if you use herbs, you'd just waste a turn and get hit for even more HP than you healed ... Axe Knight does about 25-45 damage (kills in 1-2 hits) and never misses, takes 4-5 hits to kill, but sometimes uses Sleep ... now if you could force it to always use Sleep and make it fail each time (wake up right after), it'd be beatable, but Sleep always seems to last at least one turn. Also, if it's ever possible to go first against a Metal Slime on Level 1 (if the above doesn't work), you can get the Erdrick's Token without any healing, avoiding the whole trip to town ... but I haven't been able to get this to work either. Other than that, I can't think of any new improvements ...

This may be a little out there, but what about buying Fairy Water in Breconary? I assume it prevents you from being attacked by raising your Luck. If you could still manipulate luck to make sure that you get attacked, maybe it would be enough to get the first attack. Erm, let me just check if you can buy it without a key. EDIT: Okay, you need a key. And even if you didn't, you would have to go to Breconary, which is what we're trying to avoid. Yeah, the brain isn't working that well today. The ideas I have left aren't very good, but here goes. You could go to Rimildar first, kill a Goldman and get the key purchase out of the way, assuming that you can kill a Goldman on level 1, which maybe you can't. You would level up, then you could die to return to Tantagel and be all set to fight the Metal Slimes without ever visiting Breconary. Nope, that would require a Herb to get through the swamp. Yeah, never mind. I've got nothing.

Bahaha this video is hilarious. Despite the fact that every single action in this game looks to be inefficient somehow, getting the magic armor and reducing the herb purchases and use speeds this video up so much that it beats the previous record nicely. Total yes vote. Erm, scratch that. I would vote yes, but it appears I'm still on lurker status. Either that or I'm really really blind and can't find how to vote. So this is a hypothetical plus one, or something. I don't know.

I couldn't find how to vote when I first got here either, so I know how it is :) First of all, make sure you're logged in, if you are, and you have "user status" (which means that you can vote), you should see a box with three radio buttons, "Yes", "No" and "Meh", at the top of this page. If you don't see that box, I guess you still have have lurker status.

If you don't see that box, I guess you still have have lurker status.

I think the requirements for voting rights were increased / changed. One of my friends I introduced to the site now has over 15 posts and has been signed up for over a month, and he still isn't able to vote.

Hm, yeah, that does seem like a bit much. I liked the idea that the general public could vote on the movies, not just "the in crowd".

I agree, but I also don't want someone to create new accounts to vote for their own movie. The number of posts should be reasonably small, but not small enough to make the privilege easy to abuse.

Lifted from a different thread:

Not to imply anything, but somehow the value of posts like that decreases in my eye when both the praised and the praiser post from the same IP address.

Bisqwit tends to keep an eye out for stuff that could be possible signs of abuse, at least from what I've seen. I wouldn't think there also needs to be such a large hurdle to clear before one can vote (not that I know what it is). However, voting isn't imperative because it's a tool to help the judges decide what to publish rather than dictate it.

Bravo! I was a big DW fan back in the day. I thought the replay was awesome and would love to see it published, with a star even. I just wanted to say that because I can't vote. ;-)

This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [440] NES Dragon Warrior by Genisto in 18:43.00

Axe Knight does about 25-45 damage (kills in 1-2 hits) and never misses, takes 4-5 hits to kill, but sometimes uses Sleep ... now if you could force it to always use Sleep and make it fail each time (wake up right after), it'd be beatable, but Sleep always seems to last at least one turn. Also, if it's ever possible to go first against a Metal Slime on Level 1 (if the above doesn't work), you can get the Erdrick's Token without any healing, avoiding the whole trip to town ... but I haven't been able to get this to work either.

After some more messing around recently, I found this: - If a battle I want only comes up after a lot of walking, waiting a bit with the game unpaused can shorten it by multiples of 16 tiles (for every 16 frames) - You go first if (your agility * random 0-255) > (monster's agility * random 0-63) - Highest possible at the start is 6, and Metal Slime got 255, so the odds for the above are around 1/21. Low, but possible! (after leveling up, agility goes up to 12 and the odds become 1/10) - I managed to get it to work with fairly short waits, for all 4 battles up to Level 7 By not going to town at all, doing this, and getting Erdrick's Token from the shorter side of the swamp (but the path is longer and the metal slime area is small), I saved 27 seconds over the current published run: Up to Erdrick's Token But unless I can find more ways to improve it, the rest will stay exactly the same (just redone), maybe a few seconds faster if I can get better luck manipulation ... I tried thinking of several ways but they all had more loss than gain: - Axe Knight isn't beatable on the first trip to get Erdrick's Token, its Sleep always lasts at least one full turn before the 1/2 chance to wake up can work - I'd save almost 2 minutes by not getting Erdrick's armor, but lose it all back (+ more) at the end, from needing healing and not having enough MP to use Hurt all the way against the Dragonlord - I can try to get both Wings (Rimuldar and at the end) and use the first one instead of dying when going out of Rimuldar, but getting it (and the gold for 2 more keys) takes too long to be worth it ... same if I want to use it after getting Erdrick's armor - It might be possible to kill the Axe Knight and Goldman in one less hit each, if it doesn't require near perfect luck (for monster HP and damage) that'd add too many seconds of waiting - Rimuldar is unreachable on Level 1 without healing But a 27 second improvement is already good, even if it's all from a single change ...

Well, continue on, that's good start at least.

The chance of something like that movie happening is slim to none. You can't run through the whole game WITHOUT running into enemies, except when it seems fit for the player. And you can't get excellent move on EVERY single hit, and sleep works every time without them waking up. I do'nt know why these people think this is talent...