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Posted: 3/9/2006 7:04 PM
(Edited: 4/14/2006 7:35 PM)
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2478)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
2nd Boss defeated in 12:30. [link removed] There's a savestate so that you (Angerfist?, Fabian?) don't need to watch it from the beginning. If someone manages to find 1 frame of improvement at any point, I'll re-record it. Edit: Purposeless link removed.
Posted: 3/11/2006 4:43 AM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
It looks very good, and that's an admirable work ethic. At 9:45 when going down the ladder, to me it looked faster to jump down to the right, but I'm sure you tested them both. One question. When you're standing (walking) somewhere and are about to fall down, does it save time to jump right before the ledge, speeding up acceleration? You did jump before the fall at 10:53, but not in some other places I thought it might save time, like 9:52 and 11:35. Ok I just tested it, and not jumping beforehand at 10:53 cost about 5 frames, so I'm guessing jumping might save time in the places I suggested, and possibly in other places as well.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 3/11/2006 8:53 AM
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AngerFist
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
First edition TAS of 2015 Innovative TAS of 2007
What Fabian said. Very nice job so far and try that "jump before pit" thingy to gain more frames.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Posted: 3/12/2006 1:30 AM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2478)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
Hey, great if you found some improvements Fabian! (I can't check them out right now because I'm not on my own machine.) I have tried to be perfect with the acceleration, though. For example, at 9:45 it's faster to hit the left wall and then start going right. Also, prejumps aren't always a timesaver. I can easily forget to test some things, so it's good that you keep your eyes on this. Thanks guys. By the way, I was wrong when I thought that this game is completely flawless. As you saw in the Gragg & Glagg fight, I made the remaining one release only 1 boulder when there should always be 2 rolling. Another tiny flaw is that if you leave the cannibal scene (after reading the text: The dwarf child is in danger!), you are unable to cast magic until you go fight the cannibals or visit Inn. :)
Posted: 3/13/2006 4:11 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2478)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
Ok. At 9:52 I don't need to go down fast, you see, I'm on my way to the left. (It's slower to turn in the air.) Same thing with 11:35, I'm traveling to the right at full speed, so it doesn't matter how fast I come down. Actually, I just realized that even the jump at 10:53 does not save time because I need to wait for the spears anyway. At 6:45 the jump really saves a couple of frames because I'm going down to grab the ladder.
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:34 PM
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maTO
Skilled player (1512)
Joined: 4/28/2005
Posts: 240
Location: Finland
Sega TASer of 2009
Aqfaq, are you sure the beginning can't be done more quickly? Or does the next screen after beginning depend on in what frame you enter the screen. Here's my test input which is 3 frames faster: 00:19-00:20 start 01:22-01:23 start 01:25-01:26 start 07:07-07:08 c 12:08-12:09 c 13:03-13:04 c 18:10-18:11 c 20:29-20:30 c 20:32-20:33 down 21:26-23:50 right But after I get the coins for 18 gold, I have to wait lots of frames before the snakes change the item they give from heart to 2 gold and I'm messed. edit: What I really mean is that, from where it is counted when 2 gold coins can be got from snakes. From beginning of the game or from beginning of the 2nd screen (snakes).
Projects: Warlock, Ren & Stimpy (impr) / Generations Lost (impr.)
Posted: 3/19/2006 12:48 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2478)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
maTO wrote:
From beginning of the game or from beginning of the 2nd screen (snakes).
I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's from the beginning of the game. That makes things very complicated. About the unoptimized beginning... It's been a while when I recorded that part, so I can't remember whether I lose those frames intentionally or not. I'll check it out soon.
Posted: 3/19/2006 9:00 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2478)
Joined: 4/8/2005
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Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
Good to have you here, maTO. :) I saved 1 frame in the start sequence. The fastest beginning I can get is: 00:19 start 01:22 start 01:30 start Could you try again to see if you still get it faster than this? Maybe the game was desyncing with you. I found out that items can be equipped a bit faster by pressing some buttons simultaneously. I redid all the equipping sequences and hex-edited them to the movie. No desync happened because pressing start stops the in-game clock. 9 frames were saved. I'll be continuing the run now. I'm almost at the Sphinx.
Posted: 3/20/2006 3:13 AM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Sounds great. Can't wait to see updates.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 3/20/2006 10:30 AM
(Edited: 4/14/2006 7:36 PM)
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2478)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
Sphinx defeated: [link removed] Collecting the secret magic stuff in the pyramid costs about 11 seconds. The bosses have invulnerability period of 30 frames. So, 22 Power hits is enough to gain back the seconds. I wait 48 frames before entering the Sphinx room to get as short questions as possible. The set of questions changes about every 16-128 frames. (Only the in-game clock affects this.) One letter costs 6 frames. Here are all the possible questions, bold is what I got: Which of these items is not sold at the Wanderer weapon shop? (61 letters) After defeating Gragg & Glagg, what did you receive? (52) What’s the name of the queen in the elf village? (48) What item helped you to traverse Maugham Desert? (48) Which of these monsters did you battle first? (45) Which of these stores does not sell weapons? (44) What’s the first type of magic you acquired? (44) Which key do you need to enter the Pyramid? (43) What’s the name of the dwarf village? (37) How much does a charmstone cost? (32) This went extremely well. I think it might be impossible to be any faster at this point of the game, unless some major improvement was found. You'd need to be at least 1,5 seconds faster at the Sphinx door to save any time at all. Next stop: Ice-World. That will be one of the hardest parts, I guess. I've been trying to use the enemies as platforms, but failed to reach high enough. I included a savestate in the ZIP, so you can try it too. Edit: Purposeless link removed.
Posted: 3/23/2006 12:43 PM
(Edited: 4/14/2006 7:37 PM)
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Aqfaq
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Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
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The Ice Bomber is defeated: [link removed] What do you think about that? Edit: Purposeless link removed.
Posted: 3/23/2006 1:09 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
You work really fast and the results are really really good. I can't find anything to improve. Poor Ice Bomber! Awesome, keep it up and this will be finished in no time :)
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 3/23/2006 1:59 PM
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Gorling
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 40
Location: Sweden
I just spoke to Fabian about some things I identified as flaws but after he explained the mechanics of the game to me I realised that this is as close to optimal you can get. Good work man.
Posted: 3/23/2006 2:29 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2478)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
Fabian wrote:
You work really fast and the results are really really good.
The good thing about long games is that the closer the end you get, the easier the recording becomes. For example, I've learned how the character moves, so I don't need to think about it all the time. That leaves more brain capacity for other things. Thanks for watching the WIP.
Posted: 3/23/2006 5:52 PM
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Truncated
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Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
Just a question: do you really need to turn on the light the first time around? Is is impossible to climb down the ladder without having done so?
Posted: 3/23/2006 8:49 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2478)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
Yup, it's impossible to climb in the dark. :/
Posted: 3/23/2006 10:26 PM
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RAMPKORV
Joined: 3/6/2005
Posts: 15
Location: Sweden
Which is a good thing. It'd be pretty boring to watch the movie otherwise :P
Posted: 3/28/2006 12:48 AM
(Edited: 4/14/2006 7:40 PM)
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2478)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
Hah! I found a funny bug that makes switches rise higher than they should. Unfortunately, there's no place where it could be used to save time. Here is the updated WIP and two savestates that demonstrate the new bug: [removed] Tyrant Dragon is defeated, but I'll test some improvement ideas before continuing. Edit: I found a way to use an enemy to get inside a wall. I updated the file with a new savestate. Edit-2: I saved 53 frames in the passage that leads to the ice world. I'm redoing the movie from there. Edit-3: Purposeless link removed.
Posted: 3/29/2006 3:19 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Ugh, that's alot to redo. Hope hexing in some stuff works. Anyway, I don't have anything new to say really. It's still looking very good. Keep it up!
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 3/29/2006 4:16 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2478)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
There's no way to hex-edit anything (except menu handling) because of the "random" enemy movements. Heeh... After two minutes of gameplay the irritating penguins have reduced my 53 frames of improvement to 17 frames! However, the 17 frames may turn into a large improvement, if the monsters in the later screens act nicely. The only way to know is to continue recording. --- Edit: I lost everything. Gaining 53 frames at the ice world passage seems to have saved no time at all. The monsters moved differently and dodging/manipulating them cost more than 53 frames. This game has unique requirements for luck manipulation. I'll get back to the old movie now. If everything goes well, I'll finish this project quite soon.
Posted: 3/29/2006 8:58 PM
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MattyXB
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
Looks great so far. Some questions. 1. After you rescue the little dwarf child one screen before you enter the town and talk to the mother. You wait some Frames. Was this for luck manipulation from the 2 enemies? (near Time 9:07:00) 2. The 2nd Boss (the 2 Stone Heads, Gragg & Glagg). The left one, which you hit first. Why you wait so long, till you hit him the last time? Is he invisible at this time? Or why you wait? First you wait for the 2 stones, but then you go to the head and wait again. (near Time 12:15:00) 3. You wait some Frames before you enter the third Boss (Spinhx or how it called). Does the questions then smaller, that it goes faster? (near Time 18:50:00) Was the last question wrong? It sound like wrong. Do you only need the key in the pyramid? Must only the last question be wrong to get this key? And at last commend: Only one from the SaveStates work for me. All other desync the movie by me. The SaveState with the Ice Bomber Boss Fight work.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Posted: 3/29/2006 9:30 PM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2478)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
1. Yes, I manipulate the enemies. It looks bad, but should be the fastest solution. I might have used fire magic there, but I need to save that for later. 2. Normally, there are always 2 stones rolling, but if you kill Gragg JUST when it's going to release the stone, the stone disappears completely. That way I have plenty of time to smash Glagg because it releases only 1 stone. I guess that's a minor programming error. 3. I wait to manipulate as short questions as possible. The text goes very slowly and can't be sped up. Only 4/5 of the questions must be right to proceed. It was slightly faster to answer wrong once.
MattyXB wrote:
Only one from the SaveStates work for me. All other desync the movie by me.
Only one savestate (BOSS-3.gs1) is for the movie. The other savestates demonstrate bugs. Thanks for watching the movie!
Posted: 4/1/2006 5:54 AM
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Aqfaq
Editor, Expert player (2478)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Sega TASer of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
Finished in 42:10:26. I need to check a few things before submitting anything.
Posted: 4/1/2006 9:34 AM
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AngerFist
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
First edition TAS of 2015 Innovative TAS of 2007
Aqfaq wrote:
Finished in 42:10:26.
Kickass! You better have submitted it when I've arrived from work later today :)
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Posted: 4/1/2006 6:39 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Very kickass indeed! I'm expecting it to be submitted when I return from the store in 25 minutes ;) Great job!
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
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