Joined: 6/21/2004
Posts: 72
Location: Michigan, USA
after watching a bunch of these speed runs, I decided to try one for myself. So I did Milon's Secret Castle. My total time is 9:20, but I think sub-9:00 should be possible with some better boss fighting, and I grabbed a bit of money I could've done without, but I think I have the fastest path.
http://abharrie.misterdotnet.com/MilonSC.rar
This was a lot harder to do than I thought it would be, but was a whole lot of fun.
-Cheez
Aah! Why are you using a .rar??? Those are so annoying.
Anyway, I'll look at it now and tell you what I think
Edit:
Theres a much simpler method to make it under 9 minutes. End the movie sooner! You ended it about 20 seconds late!
You're also right about the boss fights
And you could have killed the enemies at the beggining a bit faster. Unless you were moving around to affect the randomness
Oh, and try not to waste shots.
Joined: 6/21/2004
Posts: 72
Location: Michigan, USA
I'm still not entirely sure what makes the keys appear in the levels, but I think after some playing around, that it's killing 5 enemies, so yeah, the first level could've been done a lot faster. I also just figured out if I grab the bee and the honeycomb on the way down the well, and the honeycomb before the well boss, I can get through it without the vest, so I can skip that one entire level where I buy that.
Some of my shooting was to try and affect randomness, but some it was just being sloppy.
-Cheez
He doesn't have to. I just don't like .rars. Mostly because i have a crappy unrarer. I'm not quite sure what you are saying, because it doesn't make sense. If you are asking if he has to use another format, then no, not when hes just showing it off online, though I think that Bisqwit doesn't accept .rars either(or at least prefers not to) Anyway, most people just zip files because they are easier to uncompress. I don't even think that Windows comes with a default unrarer(might be wrong)
I use winrar too, but I don't like it. At least if you are using XP, you can go through .zips like regular folders. You need a program to uncompress .rars. Anyway, every pretty much everyone has a way to uncompress .zips. Not everyone can uncompress .rars(without having to go download something to do it)
Joined: 6/21/2004
Posts: 72
Location: Michigan, USA
well, I redid my run, skipped getting the vest, did the first level faster (for some reason the key wouldn't appear unless I grabbed those $2 near the end), fought the bosses a bit better, wasted less shots, and ended the movie sooner. Total time is now 7:50
and I put it in a .zip this time ;)
http://abharrie.misterdotnet.com/MilonSC.zip
and the *only* reason I used .rar the first time, is because I could just right-click the .fmv and choose "Add to MilonSC.rar" it had nothing to do with compression, just saving some time.
-Cheez
ME has built-in zip support like XP does, but 9x doesn't.
ZIP is fine for files like fmvs because they're highly repetetive text (ever look at one in a text editor?) and you probably won't get much more space saved by making it a rar.
RAR is great for large files like movies and CD images because of its more complex algorithm which will compress many times smaller than ZIP would.
TAR I'm not sure about, but I think that even if you get an incomplete file you can still extract whatever pieces you do have without issue unlike ZIP/RAR.
I have been slowly grinding out a new TAS of this game for quite a while now. Here is what I have so far (made with BizHawk 2.4.0):
Link to video
Hisatoki's movie is very tightly optimized, and has hardly shown its age in the way other decade+ old TASes tend to. There is not much obvious room for improvement. I would normally leave it alone, but, unfortunately, the TAS was recorded with a bad dump, and cannot be played back on any other ROM because the randomness is totally different. Because of this, I've set out to make a more accurate run of this game, using a new emulator and a verified good dump.
To the naked eye, my WIP most likely does not look all that different from the published TAS, because the lag reduction/movement optimization is far from immediately apparent. In my opinion, there are two timesavers that stand out:
- In the well, it is possible to jump after grabbing the balloon, which shortens the slow ascent to the ceiling.
- In the last room (in the WIP), it costs no time to turn into little Milon, which increases precision when turning.
The biggest barrier to making a good TAS of this game is the appalling way this game handles randomness. The RNG in this game is completely frame-based, and does not change based on player control. In addition, while certain luck-based things (like item drops from enemies) change from frame to frame, others (which are more important, like the position of enemies when you enter a room) have something like a ~10 frame cycle to change. It is hard to describe how annoying this is, because killing enemies to upgrade your weapon is a major part of the run. As a consequence, it is not rare for any savings you have to get quickly neutralized just because the game feels like it.
My WIP is generally optimized, but I am not entirely satisfied with it, so it will likely be redone. I was handed rotten luck on the fourth boss, which eliminated a lot of what I had saved. But it's a good proof of concept anyway.
It doesn't seem like there is a massive speedrunning community for this game, but since the current run is, as stated, very old, I doubt I am the only one who has expressed interest in TASing it since its publication. So, if you have any other info, or just want to express interest of your own, feel free to share. (I could've made this post more detailed, but it seemed like overkill for an introduction.)
Are you using the JP version or the US version? It's because the current run uses JP, while there's a obsoleted run which uses US.
Also, good luck improving that published run ;)
My homepage
--Currently not much motived for TASing as before...--
But I'm still working.
Yes, I intend to stick with the Japanese version. Given the sensitivity of luck in this game, there is no chance a run made on the U.S. ROM would sync on the Japanese ROM and vice versa, so, in my opinion, it is probably best to be directly comparable with the published movie.
I didn't mention this above, but it should be noted that L+R in this game allows Milon to walk right while facing left, which saves time killing those two enemies at the start of the first room. I also use it in the WIP to kill the fourth boss, but it's slower than an optimal fight with a better luck pattern would be (like in Hisatoki's TAS).
Oh neat, Milon.
I was briefly looking at this game a few months ago but couldn't find any obvious improvements to the old TAS. Props to you for improving the old movie. I'm excited to see more.
Nice to see someone is trying to improve this obscure game.
Lagging is fine. Most console cores produce more lags for more accurate emulation. So, don't be afraid if a perfectly done room is slower because of lags. BTW, lag reduction is a honorable deed.
Did you try to skip 1 or 2 frames before entering a room to get better RNG?
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Boring TAS update: Unfortunately, I was nearly finished with this run when I discovered by a pure chance that Milon runs 1 frame faster if you tap right the frame he first appears. This is too significant of a timesave to ignore, given that every frame in this game is important to randomness, so I had to start over for the third time. (I recorded the first 2000 frames again, which you can see here, but it's nothing too different from the published run so far, so it's only really notable as a historical curiosity.)
Even though I'd still like to finish this movie, I'm going to place this game on low priority for now, since I'm bored of TASing it. It requires quite a lot of brainpower with all the randomness, lag, and subpixel optimization, so it's not an easy game to TAS for months on end. If someone else feels interested in giving this game a shot,feel free:) Here are the RAM addresses I collected:
003F ypos
0041 xpixel1
0045 ypixel1
0046 xpixel2
0047 speed (fastest when 1)
0048 ypixel2
004B xpos
0077 bubble timer
007A RNG
008E RNG
0090 RNG
0099 block timer
00B2 milon hp
0615 boss hp
0638 enemy hp (balloon)
0639 naruhito hp
07BE kill count
