Submission Text Full Submission Page
Firstly this is my first ever submitted TAS and secondly I could hardly of picked a more difficult and cursed game. I wasn’t really aware of that to begin with, but that was probably the factor that got me through in the end, since during the Marble to Labyrinth stages I constantly had “Oh no am I gonna be next to drop next to drop this game”. The whole process from begining to end, starting from being mildly interested to finally submitting it took about four months, but there was maybe six to seven weeks where I didn’t do any work on it whatsoever. I did a test run up until the point where I collect the last emerald in mainly 3-10% speeds with no frame counter, it was mainly just to get an idea and understanding of the game and to work out how to use GENS. The real run used 3% speed in the first stage and then frame advance from there on in.
I like to thank mainly JXQ for his great coaching and his previous run which I treated like a natural intended path. Although there was no justification for thinking it at the time, I was actually worried incase he was offended by my run for taking his ideas and applying them in a way that he would not approve. I wouldn’t personally be to bothered if someone wants to lower the ingame timer (as opposed to the real game time) by not stopping to avoid larger bonuses that impact on time and then copying my input from all the other stages. On a side note I’d like to thank Xebra for his various tips at the start, nfq for his various WIP’s at the start, which I was able to improve on later and philipptr for his WIP’s on the special stages.
  • Aims to collect all emeralds
  • Aims for fastest time
  • Avoid delays caused by bonus effects
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Manipulates luck
  • Abuses left+right movement
  • Aims for a low score
The most unique aspect of this run was delaying to avoid larger bonuses, but if I’m able to complete a stage in less than 23:333... Then I would do that. To those who disprove of that I would argue that this has a minimal effect on the overall run. However, there were three reasons for doing it
  1. Complaints that real time runs were being timed unfairly i.e. stages where being timed individually while other games included the delays inbetween as well.
  2. It makes it easier overall, but I tried to be as fast as possible while skidding just before the end. It also differentiates this from the previous in game run.
  3. It’s a goal that’s consistent throughout the game, e.g. the amount of rings has an effect on the end stage bonus, while getting +50 rings has a large delay caused by getting an extra continue.
Some say the special stages are boring, but I think that’s purely because of the simple backgrounds and music. I didn’t find them boring to work on, but they were very frustrating because of the dodgy programming involved. The stages jerk once every eight frames making the future very hard to predict. Unlike normal stages nearly all the collision is square, making corner collisions a near formality, but I took advantage of this by this using this feature to kill off and control Sonics speed. I fairly sure that most stages were done to an optimal standard. I especially enjoyed stages where bouncers could be manipulated.
Points of interest
  • Green Hill 2 - This is too difficult to see in real time but at the start when sonic hits the bee and goes through the wall he partially zips through it at the end which saves 20 frames over what would normally be done.
  • Marble 1 - I’ve actually done this quicker than the ingame run despite the fact I’ve collected +50 rings
  • Marble 2 - This took an insane amount of planning. Everthing was planned to the last detail beforehand.
  • Marble 3 - Before the end I was 11 frames ahead, but the moving platform was higher up so I had to increment it by two units costing 10 frames.
  • Spring Yard 3 - I personally found this the most frustrating stage to work on because of the timed delays, lag and position of moving platforms and slight randomess of how sonic reacts to and lands on certain platforms .
  • Star Light 2 - If you jump at certain frame while going fast up a slope Sonic will hit a ceiling boundary and his X coordinate will not increment he can move normally once he’s back on his feet. I took my time in gaining the fastest speed possible during the sine wave section.I could almost clear the second wall, but I had to let go of all input so that Sonic would sucessfully land on the platform below. Left+Right halfs Sonics velocity in a single frame during his running animation. This was a great surprise since I thought it was unlikely to come off. I’m kind of on a fence on whether Marble 1 or this stage was the highlight, I’ll let others peoples opinion dictate this .
  • Star Light 3 - Getting 45 was intentional to avoid getting a higher bonus thus saving 44 frames
  • Scrap Brain 1 - Refer to JXQ’s commentary if you don’t know what happens during the start.
  • Final Zone - I tried to do a little jig during it and also get 1:14 but the purpose of doing that was to terminate the movie as early as possible, it could be cancelled if sonic is moved to the left or is killed by jumping off the end of the stage.
Suggested description: Sonic’s first installement on the Mega Drive. Sonic has yet to learn the art of spin dashing. With the curse broken on this game, it was time to remove the all emerald curse, which has blighted the Sonic world.
Suggested Screenshot: Frame 00:59:16 or 3:58:37

Truncated: I fixed the formatting since it was destroying the forum layout. Don't start lines with a space unless you want monospace font. Don't start lines with Tabs at all.

adelikat: Rejecting this submission. All reasons have been well articulated in posts in the discussion. The main reason though is that the goals are not a publishable "category" of run.
1) It is far too similar to the current published run (it is 90% the same run) to warrant being published along side it.
Overall, obtaining emeralds makes it less entertaining than current run, making it a poor choice to obsolete it.
Therefore, the only reasonable choice is to reject the submission. Congratulations on making the highest quality run I have ever rejected though :) I hope you take what you have learned from this run and make an improved version of the current run. Good luck.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15543
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #1179: Mitjitsu's Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog in 20:58.95
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
OK that needs to be edited slightly I thought I put in bulleted points and indents, there is also a wrong word i.e begging instead of begining and 2-3 gramatical errors as well. EDIT: I voted yes because I'm biased EDIT_2: Mostly been fixed I still can't get it to indent properly.
Joined: 11/29/2005
Posts: 317
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
wich emulator did you use? I'm having problems in downloading the right emulator =/
Experienced player (614)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 612
That was fun to watch even as tedious as Sonic games can get from a spectator's point of view (not quite as sure for the player but I assume it feels good to know you get away with a lot going that quickly).
SpiDeY wrote:
wich emulator did you use? I'm having problems in downloading the right emulator =/
It works with Gens v9F for me, try that one.
Joined: 2/15/2005
Posts: 246
Location: Torquay, England
I voted yes. That was a very good run. 'nuff said
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
Very nice AKA, for your first TAS. I remember watching your first WIP, and I said to myself, this guy should stick to Zelda. Boy was I wrong. Great run of a classic game. A definite yes vote!
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Im Unable to view your wip :( Using the latest emu version: gens_movie_9j.exe
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
AngerFist wrote:
Im Unable to view your wip :( Using the latest emu version: gens_movie_9j.exe
Could you clarify why? Are you using the right rom Is it desyncing? try downloading the rapidshare one from the main topic.
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
I'm voting yes but I have one question. you said scrap brain 2 is not improved over the original, however there was some movement in that level that didn't seem optimal. the most glaring of which is the snakey land right before the end. jumping on the downward slopes really doesn't help?
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
It was a ROM issue, problem solved. About the run, it was pretty good but other than the pretty boring bonus stages, Im voting no because your run is pretty similar with JXQ's.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
bkDJ wrote:
I'm voting yes but I have one question. you said scrap brain 2 is not improved over the original, however there was some movement in that level that didn't seem optimal. the most glaring of which is the snakey land right before the end. jumping on the downward slopes really doesn't help?
I fairly certain that was optimal since jumping was the quickest way to land on the ground and hitting the roof seems to give a bit of a speed boost because Sonic rolls over it for quite a while. Rolling down the slope was the best as well since rolling is quicker on slopes and the slopes weren't angled in the right way to jump off them. I managed to improve one frame on that stage early on, but there was unfavourable lag during the first conveyor belt section which in effect costed me 2 frames meaning that I had to go back and redo it.
Joined: 2/15/2005
Posts: 246
Location: Torquay, England
NesVideoAgent wrote:
Green Hill 2 - This is too difficult to see in real time but towards the start when sonic hits the bee and goes through the wall he partially zips through it at the end which saves 20 frames over what would normally be done.
For some reason, that line breaks the tables for me. Does anyone else notice this? It didn't happen at the time I posted my previous post in this topic.
Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK
Sonic 1 is kinda dull to watch, and the bonus stages just make it worse for me. Voted Meh.
Voted NO for NO reason
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
While the run itself is indeed of top quality, I have two serious issues with it: 1)
LagDotCom wrote:
Sonic 1 is kinda dull to watch
2) I don't see any additional value in having the bonus stages complete, as they are not interesting at all (at least for me), and all the rest is pretty much the same as in JXQ's run, with some minor differences. I would have voted yes if this was an improvement over JXQ's run, but a new category solely for the bonus stages?.. I'm sorry, but I have to vote meh as well.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
moozooh wrote:
While the run itself is indeed of top quality, I have two serious issues with it: I would have voted yes if this was an improvement over JXQ's run, but a new category solely for the bonus stages?.. I'm sorry, but I have to vote meh as well.
Did you look at the table? I improved over a seconds worth of stuff.
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
AKA wrote:
Did you look at the table? I improved over a seconds worth of stuff.
:D You improved over a second worth of stuff (hardly a significant amount for a non-improvement run), but also crammed in over 2.5 minutes (!) worth of stuff which hardly can justify the distinct category. With this over a second improvement, it seems that the only reason to watch this run specifically is the bonus stages, which kinda suck per se. By the same reason it can't obsolete JXQ's run. Why would I (as I can only say for myself) need such a run?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
moozooh wrote:
AKA wrote:
Did you look at the table? I improved over a seconds worth of stuff.
:D You improved over a second worth of stuff (hardly a significant amount for a non-improvement run), but also crammed in over 2.5 minutes (!) worth of stuff which hardly can justify the distinct category. With this over a second improvement, it seems that the only reason to watch this run specifically is the bonus stages, which kinda suck per se. By the same reason it can't obsolete JXQ's run. Why would I (as I can only say for myself) need such a run?
I don't know why you've put non-improvement run in italics Mario Bros 1 only knocked off a frame. There was about three moves in the game that knocked noticable time, the rest would require a frame counter or for both runs to be in sync at the start of a level. A sequel TAS cannot knock off half a second off every stage when the previous one was already considered good. Not liking the bonus stages is fine, but to answer the question as to why you need such a run. It exists because it collects all emeralds and not to directly compete against JXQ's run. I did lower the timer on Star Light 2 you know. Its just conicidental that I could directly compete against him on certain stages. EDIT: BTW FODA has already discovered improvements that would save over a minute for the 16 star run and he's not making a 16 star run is he the same methods could easily be implemented in the next run.
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
AKA wrote:
Mario Bros 1 only knocked off a frame.
The run you're probably talking about was an improvement over the existing one. There's no point in having a longer run if there's a faster one in the same category.
AKA wrote:
A sequel TAS cannot knock off half a second off every stage when the previous one was already considered good.
Well, no surprise here. I perfectly understand why you couldn't make a significant improvement, I myself know what means "improving JXQ's run". :)
AKA wrote:
Not liking the bonus stages is fine, but to answer the question as to why you need such a run. It exists because it collects all emeralds and not to directly compete against JXQ's run.
Honestly, these emeralds mean nothing to me. They are no more entertaining than the actual levels, and the actual levels don't differ from JXQ's run that much. Again, watching this run specifically for bonus stages is definitely not for me. Hence the meh vote.
AKA wrote:
I did lower the timer on Star Light 2 you know. Its just conicidental that I could directly compete against him on certain stages.
I know. But if not for the bonus levels, watching a 21 minute run to witness 48 frames of improvement on Star Light 2? Hardly a motivating reason…
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
And that's why I voted yes. this is the fastest way to beat the game properly, whether the bonus stages are boring or not (I don't really think so, especially since I could never beat the 6th). JXQ gets a "game over try again" at the end, this gets a "the end"
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (391)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
I'm voting no. Not because the bonus stages are boring, but because the playthrough is not entertaining. There's a lot of waiting during stages and hitting left-right-left-right for single frames doesn't make it fun to watch. Also, I'm not sure that the ring collections were optimal. There are some cases where he skips rings that look easy to get, and then has to slow down significantly towards the end of the act to finish the 50. Also, since there's no Super Sonic, there's no need to collect all 6 emeralds as soon as possible. Some levels it may be more time consuming to collect rings than others. Furthermore, I disagree with the decision to wait for up to 6 seconds at the end rather than spend extra time in the score tally. Adds to speed, yes, but at a horrible cost to entertainment. This looks like a practice run rather than a finished one.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Spacecow
He/Him
Joined: 6/21/2004
Posts: 247
Location: New Hampshire
This is certainly an admirable first run. Although I really, REALLY wish you had chosen a Sonic where getting the emeralds actually matters :(
upthorn wrote:
Furthermore, I disagree with the decision to wait for up to 6 seconds at the end rather than spend extra time in the score tally. Adds to speed, yes, but at a horrible cost to entertainment.
I don't know about that. Waiting is waiting, whether it's before or after you cross the finish line. I'd rather watch Sonic mess around before crossing the finish line with the regular level music rather than with the annoying score counter beeps :) This is kind of conflicting, it's well made but maybe not the best idea for a run in the first place. I'm still gonna vote yes, though :)
Joined: 11/29/2005
Posts: 317
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
upthorn wrote:
Also, since there's no Super Sonic, there's no need to collect all 6 emeralds as soon as possible. Some levels it may be more time consuming to collect rings than others.
that's a good point but I'm still voting yes
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
upthorn wrote:
I'm voting no. Not because the bonus stages are boring, but because the playthrough is not entertaining.
So you're saying I made no attempt to entertaining.
upthorn wrote:
There's a lot of waiting during stages and hitting left-right-left-right for single frames doesn't make it fun to watch.
Then what should I have done?
upthorn wrote:
Also, I'm not sure that the ring collections were optimal. There are some cases where he skips rings that look easy to get, and then has to slow down significantly towards the end of the act to finish the 50.
Please enlighten me on this, I don't ever remember needing to significantly slow down for any rings. I've already answered in the submission why I delay at the end of stages.
upthorn wrote:
Also, since there's no Super Sonic, there's no need to collect all 6 emeralds as soon as possible. Some levels it may be more time consuming to collect rings than others.
I strongly disagree with this statement, these were in fact the best levels to collect 50 rings on. Getting all emeralds gives a different ending, an ending that not many have seen.
upthorn wrote:
Furthermore, I disagree with the decision to wait for up to 6 seconds at the end rather than spend extra time in the score tally. Adds to speed, yes, but at a horrible cost to entertainment.
Its all about consistency, the wait would have been a second longer had I not done that.
upthorn wrote:
This looks like a practice run rather than a finished one.
This is what a practice run looks like http://rapidshare.de/files/23081222/Sonic_the_Hedgehog.gmv.html
Active player (255)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 476
This is basically identical to JXQ's run except for the bonus stages and the waiting at the end of some levels to make the score tally lower (which I did not like). Voting meh.
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcuV2JdaBYY]Streets of Rage 3 (2 players)[/url]
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (391)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
AKA wrote:
upthorn wrote:
There's a lot of waiting during stages and hitting left-right-left-right for single frames doesn't make it fun to watch.
Then what should I have done?
In places where you have to wait for a platform to come down, it means you could have spent more time killing enemies/collecting rings before getting to the platform; it will move whether you're at the position or not In places where you're on a moving platform and just hit left-right-left-right to pass the time, try moving to the edge, or moving in time with the bgm. Or not doing anything. Sonic's bored animation is more entertaining than Sonic spastically twitching.
AKA wrote:
upthorn wrote:
Also, I'm not sure that the ring collections were optimal. There are some cases where he skips rings that look easy to get, and then has to slow down significantly towards the end of the act to finish the 50.
Please enlighten me on this, I don't ever remember needing to significantly slow down for any rings. I've already answered in the submission why I delay at the end of stages.
The one that really struck me was at the end of marble zone 2. There are some platforms hanging above lava, and 6 rings in between them. You slow down to collect those 6 rings, but there are 14 rings earlier in the level that you didn't get. If you hadn't had to collect those 6 rings, you could have cleared that area a couple of seconds faster.
AKA wrote:
upthorn wrote:
Also, since there's no Super Sonic, there's no need to collect all 6 emeralds as soon as possible. Some levels it may be more time consuming to collect rings than others.
I strongly disagree with this statement, these were in fact the best levels to collect 50 rings on. Getting all emeralds gives a different ending, an ending that not many have seen.
As long as you actually considered getting the emeralds on different levels, and discovered that there was no instance later on where finishing with 50 rings caused less of a delay than getting them where you did.
AKA wrote:
upthorn wrote:
Furthermore, I disagree with the decision to wait for up to 6 seconds at the end rather than spend extra time in the score tally. Adds to speed, yes, but at a horrible cost to entertainment.
Its all about consistency, the wait would have been a second longer had I not done that.
Yes, but it would have been 3-6 seconds less time of watching sonic twitch spastically. Spastic twitching never looks good. Also, fast in game times are consistently more impressive than saving a second by waiting to lower the time bonus.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.