It saves time due to the fights with Balore and the FinalGuard, but it costs much time.
Let's say getting Longinus costs 7 seconds... and it saves maybe 35% of all attacks and you cannot hit Balore 4 times a second (his eye is to high).
35% of 45 attacks are 30. You need 1 seconds for two attacks. You save 15 attacks. 15 * 0.5s = 7.5s .
Ok, let's say, it saves 5 seconds, I'll get it.
Edit: I skip the Laevatain, but I have to kill three Red Minotaurs and one Killer Mantle in this room, and the Iron Golem twice (before Hippogryph) to have enough experience. But it's still faster.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
There's still a problem... your avatar is not animated!
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
hmm... I thought slide/kick was considered a normal attack too
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
But are there different timings because of different bullet souls? For example using a bomb (bomb armor soul) then equip red minotaur, they can hit at same time (if it's possible).
Btw, I now have about 1/5 of my run complete. But compared to my previous run getting the minotaur and great armor soul cost much time (but I got them still earlier than Atma).
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
You can't have 2 different bullet souls active at the same time..
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Not as far as I know.
BTW, I've found a way to hit Manticore three times with a single spear (not that it would save any time in your run, but still…): you must stand ~on the same height as Manticore and shoot the spear while its head is barely on-screen. Then if you come closer, you'll see that it's being hit three times instead of two.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
You can hit Manticore and it's tail at the same time and then get an extra hit when the spear is nailed to the ground
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
I have hit another enemies three times (creaking skull?) but it's quite hard.
I think I don't get this mind up from the Imp because I've tried it hundred of times and it doesn't give me a mind up.
I've made some tests with the lightning doll soul and the partizan because I can get it faster than the mystletain and it's more powerful. But it's inefficient against the flame demon.
For further compares I created a list with the damage I cause to some important enemies.
Maybe it's faster to get a partizan instead of the mystletain? I also try to find out whether getting the lightning doll soul saves time.
If I'm not mistaken, Partizan is ATT +39, Mystletain is ATT +36 / Holy, and is almost twice faster to attack with. You waste ~4 seconds at most to take it and it will save more time during the fights with Great Armor and Death. Obviously, I vote for Mystletain.
BTW, you're now 32 seconds ahead of Atma, and nearly 26.5 seconds ahead of your own first try. And it's kinda awesome.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Thx!
You can cancel the lag of the Partizan. So can't you attack almost as fast as the Mystletain? But you're right, especially with this new attack method it's too slow.
Where I save and lose time with the Partizan:
-Great Armor (1 attack)
-Death 1 (3 attacks)
-Death 2 (4 attacks)
-all Tritons (1 attack)
-Flame Demon (5 attacks)
-Getting it saves about 3-4 attacks, and it doesn't cost time.
-Getting it doesn't influence the normal backdash run.
-An attack of it needs 15 frames and has a worse landing position.
-An attack of the Mystletain costs 14 frames.
-With the new attack method 2 attacks needs less time.
Say we it saves 4.5 seconds but it has a worse landing position after each battle.
There are maybe 25 battles in which I lose time because of a bad landing position, and it costs everytime 10 frames: that are 250 frames.
Now it becomes difficult...
I have to make some tests again.
Edit: Yes, it seems it's more than a second faster.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
hey, I don't know if you've checked this page already, but there you'll find this in the "Data Tables" section.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
hey, I don't know if you've checked this page already, but there you'll find this in the "Data Tables" section.
Wtf is this?!
in regards to the random number generator and
If I check this, it's far more easy to manipulate luck? If so, really THANK you!
Btw, getting Mystletain is faster than Partizan, I think now.
I tried it, but I don't get the Lightning Doll soul. I have already 35% complete.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
that RNG thing is not really important...
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
I'm not sure but maybe I found a new attack technique (I didn't made any tests) which can be used with the Black Panther soul.
Before you make an attack in air use Black Panther for a frame or so to cause some extra damage. In the next frame you can attack.
If this works it can save time especially due to the Julius battle.
I've made it to Death and I saved more than 2600 frames.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
I want to see that in action. Sounds nice!
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
If this works it can save time especially due to the Julius battle.
For the first part of the battle julius takes 4 hits before going invincible, you'd be doing minimal damage and wasting time if you did it, at least in the first half.
If this works it can save time especially due to the Julius battle.
For the first part of the battle julius takes 4 hits before going invincible, you'd be doing minimal damage and wasting time if you did it, at least in the first half.
It can also be used due to other fights. For example those Succubus' after the Graham battle. I'll try to make a video of it.
Edit: I'm not sure if it works, but it seems you don't hit with your sword if you used black panther already.
I found a new dodge technique for Death's attack throw-sickle attack. Instead of ducking you can backdash under it (when I killed him I'll post the vid again).
Very impressive Death fight, man. O_O
But why haven't you backdash-dodge the sickle the second time? It didn't look like you couldn't, unless it works only when dashing to the right…
Also, when leaving Death's room to take the Skula soul, it looked like you could have done that a couple of frames earlier.
BTW, already 53 seconds ahead! These new improvements saved even more time than I had predicted, way cool.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
It just didn't work the second time. Death's sickle had a bad angle or something.
Maybe it's not perfect, but I just didn't get Skula earlier. Maybe a bit luck manipulation would save time. I also had a annoying problem due to a zombie in the castle corridors after teleport room which couldn't be avoid with luck manipulation.
But I saved about 600 frames in the Death battle. In total it's more than 3200 frames (if you want to know it correctly, I left Death room with Skula 3212 frames earlier).
I also saved some MPs because I calculated the battle and knew how often you have to use Great Armor.
My only problem is: How can I calculate damage?
I know some things, and I tried several formulas but nothing worked correctly.
But I saved about 600 frames in the Death battle. In total it's more than 3200 frames (if you want to know it correctly, I left Death room with Skula 3212 frames earlier).
Actually not. You leave the room at frame 38043, Atma does the same at 41255 — the difference is 3182 frames, which is ~53.03 s. :)
Yrr wrote:
My only problem is: How can I calculate damage?
I know some things, and I tried several formulas but nothing worked correctly.
Have you considered that every weapon has a certain "element" which may affect its damage against certain types of monsters? I tried to calculate this myself but didn't find anything really useful (on monsters with seemingly equal defense and no specific elemental weaknesses/tolerances, Soma's attack deals different amount of damage, and I don't know the cause of it).
EDIT: Alright, finally found it. It was the only FAQ that mentioned the formula, and coincidentally was the last one I checked.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
moozooh, code your external links.
I love these game mechanics faqs...
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
moozooh, code your external links.
I love these game mechanics faqs...
LOL, you too?
So, I found it too. Here's the formula:
At first you have to calculate a temporary damage value, let's call it t.
How it's calculated depends on the attack type:
'Normal attack
t = ATT * Q
Q is a damage quotient with the value:
-1 if enemy is neutral towards the element
-2 if enemy is weak against the element
-0.5 if enemy is resistent against the element
-1.25 if enemy is weak against Normal element
'Red soul
t = { [ (STR + 60) * P ] + INT * 5 } / 160
'Blue soul
t = [ ( INT * P ) / 16 ] + P
P is the attack power of the soul.
Then you have to find out if you are in Hard Mode and/or poisened. If so then:
'If poisened
t = t * (4/5)²
'or
t = t * 16 / 25 'both are equal
'If hard mode
t = t * (4/5)
'or
t = t * 0.8 'both are equal
When you have the temporary value you can finally calculate damage:
