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Brilliant run, well done! Super Mario Bros. without warps or running is one of my favourite accomplishments in TASing, it's amazing to prove that it's possible and the new 4-3 route is very nice.
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was0x wrote:
Another way to wall zipping
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nN8FEJysbgs#t=623
If you select 31th(32? I don't remember exact number) and select pokemon during battle then run, field bgm will be changed to bicycle theme even if you don't ride bicycle.
Jumping over ledge triggers wall zipping.
That's interesting, and quite useful for Japanese version runs. Do you think it could be combined with the Dokokashira Door glitch to improve the current Pokemon Green TAS? That's another run using the Select glitch, so anything else that uses the glitch to increase movement speed would be fair game.
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I'm trying to plan a route for the any% TAS now that we know about the Mount Moon glitch. There are only 2 necessary battles, against the Rival and against a level 9 Weedle, and we don't even need to win the first one. If we still need to get Charmander's lower special EV byte to 0x36, the fastest way to do that is through those two battles. Squirtle grants 50 special EV and Weedle grants 20, so to get it to a hexademical value of 36 (DEC 54), we want to split the Weedle's experience 5 ways. That means catching 4 Pokemon before that fight, and they should all be the same species to save time on Pokedex entries. Since Pidgey has the shortest cry in the game, it would be fastest to catch 4 Pidgey on Route 2, although this means taking 2 extra steps in the grass because of the encounter rule. A level 5 Pidgey should be able to defeat the level 9 Weedle more easily than Charmander, because it gets a same-type attack bonus with Gust.
So if the assembly code works the same way in this run, the route would involve buying 5 Poke Balls in Viridian City, catching 4 Pidgey on Route 2, sending out Charmander against Weedle and then switching between Pidgeys until using a level 5 Pidgey to defeat that Weedle. Then the run would go to the spot that allows the cinematic walk-through-walls, proceed to Cerulean Cave, and catch Ditto.
The problem with this route is getting an Ether or Elixir. It's impossible to pick up items while executing the cinematic walk-through-walls glitch, so it may be necessary to execute the glitch twice in order to get an Ether from Mount Moon or somewhere else.
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andypanther wrote:
Could japanese Yellow be faster?
Quite possibly, but much less entertaining. Most of our audience is English-speaking, and wouldn't know the difference between broken Japanese text vomited onscreen and grammatically correct Japanese.
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That's brilliant, great work MrWint.
As for other glitches in the Japanese versions, the first thing that comes to mind is the glitch with Select. Since the Select button's functionality is patched in the English version of the games, I can't think of a way to exploit that particular trick, so I'll work on figuring out the fastest route to ACE with this walk-through-walls glitch.
edit: I think the fastest way to get a Pokémon with Transform is by entering Cerulean Cave. Ditto has a 1% chance of appearing on 1F of the cave, and all the other encounters there have at least two moves. If you could set up the right prerequisites for ACE, then the run would only need the Brock skip WTW once.
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I'd say the voters are biased, but probably not so biased that it prevents worthwhile movies from getting published. One of the biggest biases is probably the fact that movies by well-known TASers seem to get more views and more votes after being submitted. We could try hiding the names of authors for a day or two after a movie is submitted, but this would cause serious logistical issues, wouldn't work for prominent projects, and I'm not convinced that this problem is in serious need of solving.
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MrWint wrote:
Nice graph :)
I didn't do the math before, but since catching or evolving costs around 17 seconds each and stuff like wrong warps cost around 12 seconds, there's definitely a theoretical minimum in terms of total time to catch all 151, especially since all of that is not including travel time, and not considering the extra amount of time spent for setting up glitches for otherwise unobtainable Pokémon.
I assume the most time can be saved by managing to break the game faster than in 43min, the actual catching simply can't be sped up indefinitely.
I suspect that if there's a way to improve this run, it will come from either finding a way to use the special case trainer-fly to get useful arbitrary code execution in Viridian Forest, or finding a way to use the Brock skip walk-through-walls glitch in the English version of the game.
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Mothrayas wrote:
Since I figured some people would find it interesting (including myself), here's a table with every Pokémon (in Pokédex order) and when it's caught/evolved/obtained in this run, and how. Timestamps are based off of the temp YouTube encode.
Very nice. Now here's the same data, in graph form:
As you can see, there's not much catching for the first 43 minutes, but after wrong warping into Victory Road, MrWint proceeds to acquire Pokémon at a rate of 2 per minute for the remainder of the run.
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Has anyone seen the trick used in this Youtube video? The first use is at 8:12 and it shows up repeatedly, it's a variant of the Brock glitch that gives the player the ability to walk through walls. I haven't managed to replicate it yet, I tweeted at the uploaded asking how it works. It's a very impressive run, and using that glitch to encounter Ditto sooner could shave more minutes off the possible improvement to the current TAS. It could even be used to enter Cerulean Cave and directly catch a wild Ditto, although I'm not certain that's faster than catching level 7 Mew and raising it a few levels.
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Once you free your mind about a concept of badges and Pokemon needing to be correct, you can do whatever you want. Strong yes vote.
I don't see how to get a minute of improvements from this run, MrWint mentioned a few seconds but that's about it. However, the Pidgey/Jynx encounter at 1:50:43 (in the temp encode) does look a bit slower than it could be, is there a reason it wasn't possible to get an earlier encounter and/or a Rattata there?
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MrWint wrote:
jlun2 wrote:
On another note, how does trainer-fly manage to get that glitched? :o
The ID of the text box displayed before the Trainer-Fly fight is stored and can be manipulated by various actions like talking to NPCs. If you set it to an ID which doesn't exist in the Trainer-Fly map, you can get the text pointer into ram. Texts have the awesome feature of inline assembler (byte 0x8) which lets the game execute everything after it. Hard to set up, but probably the fastest ACE in the game (without save corruption).
Do we know any more about setting that up, by the way? I know I made a run that causes a crash in Viridian Forest when it starts reading some invalid text, but I don't know where the pointer ends up in that RAM or whether it can be manipulated.
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Samsara wrote:
Dyshonest wrote:
It is no different than allowing save corruption to give overpowered Pokemon/corrupt things and get no battles ever/etc
Not getting battles has nothing to do with any form of corruption, save or memory or otherwise. That's just simple luck manipulation.
I think he's referring to the latest Pokemon Silver run, which uses ACE to warp to the final boss and skip the battle.
The 96 exit SMW run uses glitches that you would consider memory corruption, namely null sprites and stunned sprites. These were used to lead to ACE before the chuck-eat method was found, and they quite obviously aren't used to the same effect in the 96 exit run. Since you're arguing that all memory corruption is ACE and there shouldn't be room for more than one memory corruption category, does that mean the current 96 exit run shouldn't exist alongside the ACE run?
This raises a question similar to the problem with first-gen Pokemon TASes. I considered doing an improvement to the no warp glitch run of Pokemon Blue, which would be a "no arbitrary code execution" run. The problem is that given what we understand of the game's code, we know now that the glitches used in that route involve getting the game to load certain RAM values which can be manipulated semi-arbitrarily to get unusual random encounters. Rather than arbitrary code execution, it's arbitrary data loading. The Pokemon ACE glitch doesn't involve memory corruption, but memory manipulation, and this seems like a bit of a grey area for a "no arbitrary code execution" route.
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Android: Jack and Jill. It's an interesting puzzle/platformer where the protagonist can only change direction by hitting a wall, so there's an intended route through each level and a lot of ways to sequence break. There's a powerup that makes you move faster, normally only long enough to get through a segment that requires the powerup, but making a sequence break in one of those segments lets you keep the powerup and speed through more of the level.
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thatguy wrote:
Biggest improvement on the site? (Although I imagine that this would technically be a new category rather than an improvement.) Contrast the current Super Mario Bros movie, which features a improvement of 0.0000243 masterjuns.
I looked at the current list of notable improvements, and the biggest improvement there is 0.982 masterjuns for the Kirby's Adventure movie.
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I agree that total control seems like a new type of running compared to regular glitches. Take Pokémon Red and Blue. Most of the iconic glitches involve somehow manipulating RAM; the Missingno. glitch pulls data from the player's chosen name and uses it to load data with index numbers matching characters in that name. The Mew Glitch pulls data from the last Pokémon the player battled and uses it to load an encounter with a level matching that Pokémon's Attack modifier and an index number matching its Special stat. Although these RAM glitches are useful for loading unusual data, they don't involve executing the unusual data as code. I agree with Warp that total control TASes should be a separate category from other glitched runs, and I don't think we should allow total control TASes to be the "100%" category.
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What an astonishing improvement! This run is 2.0375 masterjuns faster than the previous run. Yes vote.
(A masterjun is an order of magnitude of improvement. Masterjuns = log10 [previous/new])
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Thomaz wrote:
Hey guys,
After spending god knows how much time to try and figure out a good way to finish Pokémon fast. I've tried different stuff like JACRED and I was also able to use the Super Glitch to trigger the glitched menu, but then MrWint's Item Underflow TAS was published and I had to change my plans lol. I had already started a segmented run but luckily I was still stuck on catching an Ivysaur in Viridian Forest so I only had to change my strat a little to include Nidoking and go from there.
A few days ago, I finally finished the run and I'm in the progress of writing up the comments so that I can send it to SDA. The run has some mistakes here and there, a few because of stuff found later (after I had already done said segment) and some because honestly, I was a bit lazy and it was only a second lost (I'm guessing I lost at max like 5-6 seconds total). I finished in 0:39:xx.
But while all that is going on, I've frequently wondered wether the newest published run is possible for a segmented, non-TAS run. Or even a run like you guys are mentioning right now.
I have a Mega Memory Card so redoing segments wouldn't be too difficult. Aside from the rediculous luck required, would it actually be possible if you saved inbetween?
My (edited) run btw, which is basically a tweaked TAS route lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OL1sOvFgN0
I don't think the current route is possible for a TAS, since it depends on your trainer ID and you'd need thousands of resets to get the correct ID.
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jspecakord wrote:
I noticed a possible improvement. After entering the River City H.S., you attack two Plagues, one with a stick and the other unarmed. You kill the unarmed one with 2 hits, but use 3 to kill the one with the stick. Is it possible to kill both with only 2 hits?
Nope, the stick means he takes an extra hit. I spent a while working on that segment but unfortunately the best luck-manipulation still took too long to save any time.
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mklip2001 wrote:
Chamale: I was asking whether Ryan's solo message is different from Alex's solo message.
Ryan's solo message is different. When using Alex solo, the message is the same as the message in the two-player run. I should have been more clear about that in the submission text.
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Thanks for the encode, Spikestuff.
mklip2001 wrote:
This is probably the first time I've actually seen a 1-player run ever since Sleepz's TAS... I never played the game 1P myself. I forgot Roxy's message was so different. Is her message very different using Ryan versus using Alex? (I thought Cyndi was Alex's girlfriend, for instance.) For that matter, why use Ryan instead of Alex?
Roxy's message when using Alex is the same as the message in the two-player run, so it's about 7 seconds slower. Even without this factor, Ryan is a couple seconds faster than Alex because he tends to start each area closer to the door to the next area.
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Great run, voting yes. When I saw that time I thought it was 1 hour, 2 minutes, because I had no idea the overflow glitch would be possible in this game.
As you can see, there's not much catching for the first 43 minutes, but after wrong warping into Victory Road, MrWint proceeds to acquire Pokémon at a rate of 2 per minute for the remainder of the run.