"Round 42" I am leaning more towards tas possible until shown otherwise.
Penn & Teller's Smoke and Mirrors with that Impossible Level is impossible to get a proper ending, but it feels more like a gag ending. There is a whole forced frozen cutscene where the game essentially ends since it is impossible to continue by design. Not sure about this one.
Patashu wrote:
Any game that is multi-threaded (or distributed across multiple processes, or worse, across multiple computers) would require deterministic-ifying much more of reality than TAS tool creators may ever be willing to do.
But we can get worse: Imagine a speedrun that, to emulate, would require emulating the external effects of reality on a processor's hardware. Now stop imagining because this is reality:
Link to video
This will probably remain out of reach of TASing indefinitely because how TF would you emulate that, add a temperature variable to the input file??
Despite being multi threaded or distributed it would be possible if the entire system is emulated. Not possible now for complex system afaik though, but not quite "impossible". A small example of a "distributed" system would be those pokemon tases that use more than one console and communicate together.
If there was a game that required the hot plate technique to run correctly that would be pretty crazy. To replicate those hot plate speedruns might be very difficult, but probably measurable and reproducible somewhat? Considering the runners are using that over and over again to get a consistent result.
YoshiRulz wrote:
MMOs. Even if you could emulate the network, for a growing number of them, the server software is lost media.
This one I agree with the most. If the server side media is lost then it is truly impossible to beat those games. Probably huge numbers of MMOs and mobile games are already lost causes due to this. Hopefully those lost game media turn up in the future and are preserved.
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Curious about what kind of limits exist for TASing games.
The only real limitations I can really think of is that the entire system would need to be:
1) Deterministic.
2) Be able to be Emulated.
What kind of systems or games have proven or are expected to be impossible to TAS for whatever reason?
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Randomno wrote:
I'm a bit more active again and would really like to update the libTAS guide. I wanted to have something finished for 1.4.5's release but didn't.
I've linked a few people to my video above and it seems well-received, but simplifying everything into a shell script might be overkill and not prepare the user for using WSL/Linux. However, teaching everything about how to use Linux is out of the scope of a libTAS tutorial.
So it might help to have some feedback:
What should the libTAS guide teach?
Compared to the existing guide, I think vcxsrv is completely unnecessary now. WSLg works fine and requires no extra work. Windows Explorer may be easier to use than Nautilus.
The guide should ideally come in text and video form, though I'm unwilling to make a commentated version at the moment. The annotated version above is not bad though I think.
Having the WSL\Linux and LibTAS setup be as automated as possible would help a lot. It is not the point of a setup process to teach a user a system. Making the user jump through hoops at that point will have them run into more issues than otherwise and might make them give up. Then have separate Linux/WSL, and libTAS usage tutorials.
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Alyosha wrote:
Link to video
I finally managed to console verify this!
It turns out the data rate was only too high for a short time when the code is first being loaded. So I increased the latches per command from 28 to 32 (with some minor fiddling to prevent buffer overruns) in that area, then returned it to default 28 for the rest of playback.
With this tinkering and using my hacked SMB ROM that sets RAM for me, it worked out first try.
Really amazing that this worked out, you have really mastered the NES OnehundredthCoin!
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DrD2k9 wrote:
moozooh wrote:
I think there is somewhat of a contradiction over the fact that we'd only accept the most optimal default character for Standard while giving a "free pass" there to an unlocked one regardless of how fast it is in comparison. I mean, what if it's the slowest character? Or at least slower than the second-best default one?
I’ll use a reply to this question to submit my perspective here:
I don’t like any save-anchored run obsoleting a run based on a clean start.
I don’t see a point in having a save anchored run be slower than the clean run unless it introduces a significant amount of new/different content. I personally don’t see a different move set (from an unlocked fighter) as qualifying as significantly new/different content in terms of gameplay. So for fighting games, my perspective is as follows:
A clean start run can only be accepted to standard using the optimal base character.
A save anchored run using an unlocked character can only be accepted to standard if that unlocked character is faster than using the fastest base character. This would not obsolete but be published along side the clean start run.
If multiple unlockable characters are more optimal than any of the base roster, then only the most optimal unblocked character is eligible for standard publication as a save anchored movie. Unlockable characters can obsolete each other’s save anchored publications, but cannot obsolete the clean start run.
If no unlockable characters are faster than the fastest base character and no new content is introduced, then there’s no reason to have a save anchored branch in Standard publication for that fighting game.
The branch name needs to indicate that the run is save anchored without using the fighter’s name in order to prevent potential confusion that the site would accept all character runs.
I think my perspective rectifies the contradiction moozooh mentions about a “free pass” to unlocked characters.
As far as a name for save anchored branches:
“savegame” is good.
A similar option that may be even slightly more descriptive that the run is starting from a saved point is “save start” or “savestart” if we want to eliminate the space.
There’s also the option of using an icon to indicate that the run starts from a save anchored point. In staff chat, the classic disk icon that is used as a save icon in much software was suggested.
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Good improvements. The "background" having different colors on some of them like between the legs is a little jarring, but besides that I think these are easy to look at.
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So you are making deliberate choices for entertainment while doing things as fast as possible for the achievement of "Perfect Day" and you mention how the game does not truly have an ending. Also from your notes so the class should probably be Alternative or maybe Playground. I thought the silly haircuts were amusing, but I did like the flag haircut best.
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I know you are saying you made this with the intention of it being rejected, but why do you think it should be rejected? Maximum score tases are accepted pretty frequently. I take it that 8:35 break in the spheres is actually the mistake in the game you were mentioning? Also the tunes in the game are decent for a rhythm game so it is actually not bad to listen to.
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Not sure how relevant this post is, but meh. I actually do think there is something to the whole SRAM being a turn off and deciding not to make a TAS using it. Thinking about a couple things to make the process better.
1. Lack of Documentation. Actually finding articles about SRAM and how to use it is difficult on TASVideos currently. I did find https://tasvideos.org/Glossary#SaveRam, but not SRAM. Also no article titles that that pops out for someone even looking for SRAM. Maybe some tutorials could help with visibility about acceptable usage. Are there even SRAM tutorials on TASVideos since having trouble finding them. Not even sure if there are ways to move SRAM between emulators which might improve things since tasers want to TAS games, not play through a long game to make a SRAM file and will probably want to use an existing SRAM from a different emulator. Probably need a full page about suing various emulator's SRAM and Dolphin in particular seems like it needs a lot of clarity up front.
2. SRAM Rules are hard to understand. Most people do not want to spend a long time having to dig and find articles and spend time trying to understand TASVideos' specific cases regarding them. I am all for making things more uniform. The current https://tasvideos.org/MovieRules page also seems to have rules and info on SRAM in various sections as well instead of a grouped in one section which hurts understanding. Maybe even some kind of grid that shows acceptability for various goals could work. Like various Standard, Playground, Alternate goals on the Y axis, and then showing standard non saveRAM, save state, SaveRAM Fighting Game, SaveRAM Racing, (other?) for the y axis, and then in the box having a green "YES" for acceptable and a Red "NO" for not, and maybe OBS for Obsoletable()?. Something like that
3. SRAM Desyncs. See this happen a lot especially with certain emulators like Dolphin. So even if it works on one machine it may not work on another for some reason or another. Which means it may not even be judge-able to become accepted. So it becomes a more risky proposition to even attempt since in addition to stressing whether a submission will be accepted, the verification movie and SaveRAM/SRAM have to work correctly as well. Maybe some verbiage about encouraging to share the SRAM and asking others to see if they can run the file at several points during the TAS creation process could catch desyncs.
For one I do not think the term "SRAM" or even "SaveRAM" really means a lot to most people. So a more obvious term through the site could be better.
In summary. More tutorials, and more easily viewable rules in Articles section, and more uniformity for rules would help since all those exceptions are obnoxious, verbiage asking others for desync checks throughout process.
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EZGames69 wrote:
CoolHandMike wrote:
There are a couple videos that show all levels, but some of them use different versions than the submitted TAS. Noticed that a different game version had a different Quota for the Patrol "Timing" stage. But the max points end up being the same. Not noticing any stages where there seems to be less targets so speed should be the same.
I did run this on the harder difficulty so the quota might be higher due to that.
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Very cool lightgun arcade tas! Liked how nothing stood a chance at all and the later levels have some furiously fast and accurate shots. Great example of tas shooting for this type of game. Recommend screenshot at 1:33 where EZGames69 shoots out the acronym "TAS" on some pillars lol.
There are a couple videos that show all levels, but some of them use different versions than the submitted TAS. Noticed that a different game version had a different Quota for the Patrol "Timing" stage. But the max points end up being the same. Not noticing any stages where there seems to be less targets so speed should be the same.
1.3 (submitted version Police Trainer (Rev 1.3B, Rev 0.3 PCB))
quota/max points 1600, 1800
https://youtu.be/tXicGNgdBQ4?si=wIHmvQdLTvw9RE1z&t=121
versus
Youtube game version ?
quota/max points 1500, 1800
https://youtu.be/uhnAhiXOJps?si=zmIWRwu4GYFOG7C6&t=51
Game Version Info
http://adb.arcadeitalia.net/dettaglio_mame.php?game_name=policetr&search_id=
Police Trainer (Rev 1.3B, Rev 0.3 PCB)
Note that the other Police Trainer 1.3 versions are clones so they should be nearly identical.
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That was fun to watch and fast as well! Did not see any errors casually watching this although I kind of wonder how large his sprite is and how close you could get near blocks while falling like 3:15 on that left side, but that would be very minor even if it was a little bit faster.
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rvdog815 wrote:
100% TAS by TheTasMaster:
gameplay only:
Link to video
reveal stream VOD with commentary from TheTasMaster, Gymnast86, Bewildebeest, and WaterproofTeabag_:
Link to video
Wow! This looks great from the clips I watched recently. The full thing will take me awhile to fully go through! Is this tas able to be submitted to tasvideos too?
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DyllonStej wrote:
CoolHandMike wrote:
Incredible tas! Really enjoyed this update. Peach, MetaKnight, Yoshi, and Captain Falcon really were interesting to watch.
55:00 Is there a faster way to bounce forward first instead of having to bounce backwards? Like immediately moving left and bouncing of the wall with the bomb then? Or maybe bouncing right up and getting hit to move down?
There's no ceiling available at the start of the room, and the Bob-Omb deals far too much knockback for the camera to keep up, even with the Bounce Boost technique that doesn't freeze the camera. The Mite's knockback is low enough to do a proper boost, but I need to bounce on that right wall first and move backwards a bit before being able to move through the stage (As Bounce Boosting requires you to move into a wall or a ceiling for it to work). For what it's worth, the old TAS didn't do a damage boost here at all.
Ok so that area just does not work well for bombs. Nice that it is faster than before.
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Incredible tas! Really enjoyed this update. Peach, MetaKnight, Yoshi, and Captain Falcon really were interesting to watch.
55:00 Is there a faster way to bounce forward first instead of having to bounce backwards? Like immediately moving left and bouncing of the wall with the bomb then? Or maybe bouncing right up and getting hit to move down?
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I liked the 1.0 version more to be honest since thar wraparound glitch was interesting to watch with that lua script. But this 1.1 is good too. Why did you decide to go with the 1.1 version which looks slower?
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Video with Alan Striker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTidQoebO_I
So I was going through my test Cyber Sled tas test with Alan Striker and noticing some errors. Although I do not think it would be enough to overcome the 112 frames necessary to beat Rex it might be possible.
Also some machine gun shots that did not go off against one of the opponents.
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638463035805294896
