# Posts for Denial140

###### Denial140
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (260)
89/37 is not bad given the size of the denominator, around only 0.00016 off, but I suspect this isn't as close as you were looking for. Of course, this came from continued fractions until hitting the relatively large denominator of 7; 89/37 = [2;2,2,7] You may prefer the much closer 197sqrt(2) - 101 - 35pi - 24e with an error of 5.45*10^-9 and which was found by a brute-force computer search.
###### Denial140
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Damn, the Street Fighter WIP was supposed to throw them off...
###### Denial140
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Challenger, eien86 and I would like to present to you... a WIP with more than the first two levels, for the first time (on the US version) in 18 years. Input can be found here; an encode is below. Link to video
###### Denial140
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Note that the lines that get drawn are from (0, 1-t) to (t, 0) for t rational, with equation y = (1-1/t) x + (1-t). For given x, this is maximised when (some calculus) t = sqrt(x), with y = x + 1 - 2sqrt(x). As a side note, we may rearrange to (y-x-1)^2 = 4x, which we recognise as the standard equation of a parabola. When I was first shown this weaving pattern by a teacher when I was young, they claimed that it was a circle :) For the area, note that it is 4 times the area between y = 1/2, x = 1/2 and the curve. Solving the quadratic equation shows that this occurs when sqrt(x) = (2-sqrt(2))/2 i.e. x = (3-2sqrt(2))/2. So our area is 4 times the integral from (3-2sqrt(2))/2 to 1/2 of 2sqrt(x) - x - 1/2, which is (8sqrt(2)-10)/3. EDIT: It is maybe worth noting that the above solution is very handwavy about exactly which lines are drawn and for which n. For those who have a thing for rigour, this can be patched up with a continuity argument using density of the rationals, along with the fact that the "mesh size" is arbitrarily small as n is taken arbitrarily large.
###### Denial140
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I will be joining forces with Moozooh, Invariel and FatRatKnight.
###### Denial140
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The current strategy walks on the ground for one frame before dying to trigger the textbox from this level without it actually appearing. It may be possible to keep this timesave and use backwards hitbox (or possibly even punching backwards hitbox, but I'm struggling to see how at the moment), I'll look into it. I was originally planning to end on world 3, but I realised that I miscalculated with the overworld movement, so it ends up faster to end on world 5 instead. Indeed it's close enough that without these walljumps in Rain Forest, ending in world 3 would still be faster :) I also realised that I didn't walljump from as high up as I could, so I have since saved around 15 frames there. I tested being closer before uploading the WIP, but wasn't able to make it faster just by doing this. However, facing right indeed made the attack shorter, and saves around a second overall. Thank you again for all your comments and kind words :)
###### Denial140
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Consider me signed up. I'm not sure I have the time or the motivation (hi teams looking for an extra player, great advertising right here) but I'm not known for thought-through decisions so here we are
###### Denial140
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Congratulations moozooh!
###### Denial140
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New WIP! Worlds 1-3 complete: Link to video Edit: Reencoded at 720p50. Apparently I failed to tick the setting last time :)
###### Denial140
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The water where the first life is in the oil wells stage is actually a mirage - the water always disappears if you jump into it. So this life was already planned :) I finished the life reroute after looking a bit more closely at world 3 due to key shenanigans, and the only lives I expect to get that lose any time are marble alley (cherries) and cresta run. Both lose 40ish frames. In fact now that I am more familiar with world 3, there are enough lives to skip these, but unfortunately the bottleneck is currently lives by the end of world 2, and reordering the worlds would lose 128 frames in movement between doors. Iirc you move at 3 pixels per frame, which should be the same as the boost as with the water boost. The water boost should depend on the body of water itself. For example, the water in Brass Monkeys doesn't give a boost, but the ones where you would usually have to float with the bottle will push you forward, since the bottle normally has no movement speed at all. The only exception to this is the water at the start of Temple of Gloom, which for some reason still pushes you forwards.
###### Denial140
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This looks exactly like the walking on water glitch from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGfRnw9oO4A (see 2:25:17) - I haven't been able to replicate it and the uploader didn't respond when I asked if they knew anything about how to trigger it. Your setup is much easier to replicate though. It looks like ducking off the edge of the elevator is enough to trigger it. I guess ducks can swim :p The slightly strange thing is this looks like a completely different cause to the longplay. A first try saves about 28 seconds (!!) as we can skip the flamethrower and all subsequent sections completely. Ducking again removes the state but otherwise it seemingly lasts forever.
###### Denial140
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The walls are segmented, but I think these blocks can't be walljumped on when approached from the right. This varies by the transformation and also possibly by the blocks? For example, the lightbulb transformation has no trouble walljumping from the right in the Darkroom, but I haven't had any success at all walljumping from the right on the ice blocks in world 2 with the normal Jelly Boy*, or any success with walljumping at all with the flamethrower. Perhaps it's not so much "the hitbox is bigger behind you" as an asymmetry between the left/right-facing hitboxes. You also reminded me that I'm not sure I tested these blocks with the skateboard, so that's something I'll look into. *Actually with hacks I found that the walljump is possible if you can get 1 pixel further into the wall, and very occasionally I have seen jelly boy move an extra frame into a wall than normal. I'm not sure what causes this or if it's possible to manipulate. My main idea with this is to walljump up to the puzzle piece in Brass Monkeys, but this would likely require a chain of a few walljumps like this. I think getting hit just puts you in freefall, so if the floor is segmented and more than 1 block thick you would just fall until you reach that floor. One thing I tested was the elevator where you pick up the flamethrower in Brass Monkeys, although getting hit required hacking the position of the falling gnome. Either way, this just put you on the floor underneath the elevator, and unfortunately not through this floor onto the platform with strawberries below. I think this also rules out clipping straight to the end of Brass Monkeys as well, although I couldn't lure an enemy to hit me through the floor there either. This was another idea I had for the strawberries platform. I briefly mentioned it in a previous post but I have a tendency to ramble unclearly sometimes :) Combined with resetting via transformation cancelling it was enough to make contact with the side of the strawberries platform, but a fair way off being able to land on it. It would be very cool if there was a way to cancel it more quickly but I haven't been able to find one yet. Falling or clipping to this platform would probably save 10 seconds or so over the clip in the video above. I feel like there was one more thing I wanted to say but it's slipped my mind :)
###### Denial140
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I found a few new things: firstly a particularly nice application of the floor clip. Link to video Annoyingly, even with all the jump-extending techniques, the battering ram seems necessary to make the jump following the breakable wall, meaning that the second item must be collected while clipped into the floor. The end transformation height increase can't be avoided in the same way (attack + jump) as most transformations, since the battering ram attack causes a small jump. Luckily, it does allow for it to be delayed, which just allows you to pass through the breakable wall. Next, when you're fully clipped into the floor, getting hit by an enemy will push you down through it. This saves about 6 seconds in Brass Monkeys: Link to video Unfortunately this means the slope sliding is cut out, and I'm not sure it will make its way into the final movie. A bit of a shame, as I was quite fond of it, but 6 seconds is 6 seconds. I also tried to clip through using the gnome before the first set of ice blocks, which would probably save another 5 seconds or so, but wasn't successful. The floor pushes you left very quickly, and most of the ceiling to the right of the gnome is too low to clip into the floor at all, so the only option is directly under the springs with the flamethrower box. It's just about possible to clip into the floor to the right of the gnome this way, but the floor pushes you into the gnome before the transformation can complete. The only solution I see would be to spawn the gnome so that it travels left despite you being on the right of it when spawning, but it seems dubious that this is possible. Finally, the game gets confused if you try to duck with a transformation that doesn't have a duck animation. In normal cases I think this doesn't do much, but for textboxes that trigger on floor touch, it gives you a 30 frame window to jump instead. This allows a textbox skip in Marble Alley, for example by combining it with the puzzle piece textbox, even while collecting 100 cherries: Link to video The false ducking + textbox state is quite weird - it allows you to continue travelling off ledges, and even jump off these "extended" floors. This feels like it could be quite useful, but there are just so few of these floor-triggered textboxes. Off the top of my head, I can only think of Marble Alley (where I don't think it's useful), Drum Solo (ball transformation is very late on, and dubious if it would be useful since the ball already allows you to roll on extended floors for a bit. For now I will combine it with the puzzle piece textbox), Barmy Army (which is currently skipped using the puzzle piece, and would lose time to carry it into Blocks Away), and Fire Pits (the only reasonable transformation is the mini jelly boy ('jelly baby' transformation) which has a duck animation). This fact that you can carry textboxes over to subsequent levels is the one potential saving grace, but it still feels very unlikely.
###### Denial140
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I had routed it, but the new discovery in Cresta Run (saved 12.8s on my first testing! Very happy this got found) will likely change the optimal route since there is no longer the life on the way back up with the balloon. The order of the worlds is quite important - there are nearly enough lives you can get without losing time for all of the deaths, but 3 or 4 extra will be needed. Previously, the order was going to be world 1, 2, 6, 5, 4, 3 but it now may end up being faster to end on world 5. More testing to be done :)
###### Denial140
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The pushing you back up turns out to be the standard height gain after un-transforming, which can be negated by pressing B as the un-transformation finishes. If you are on the floor, this will usually jump. However, a jump can be negated by pressing Y on the same frame. It turns out that the two of these combined allow you to stay at the lower y-position, so you can zip indefinitely or sometimes walk through walls. Unfortunately not as useful as it sounds since the zip direction is usually unhelpful - I found a 1.5s timesave using it in Fire Pits (first level of world 4) but I'll keep looking elsewhere.
###### Denial140
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###### Denial140
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###### Denial140
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I have been using the turnaround landing and Challenger's floaty landing from the World 3 videos, but evidently I never clocked rewatched far enough back to realise they could be used in Drum Solo too :) The most striking use I've found for them is Cloud Eight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R1OGUcdqDU Indeed the extra orange loses 5 frames from the extra 5 time, and jumping later only gains 2 frames. Either way, Marble Alley has seen quite a rework since the second WIP - I'm hoping to have one out soon covering the first two worlds. I've also LOTADed the rest of the game to get a feel for which lives to pick up, so hopefully it will be a bit faster from here on out. On the whole the game syncs just fine - the loads sometimes vary by a couple of frames, but within levels it syncs provided you were on the ground at the end of the previous level if you need the jump. Bosses are a bit of a different matter, because the bosses besides world 1 seem to be some of the few things that actually use the RNG - the only other thing I can think of are the chimneys in the bottom half of Cloud Eight, but this is not a problem as in the above video. The bosses are annoyingly also quite hard to optimise, and the world 2 boss is the one thing holding me back from WIP 3 before this new clipping into the floor trick to play around with :) But perhaps if I post my best attempt someone will spot some improvements to it.
###### Denial140
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Thanks! Nice find - I hadn't discovered this yet. This allows skipping the wallclimber for the puzzle piece in mini maze and saves around 250f. Will look into other uses, this was just the first thing that came to mind.
###### Denial140
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I found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0NP_oRTTek but it looks like they go a little over the required score in places, so it may not be particularly optimised.
###### Denial140
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Could the input file be replaced with this 4-frame improvement? Thanks.
###### Denial140
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I discovered some weird behaviour in the physics engine - during an attack while on a slope, the speed limit increases by a fixed amount (I think depending on the steepness of the slope) every frame, so you can gain (in theory) unbounded speed with this, given an unbounded length attack. For the regular punch, the attack is too short so that this loses time even on the shortest slopes unless the punch hits something, which extends the attack by a few frames. For the blowtorch, the attack is essentially unbounded in length, and this has a very nice application at the end of Brass Monkeys in world 2.
###### Denial140
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Very nice work - it's good to see that cancelling the mini transformation can be used somewhere. Before walljumping was discovered, I had found you can get pushed into a wall in mini maze where the final mini transformation is, but in that case it was useless since there was no other platform to jump off.
###### Denial140
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I just realised this and came to post about this! Moving the puzzle piece section of Mini Maze after the Darkroom allows the jump at the beginning of the Darkroom and also the exit after the puzzle piece. Of course, this also saves us from collecting a life somewhere. But I hadn't realised that it also skips the textbox in other stages - this seems to work on the ones that pop up with advice about the game too. Unfortunately pausing and unpausing takes too long to make the faster ending to Barmy Army quicker overall, but e.g. on the one in the first stage it saves 21 frames. Thank you very much for pointing this out! Edit: This and many other (mainly small) improvements here.
###### Denial140
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Thank you! Progress might be slow until the summer because I have exams coming up, but hopefully the work will pick up afterwards. The walljumps come from more of the hitbox being behind Jelly Boy's position than in front, so turning around near a wall can put some of the hitbox inside it. This varies by transformation - with no powerup this is quite strict. I think Jelly Boy's distance to the wall has to be even, and with 2 speed towards it. By contrast, the lightbulb transformation (where I originally discovered the walljumps) seems much more lenient, and in fact you can chain them entirely vertically as in the Darkroom - I guess it has a less symmetric hitbox.