Looks very nice...I love how you "toy with death" weaving around enemies...good start to one of the better arcade-to-NES conversions.
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Magic Sword...it's up there with Gradius 3 for my favorite arcade-to-SNES conversions. While there are a lot of floors if you were to start from the beginning, the levels are very short, and using the right secondary characters and taking damage on purpose could make a very quick and fun to watch video...
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With all the RPG interest growing, anyone at all interested in these two Konami VRC-enhanced RPGs? (Madara, released in 1990 a year after Castlevania 3, uses the same VRC6 as the Japanese version of that game, and Lagrange Point, a 1991 release, uses a "VRC7" chip which essentially sounds like AdLib.)
I would love to get into them, but I'd rather start out with English translations so I could figure out how to get anywhere in them before I speed-ran the original version! And I don't know of any real translations of either of them!
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9:17:41?! Wow...that's more than twice as long as the records for Tales of Phantasia, FF4, and Chrono Trigger (once that movie's done--a guess.) could be a very tough video to make/watch. But an interesting game.
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Agreed. And then some. All the MegaDrive version's graphics are "enhanced" and shiny. . .except for the Toads themselves, for some reason. Heh. But overall, the graphic styling is far more ugly than the Nintendo version. Which is funny, because the MegaDrive version of Snake, Rattle and Roll is nicer overall than the Nintendo version. The music isn't the same at all, but even the new music seems to fit. But I'm getting way off-topic again. Sorry.
Well, I've never played the Genesis versions but Snake, Rattle & Roll doesn't stretch the NES to the limit the way Battletoads does, so it follows that the Genesis would be able to improve it more. BT uses every gimmick the NES could possibly handle, including fake parallax scrolling, lots of on-the-fly tile swapping, etc.
And I agree that some higher-end NES games look better than some Genesis games--BT especially, but also the later MegaMan games and a few others.
I haven't watched the latest 15-odd minute submission, but just looking at the time I have to say WOW.
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The best SNES RPGs I've played were Tales of Phantasia, Star Ocean and Chrono Trigger. CT has already plenty of fans and runs in the process. Tales and SO have random "encounters" and are quite long and very complicated (they're both with real-time battle systems, not turn based, so it becomes tricky). I think SO required some weird graphics packages installed, and it might be a bit of a bother.
ToP has been done here in ~4.5 hours (not a final submission, since it was done with an English translation hack.) Very, very impressive and probably drops to low 4s in an official submission since Japanese text usually prints faster and there's still optimization to be done.
The "weird graphics packages" refer to the uncompressed graphics that Star Ocean and the other SDD1 chip game, Street Fighter 3 Alpha, used to get around emulating the chip. SDD1 allows for very high-level graphics compression that the main SNES chip would be too slow to do normally. SNES9x supports SDD1 emulation in all the movie-recording versions, so said packages aren't necessary anymore.
Along w/CT both were indeed amazing games. They play very similarly because they were both made by Tri-Ace. It's hard to believe that ToP came out in '94 only a little after FF6 and before CT, as it's much bigger megabit-wise than either and has much more technology (loads of voice-dubbing, including a full J-Pop intro song, etc.) and Star Ocean builds on many things in the same game engine.
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Some of his dialogue with Rosa especially on the airship towards the end (and Edge's with Rydia too at various points in the game) if I recall.
The biggest advantage to doing either an easytype or hardtype FF4 run, as with most RPGs, actually lies in the text layout and how it affects the game speed. Remember,
-Japanese characters tend to be single-size rather than variable width fonts (although FF2E doesn't use VWFs anyway) so are generally easier to manage
-More text is almost always needed for English than Japanese writing, which obviously means more on-screen printing time. Also, if you're trying to use the same ROM size this generally means you have to use a higher level, and slower, compression algorithm. (Although sometimes different size ROMs are used--see Dragon Warrior vs. Dragon Quest.)
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only trouble with FF4 : because of site rules, it would have to be played on the japanese version of the game, so the player would need to understand japanese at least a little bit , otherwise it would take a long time of guessing what would be what
This game is translated to english if I recall correct. That's why it's FF2 and not FF4 in USA.
Edit: Orelse im confused by the thread and you are talking about the real FF2?
If this is "the real FF2" this is the wrong forum. FF2 (SNES) is in fact a direct translation of the FF4 easytype, of course watering down the dialogue so that Edward/Gilbert is a "spoony bard" and so that Cecil appears much less chauvinistic, among other things.
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3:58?! All I can say is wow, congrats man...
anyway, here's the original thread, started by me... http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1158
I've actually maintained that the hardtype is easier to play, especially to speedrun, since there are more "specialized" items. For instance, if you really wanted the adamant armor (not really worth it in a speedrun,) the Alarm item automatically calls the least likely group of enemies for a given room, so you could easily get the 5 pink puff battle in that one room...
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Yep, Robowarrior (US)/Bomberking (Japan) is a lot like Bomberman...it's also a Hudson title (but was distributed by Jaleco if I recall.) It's a decent game...
Does it have the "wraparound bomb" feature that some of the Bomberman games have?
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Does the video aims for a level 6/7 or 2/3? Because it looks more like a fast video than a LLG one...
every run on this site / forum are meant to be played as fast as possible
Yes, and samurai goroh, remember that LLGs are almost always a good ways off from the fastest possible run because even though leveling up takes time, you have to use other time-spending compromises if you don't gain levels.
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Now that Tri-Ace's other SNES heavyweight is being so successfully tackled, with Tales of Phantasia being around 4 1/2 hours in the initial run, anyone want to try this one?
I know that it's very nonlinear and there have got to be some very good strategic fighting habits/plot sequences/etc.
Of course the Japanese version would be needed, but another rules question for Bisqwit to lay out: Since the recording-capable SNES9X versions have full SDD1 support, I'm assuming whoever's doing a run shouldn't use the external graphics pack?
Good luck, everyone.
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I've played through the game twice, once normally and once using only one character in every battle.
I would say focus on using the Dragoon class. Its only weakness is HP progression, and you can make up for the lack of HP building by dodging almost every attack, and getting superb attack power, by jumping.
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What about leveling up? I'm guessing pretty much none will be required if you can take advantage of glitches, randomization, and equipment. The battles that you HAVE to fight will probably give enough experience, especially bosses. Though, I forget. Does this game's bosses give a lot of experience?
Then there's the fact of maybe leveling up in a VERY few amount of spots, just fighting like one extremely powerful enemy to gain a dozen levels (exaggerated) or whatever a couple times in order to make attack methods more effective and damaging, or to be able to have enough hit points to survive some attack. That is unless there's a way to kill just about every enemy along your path pretty fast with the most optimized equipment. It's probably way more complex than I think. Like I can't imagine what's going to be done about that boss on the cart ride with multiple limbs that can't be vanish and doomed. Unless does Setzer's move work on bosses even?
Most bosses give 0 experience, but mandatory XP is obtained in a few places like against the MagRoaders in the mine cart ride. It's actually possible to avoid every battle in places like when you go to the summit of Narshe to fight Kefka. See this faq: http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/final_fantasy_iii_low_level_a.txt
In case it isn't obvious, you could use the path in the guide to fine-tune your path a bit, but don't use it to try to time-attack straight up, LOL. While you save a lot of time avoiding battles, you lose a lot of time building your other strengths like spells to make up for it, such as by fighting Cactrots for magic points. It's the same idea as why my FF4 single-character runs take several hours more than my average normal playthrough: you have to do a lot of extra stuff to make up for things you sacrifice.
As for level-raising, hit the Hoover desert and Brachiosaur forest hard if you have to, of course using the exp-egg...
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Yeah, I know...not sure if it's an extraordiary enough glitch to warrant separate versions (in the FF6 thread the sketch glitch is, so a non-glitched run is strongly considered and even preferred by some.)
My gripe about the Sketch Glitch is that it seemed (to me) to be rather hard to control, and that it usually involved _saving and resetting_ the game to make it stable.
If there exists a set of conditions where the sketch glitch does not require the game to be reset to stabilize it, then use of the sketch glitch would be fine, IMO.
One part of that concern is related to how movies record: can a move be recorded to include a system reset?
There's a soft-reset move mentioned a few pages back in this thread for FF6. Soft-resets are generally judged acceptable, especially if the manual lists them (see the Legend of Zelda videos that use it to save backtracking time.)
The sketch glitch only happened to me once, on an actual SNES, and killed my saved games...I'd recommend reading the glitch links above if you want more info on how to manage it.
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In the vein of game suggestions like Final Fantasies 4 and 6 comes this, for the most expansive RPG on the NES. This would be a fun game to watch, although probably very difficult to plan and execute, what with the five seperate chapters and all.
Here is a collection of FAQ's on the game--I recommend looking at the Weapon/Armor Recommendations.
The only thing is while I haven't played it much, that game is most likely long beyond the point of really speedrunning. Being the only 8-megabit NES cart, it's as many megabits as FF4, which given it has lower-quality graphics and sounds means it likely has much more map data, and may be longer than FF6.
On the other hand, FF3j might be a cool game to speedrun and possibly FF1&2j.
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Phil, why? Being able to restock all the best items takes all the challenge out of the game, kind of like getting 256 Illuminas off the Relm Sketch Glitch in FF6. I didn't use the duplication glitch in my FF4 solo games, BTW.
Sketch Glitch is being exploited in a run of 6 as well.
We aren't making these videos to be challenged. We're making these videos to show the limits of the game, as it was programmed. Exploiting glitches is one way to show that the limits perceived are not always the limits coded.
Yeah, I know...not sure if it's an extraordiary enough glitch to warrant separate versions (in the FF6 thread the sketch glitch is, so a non-glitched run is strongly considered and even preferred by some.)
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I've beaten a Solo Cecil game and almost finished Solo Rydia and Solo Edge games.
How the hell? Game Genie codes, I'm guessing.
Nope, played legitimately.
I used all available characters during the parts where my solo character was unavailable. Even in the Cecil one you have to do this once when Spoony Gilbert fights a sahagin.
Solo Cecil or Edge are fairly hard...you need to be around level 80 to be fast and strong enough to beat the Sealed Cave enemies. Fortunately, it doesn't take nearly as long to level up, since the experience is concentrated 5x as much. Again, the Hardtype version is easier than easytype here because you can Berserk in potion form to massively increase your attack power, and use Light Capes to reflect "Dimension69."
Solo Rydia is actually VERY easy!! You have to bring her along very slowly to get through her first scene where she starts w/30 HP, but later in the game, once you get the Nuke spell, which always has extremely high attack power and is cast VERY fast, everything is easy if you're careful about conserving MPs. (I always used Tents at savespots as my primary means of restoring MP...I don't use Cabins because you have to kill off your non-solo characters again.) Even if you don't skip the sealed cave, it's a joke because Nuke casts faster than the doors and wall can keep up with.
GameFaqs has a solo guide focusing on Cecil, and says that all the other final 4 characters are doable except possibly Rosa. I've started on a solo Rosa game...
Phil, why? Being able to restock all the best items takes all the challenge out of the game, kind of like getting 256 Illuminas off the Relm Sketch Glitch in FF6. I didn't use the duplication glitch in my FF4 solo games, BTW.
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Just read the ff3bug.txt file. Damn there's alot of bugs. Most of them worthless though. And I don't even know why people sit and track all these down. Since it really can't been just stumbled uppon doing those crazy stuff that guide mentions. :D
How ever I really do like the "Cyan goes berserk" bug. Think that should be exploited in the run. Atleast at the last fight. Could speed up the game alot since Cyan won't stop hitting. How ever I don't really know how long it takes to grab him though.
The only things I hate about the the Cyan glitch are that (1) if he's imped then his attack power is terrible, thereby making the run slow and (2) the enemies can still do their final blows.
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My favorites are
Akumajou Densetsu (the non-VRC6 version, USA Castlevania 3 is also very good)
Castlevania 4
Dracula X/Rondo of Blood
Doom 1&2 (Bobby Prince rocks!)
Duke Nukem II (even better Prince work than the Doom games)
Final Fantasy 3j
Final Fantasy 4
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 7
Lagrange Point (uses another Konami-made music chip, VRC7, to make the NES sound essentially 16-bit)
Quake (got to love Nine Inch Nails)
Xenogears (even though I've never played it...love the Shevat song)
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OCRemix.org (where my username is the same as here) is where it's at for this kind of stuff...
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I attempted a legitimate speed run of FF4 some time ago - got to the Tower of Zot in 1:30 before quitting due to lack of time.
The walkthrough on GameFAQs was a bit vague, and there's lots of ways to improve his 8 hour run, most notably cutting down on the amount that you need to level up. I've found that there's really only four locations that are absolutely necessary to level up in:
- Cave north of Kaipo, right after you get Rydia. Beat up on the monsters weak to Lit (use Tellah to wipe them out in one shot) until you get high enough level to get Lit-1. This should give Rydia more durability in the fights to come, as well as give her more MP to summon her Chocobo. You should be able to do this while walking normally before you get to the save point halfway through the cave.
....
I wouldn't even bother fighting a single random battle while Cecil is still a Dark Knight, since all the exp you get then is basically meaningless and Rydia isn't very helpful in her weak form (unless you're playing a single character game, which I'd consider my specialty as I've beaten a Solo Cecil game and almost finished Solo Rydia and Solo Edge games.)
Fight a couple battles just after changing Cecil into a Paladin, since you can gain so many levels with him in such a short amount of time, that it's a pretty good idea you do so.
Yeah, I always liked how he could gain 6-7 levels just by beating up on a Zombie pack in Mt. Ordeals. I'm not sure if I'd hold up on raising levels and winning even more exp after the first battle, though...the battles get pretty tough w/600 HP once you take the bypass to Baron Castle.
Harvest summoned enemies off an Alert (a monster-in-a-box in several chests) in the Tower of Bab-il in the underworld. To do this, smack the Alert with a weak attack (preferably Rydia's or Rosa's), and the Alert will summon a monster. Kill the monster, and smack the Alert again. Rinse and repeat until you're high enough level to take on most of the rest of the game. You'll get EXP off each monster you kill, and it's much better than walking around fighting random battles.
- Harvest Attackers/Defenders while fighting the CPU boss in the Giant of Babil. This is by far the quickest way to level in the entire game. Attackers just fire off Maser (which eats off 1/8 of your max HP to all party members), and Defenders only heal the CPU. You'll want to buy lots of Life1s prior to coming here, though, since if both the Attacker and Defender are killed, it'll use Globe199 twice, which instantly kills two party members, before resummoning another Attacker and Defender. You should be able to level to 60 or so in 15 minutes to a half an hour, especially since we're tool assisting the battle, which should be high enough to beat the rest of the game.
Not sure how efficient it would be in a speed run, but what I like to do when I have to level up a lot (i.e. to beat the sealed cave in my non-Rydia solo games) and don't want to walk around much is pretty similar, to go to a Summoner monster and have them repeatedly call a high-exp enemy, and keep beating that enemy up numerous times.
julianch wrote:
the bahamut sidequest is long and hardif your level is low.
but the pink tuff drops a mega strong armor (1/64 chances)
The pinkpuff is giving a pink tail which can be exchanged for an Adamante armor at the same place where you can exchange the rat tail for Excalibur sword. In other words, it's a lost of time.
Btw using the duplication glitch can be very useful with the Excalibur sword. The problem, you must do a detour to the village of monsters but maybe it's good to obtain Leviathan and Asura.
It is probably a waste of time in a speed run, since you have to completely retrace your steps out of the Lunar Subterrain and back, but this is one of the ways the hardtype version is easier than the easytype one: it has an "Alarm" rare item that calls the least common battle formation for the area you're in, which in that room would obviously be the five Pink Puffs, thereby making it easier to win the PinkTail.
I know about the duplication glitch, and it should probably be forbidden in a speedrun.
You can't get significantly powerful items early (most of them are in the Moon). You can't abuse stats and make yourself unhittable (although you can make yourself get maximum boosts whenever possible).
Actually, luck abuse and the right armor can make you come darn close...
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I remember pulling off a glitch that brought general Leo back from the dead. How ever he disappeared in the next battle. I think it was Strago that got changed to Leo. And Leo was pretty powerful at that point. This was in the cave you can enter when travelingwith Figaro. Then, after a while the game crashed. But it was pretty kewl.
Is this a known glitch that can be re-done easily?
Would very much like to see it again.
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I've played FF4 start to finish at least a dozen times since '92...I love all the characters, especially Cecil! Alas, I don't consider myself a good speed-runner because I have too much of an "explore every nook and cranny" instinct and I wouldn't want to do the massive number of re-recordings involved.
So if there is work on FF6 and SMRPG, why not FF4 speed-running? GameFaqs says a sub-8 hour run is attainable, and I imagine a LOT of time could be saved with shortcuts and luck abuse.
Some early thoughts:
*I'd definitely use the Sealed Cave glitch (warping to get the Dark Crystal in the Dwarf Castle.) Besides the obvious time saved in caves, it saves you from a LOT of leveling up.
*Number of enemies, damage, items won, etc. are all manipulable with luck abuse.
*Running and fighting just the right battles saves a lot of time, of course...
*I've played both easytype and hardtype versions, and not only do I think the so-called hardtype is actually easier in some ways, but it's also probably slightly easier to speed-run in because of some of the rare items.
*LOTS of randomness abuse can be used to get lots of stats gains from level ups. Also, there are lots of algorithms to optimize the stats characters come back with (i.e. Rosa and Kain in the towers and the giant.)
*Maximize battle and message speed at the start (duh.)
*Ignore Palom, Porom, Spoony Edward/Gilbert, etc. They're mostly worthless, so don't waste time and money healing them and equipping the best stuff on them...
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If/when these videos get released to the public, and if both versions are being worked on, don't you guys think there should be both a sketch-glitch and non-sketch glitch version? The glitch affects the game so extraordinarily that playing regularly might be more fair to some people. I am, however, all for randomness abuse in both versions.
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