Just to clarify: I'm going to be working on improving the GIM routes regardless of whether they work on N64 or not. I don't really care about what can/can't be submitted to this site, this forum is a good place to talk about TASing OoT and so I'm going to do exactly that.
To be honest, both the GIM and non-GIM route are cool and having fully optimised TASes of both will be a good contribution to the TASing and speedrunning scene.
The GIM route will simply be able to show just how far the game can be pushed if played with perfect inputs on VC (which is what the vast majority of speedrunners play on).
The Zoras Domain TAS. Where did the bottle come from??
GIM, I delay a deku nut pickup and use the value from the heart piece chest to get the blue potion when I jump in the water.
In the actual video I used the wrong graphics plugin so to avoid crashing I had to miss the chest and manually write a blue potion into my items screen, but this is fully tested and won't crash with the right graphics plugin.
Fox found a new way to get a lot of speed in a superswim using bonks as zora. This technique is actually a really fast speed (faster than superslides) and will be used in the TAS.
New MM TAS tech even in 2016 ;)
Link to video
For anyone that's interested in the progress of the any% TAS, Fox has been streaming most of his progress on twitch at http://www.twitch.tv/thewayfaringfox
I don't know if I posted this here a year ago (I kinda think I didn't) but at the time I was working on an alternate TAS route for any%.
The GIM would be in Zora's Domain and you'd then catch a fish and savewarp straight away.
Here's a video of what Zora's Domain could look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6eUYQ2zANA
If we found a fast way to get through that waterfall blocking Zora's Domain with just a sword then this would actually be quicker. I really like this route because it's more exciting which means people would actually want to TAS it.
There's also potential for an even faster GIM in the domain, there are a few options to mess around with
But yeah, I thought I should probably post here so this route idea is actually out here and not hidden.
Has anyone actually had any experience trying to play or TAS with VC OoT? Or Dolphin TASing in general...
I tried it out today, and it did hang at random points in the game but I feel like this can be avoided somehow either with different emulator settings or just keep playing back the movie until it doesn't hang...
In general, I'm not entirely sure what settings I need to use for TASing with dolphin/VC stuff. I did change "external frame buffer" to give me 60 input frames instead of the 20 that frame advance normally gives when you boot up dolphin, but other than that I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done to aid the playing or TASing of the game...
Is it possible to recover the Blast Mask without using the sword? The cycle I'm currently using to get the Gilded Sword is unfortunately a cycle I was also planning on getting the All Night Mask on. If it's impossible I'll just have to start the Razor Sword after rescuing the old lady actually run a more optimized 2nd cycle to get the Razor Sword ASAP - which personally I think sucks because it could be fun doing what I can of Great Bay and Ikana Canyon without a Sword, and I already know I can do Snowhead without the sword. Though having all six bottles by the end of the 3rd cycle would be a bonus.
No, it's not for a TAS or a Speedrun - better players than I can do it more efficiently. I'm just doing this for fun (and possibly as my next LP project after Randomized Yellow)
You can use Zora and Goron punch to defeat sakon, you can also use the Great Fairy Sword and I'm pretty sure a Deku stick works too. Eventually there will be a place with information like this... (getting worked on little by little)
Ok, for nuts:
We start with 5 nuts.
-1 used for blank A
-1 used for gohma
means we have 3 to play around with during the rest of the TAS. One nut can be used at the ganon fight to save a second (by getting broken deku stick) but cucco timesavers could maybe be quicker. So potentially at cuccos we could have 3 nuts.
Also note that we have that fast running cucco thing that was posted earlier which we can do on any cucco we throw and then pick up again (and then throw again).
-You can use 1 nut to knock the cucco next to the house of skulltula down which makes him quicker to grab later
-You can use 1 nut and then wait like 10 seconds for the cucco on the cliff next to the windmill to come down.
-You can use 2 nuts to get the cucco next to the windmill down straight away (with lots of manipulation). You do have to wait a few seconds for him to stop running around before you can pick him up though.
-You can use nuts (in general) to move groups of cuccos at the same time as done previously using the sword.
-We can also use nuts to anger cuccos
Also a couple of ideas from me (Though I am well aware that neither of these are likely to be faster):
1. Knock down the windmill cucco onto the ledge with the windmill entrance and use him to fly across to the cucco next to the grotto.
2. (More silly) We can throw a nut into the cucco pen to anger the cuccos at the same time as talking to the cucco lady. This makes the cucco angry cutscene 5 seconds long. With the angry cuccos, we can damage boost over to the area behind the fences.
These would both mean that we only have to move 2 cuccos back to the pen afterwards which in turn would mean we could use the quick-running cucco glitch on one and backwalk with the other. This would make getting back to the pen with both cuccos a lot quicker since we don't have to wait for any cuccos.
Again, these last two ideas are silly and probably slow, this post was more about discussing our cucco options and explaining how the windmill cucco works a little.
I don't know if somebody noticed but as far as I know, we're not able to wrong warp, when we skip the deku tree CS.
When I skipped the Cutscene and 2-3-1, I froze the warp value on 101 but I couldn't warp.I also tried to freeze the value a bit earlier/later, but that didn't work.
I don't know if I did something wrong or not.
I also have a video, if you want to see it
Simply going through the door with the timer at 101 won't cause the wrong warp to happen, the timer needs to be increasing while going through the door.
If the wrong warp is broken due to a bad cutscene setup then you get warped to a black screen with the castle escape sounds, so you can still tell if it would've worked with a good cutscene. As it happens, the cutscene that needs to be watched before the wrong warp works is *not* the 'talking to deku tree' cutscene that we skip, it's the dungeon entry cutscene where the camera pans around the dungeon, so the wrong warp should still be fine.
If you show us the video we could tell you for sure that it isn't bad cutscene setup that's the problem
A little while back, Skater found a clip up onto the bank on zora's river which skips climbing up. I managed to recreate it and have the movie files as I was doing it in mupen.
Link to video
However, this may not be doable for us in the TAS... I'm having trouble recreating it from the exit warp.
Both skater and I enter the water with a sidehop, making our height when we surface from the water consistent. Due to link's position in the water being different when we surface from the lost wood's exit, he likely surfaces at a different height and this may make it not possible from the lost woods exit.
My angle when I targeted the wall and clipped out the water: -23654 (short)
I'll leave my movie file stuff here in case anyone wants to try it out (It's like 26000 frames until I actually do it, sorry!). If possible, it will save over a second, possibly 2.
The Movie Files
Yes, but since the clip depends on fall speed, backwards speed, angle AND position you start from, it's quite possible that it's not doable from that one skulltula spot...
Anyway, the spot I show in the video couldn't 231 skip with a jumpslash recoil like I do in my other video, it just gets to unloaded B1
Edit: Also, I forgot to say it but grats to Bloob for getting that on video :)
Haha, me too :D
But I guess it's better to discover this now than later on when we are already far into the run ;)
I did some testing with this over year ago with this and I couldn't get it to work, I made this video back then showing the theory:
Link to video
But that doesn't mean it's impossible, I just never got it to work
No more deku stick, faster gohma fight and possibly faster ISG for Slab clip (I don't even know how to name the gohma clip now...)
Obviously it's just a suggestion and even me, I doubt this will be faster but I don't know what about after exiting Link' house, doing a megaflip and clip through the fence and then falling oob with some hoover after getting the sword, that might be an idea....
With stick ISG, gohma is already super fast anyway, sword wouldn't really speed it up much.
As for getting the sword and then going OoB back into the unloaded forest, that's a really cool idea... not sure if it would be quicker but it definately sounds cool, maybe it's worth looking into :P
Edit: you can megaflip off the top of the sword chest into unloaded kokiri forest
This is the closest I could get the blue warp to appear
http://i.imgur.com/ueBQt3P.png
After testing, I think the wrong warp would be doable using some kind of slide or fast movement (maybe an untargeted megaflip from inverted camera) towards the door. with ISG active, the camera tends to lag behind and with enough speed, the wrong warp can be achieved. [I performed the wrong warp by using a code to increase link's running speed slightly, and the camera was far enough behind for the warp to be loaded while link runs through the door]
Keep going guys! I just know this is solvable.
PF took 4:45 and Pinnacle Rock 2:20. Doing Pinnacle Rock twice would be slightly faster than PF, but if you add in the time it takes to recreate the eggs in Pinnacle and the time Hookshot saves, doing PF should be way faster.
There has been a clip which makes pinnacle quicker but you're still probably right about that. I just really like the idea of skipping hookshot and PF :D
And about lullaby skip: the new TAS would be on JP obviously and on JP when the wind pushes you against an edge you lose all your speed. We would need to start a new HISS/superslide each time the wind stopped blowing if we wanted to do it that way. Also, getting to mountain village to unlock that section of the map won't take that long because we can just soar there via the deku palace map spot which we'd already have by that point in the run.
sack_bot wrote:
One thing I can see for exploration is seeing if the R button ever leads anywhere, because it seemingly sends you to a different soft lock each time, and if that will ever not send you to a softlock.
It seems to be writing values to weird places, but those places seem to be in areas which we already can write to with BA. Nothing useful yet but we can keep hoping.
The new glitch is going to change the TAS routing quite a bit, our explosive usage is now going to be hugely different too.
- We don't have to hover up stone tower
- We probably won't get zora mask straight away
- This means that we won't be doing the FFWW from great bay to ikana
- Most movement from area to area will mainly be song of soaring
- We do need to hover over to the hidden owl at the start of 2nd cycle
- We still need to do the FFWW from woodfall to snowhead to lullaby skip
- Inside dungeons could stay the same
We have some potential options to try out, need to time some things and consider different methods of doing stuff.
Just a reminder of what the warps are:
Cursor position -> song of soaring destination
0) Great Bay -> Great Bay Coast
1) Zora Hall -> Zora Cape
2) Romani Ranch -> Snowhead
3) Deku Palace -> Mountain Village
4) Woodfall -> Clock Town
5) Clock Town -> Milk Road
6) Snowhead -> Woodfall
7) Ikana Graveyard -> Southern Swamp
8) Ikana Canyon -> Ikana Canyon
9) Goron Village -> Stone Tower
10) Stone Tower -> Dungeon Entrance Text (Softlock)
We have some options for orders of dungeons with the above combinations, however, we actually need to have been to these areas in order to be able to select them on the map.
Potentially, we could use 1st cycle to make our way up to mountain village which would unlock it on the map. If we can get there and back in the time it takes before midnight then great. In reality, I'm not so sure we can go that fast. There is a warp back from snowhead to termina field using the midnight cutscene, however I think using that would waste more time than it would save.
I was also considering hookshot and PF skip. With song of time storage we could do 3 trips of pinnacle rock (1 trip for 2 eggs, another trip for 2 eggs, final trip for 3 eggs). Depending on when we want to do eggs in the route, hookshot skip could be a thing because it's only used in dungeons now and each one of those can be replaced with hovers or other strats. Again, it's something that would need to be timed.
I think routing this is going to be pretty fun. I'll post more stuff as the route ideas develop I guess
Could you maybe put up an unlisted video of that one? I don't really get which place you mean yet.
Link to video <-- this is the sort of thing I was thinking of. It works with a ton of different angles, but the positioning you start the megaflip at is a little stricter for some reason (obviously the positioning is different for every angle though)
But after looking at the height of the transition plane for the basement to reload the room, I realise it's higher up than I thought, which means it's less likely to actually save time... Still, it might be worth investigating
This trick doesn't work as child (which is what I actually found the trick as) since he just pops back up.
MrGrunz wrote:
how did he get into that position in the first place?
For the other bombless setup, this is how you get to it:
Link to video
Though sockfolder's new setup on the other ledge is probably best since in a TAS you can just use rocks to boost you anyway (instead of bombs) so it shouldn't be a problem :)
GaS was able to get OoB by doing this clip and getting pushed by Gohma at the same time... I'm not sure it's possible to kill her and also do it though, and also I worry that gohma wouldn't finish dieing in time, if that's an issue.
Just wanted to mention that this is the clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCNIkxn8cmc
However I'm pretty sure it won't be useful if performed like this.
I have also found a way to skip the web to B1 by clipping at the wall at top of the ladder using a megaflip. when I performed the trick, I used bombs but I'm pretty sure now that it should be possible from the skullwalltula in a TAS.
Edit: SVA also found an easiser/quicker way to clip through gohma's door http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKs-XEjmo2k it may still be faster to do the other method though, since you don't need to get her as close
