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Dark Fulgore wrote:
FreshFeeling wrote:
Hm, sorry. I guess I figured KI2 was released on SNES too because I remember reading about that in Nintendo Power years ago.
Okay, so AceOfShades' post was that much more significant; this run is good.
have a KI 2 ( hack ) in SNES...is the same thing of KI 1...but you can choose Eyedol in character select screen and the secret stages comes in Orchid stage (Sky Stage) and Spinal stage (Secret Skulls Stage)...
You could play as Eyedol in KI1 anyway.
I always thought it was "Fight On", and used to say it along with the announcer (imitating the tone and distortion).
Glashiush. Thpinal! Fighhkct. oghn.
"Killer Inshtinct."
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yep, I knew about that technique - and had factored it into my routes.
I've pretty much given up on the bot idea - it just wasn't beating the best non-tool assisted times.
Instead I'm going to try to make a Gimp (like photoshop for linux) plug-in so that I can draw the moves it should do (green for left, red for right) and have it calculate and draw the path it's taking over the map - so I can see the route and adjust it from above - with the bot taking care of easily automated things like when to hit accelerate, charging the 'boost counter', hopping the moment before hitting dirt and luck manipulation.
I have made a gimp-plugin before, so I'm sure this is possible.
ETA: some time next year (or the year after that...) :P
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We're back in business baby!
New hard drive + testdisk = system fullly up and running again with all partitions restored :-D
Not that I have any time to work on the run now, but I'm quite happy anyway.
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SpiDeY wrote:
Huffers wrote:
bah, was making some good progress on this.
but now my boot sector appears to be damaged and the harddrive with all my unbacked-up work in progress might be dead.
you can still recover your files
there are people who can do it, just call someone who works with it
yeah, I think I'll probably (hopefully) be able to recover the files - but I don't have time to do anything about fixing that machine for about a week :(
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bah, was making some good progress on this.
but now my boot sector appears to be damaged and the harddrive with all my unbacked-up work in progress might be dead.
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krunkalastic wrote:
I had always thought sliding DECREASED velocity...interesting to know it doesn't!
me too, and I always thought hopping changed the kart's handling, but it doesn't - it's while you hold down hop or not
Edit: I've convinced Bisqwit to make me an editor, and made a page about Super Mario Kart's Physics which I intend to keep up to date with corrections, etc.
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A Runnelid wrote:
One of the things you need to do to trigger that type of boost, is release the gas after collision. (I'm not using them myself so I wouldn't be able to give any better advice, I'm afraid.)
Edit: Also, it would only be worthwhile after a speed increase from a boost pad/arrow or Mushroom.
Andreas
Ah thanks, I was going crazy trying to get those extended boosts to work.
I suspect it won't be worthwile from a mini-boost either, but I'll try checking it out anyway.
NMcCoy wrote:
Is the sideways slide simply added to your velocity? It might be possible to exploit some F-Zero-like "snaking" if that's the case.
Nope, I don't think so. Sliding changes your direction, but not your speed.
Initially I thought that these mini-boosts obtained from sliding and releasing R were somehow caused by tricking the game into giving you slide velocity, but forwards, but now it's been shown that that isn't the case.
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I can't get boosting + hop + hit wall to get a long boost to work :(
I've seen videos of it done, but I haven't conclusively been able to get it to work with these new speed boosts or mushrooms :-/
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yep
I just realised Nesvideos is really a kinda wiki.
But I don't have editor permissions... yet
do I email Bisqwit or something?
edit: just realised I simul-posted at the same time as Bisqwit
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On the super mario kart plan thread people have been finding lots of game information, routes, glitches, links/files etc.
But if someone wants to find all of it, they'd have to read the whole thread the whole way through, including lots of redundant information and stuff that later turned out to be wrong.
It would be really useful to have somewhere where the latest revision of all of this information could be kept in one place. Preferably a wiki, so that anyone can easily add more information and corrections.
This would also be useful for people who wanted to find out more about how a TAS was made after it's been published (rather than needing a huge novel for the submission text - the submission text could be a brief summary, and people could go to the entry in the wiki for more detailed info).
This should make improving TAS's easier, since all the best info is there, and you don't have to dig through long threads to find it all.
Do other people think this would be useful?
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flagitious wrote:
AzHP wrote:
Is there a value in memory that changes when a boost is ready? That would make things real easy. =)
boost counter
7e10ca 1u (need 128)
Bah, I just came online to post that I've found it, and I've been beaten to it :)
The reason I didn't spot this boost counter earlier is because it isn't reset by driving into dirt - and I thought it would be.
Huffers wrote:
I have found the game records how many frames L/R and left/right have both been pressed in a row, but it doesn't reset this value when the kart hits dirt, but I'm almost certain the boost charge is reset when this happens.
Whoops ;-)
Also, this boost counter is 2 unsigned bytes, not one - it can go above 256.
A lot of what I posted above I've found to be wrong.
While being charged the boost counter appears to go up one per frame up to 20, then 2 per frame. It appears to charge for 2 frames after you've stopped charging it (this may be some sort of input-delay in snes9x).
Stopping charging resets the boost counter.
Hitting stuff doesn't reset it, nor does driving through dirt.
once you get to 128 or more, when you next reset the counter (by doing anything that can reset it, eg not pressing L/R or left/right), you get a boost when you next straighten out+aren't drifting sideways + aren't holding L/R/right/left... whatever you do in the mean time
even if you spin out, or hop again and start charging the boost counter again.
The only way you can appear not to get the boost, once it's gone from 128+ to 0 AFAIK, is to press L or R after the boost has started (you've straightened out etc), but before the boost is noticable.
If you straighten out in mid-air (remember the boost isn't noticable until you land), then press L/R this will then stop you from getting the boost (because the boost has kinda started, but it's just not noticable till you land).
Also, accelerate needs to be held as well to charge the boost.
Switching which of L/R is being pressed seems to sometimes reset the boost counter a few frames later, and sometimes not... not sure why yet.
nitsuga wrote:
What if you press L/R to and hit a player/obstacle/wall during the hop while you're at the peak of the boost? Hitting something during a jump seems to prevent your speed from decreasing for a short while, and you could hopefully keep charging as normal.
Also, does doing a boost during a mushroom boost or after using a star give an even greater effect than normal? And I think I read something about how it's possible to use these boosts to cross over any body of deep water without even losing speed.
good points... more investigation needing to be done.
This boost thing looks like it must have been an intentional feature, I wonder why Nintendo didn't document it?
edit: I think I've discovered why switching L/R during charging seemed to sometimes reset the boost-counter -- on my keyboard I can't press L,right, and accelerate at the same time, it cuts out one of the inputs.
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DK64_MASTER wrote:
But a distributed computing grid would be awesome. ... It would probably be a bitch to code, too.
Yep, thats the reason I'm not doing it :)
AzHP wrote:
Is there a value in memory that changes when a boost is ready? That would make things real easy. =)
I've been looking for it. No luck yet :(
I have found the game records how many frames L/R and left/right have both been pressed in a row, but it doesn't reset this value when the kart hits dirt, but I'm almost certain the boost charge is reset when this happens.
AzHP wrote:
Can you start charging a new boost as soon as the old boost is released? That is, charging the frame after boosting...Hope that made sense.
Pressing L or R during a boost stops the boost, so it's best to start charging again exactly when the boost hits its peak (it drops off rapidly then anyway).
SXL wrote:
btw, does the movie saving works, Huffers ? it should since they are stored in savestates, due to bulletproof recording. could you show us some examples of what the bot achieves at the moment ?
Erm... how do I extract the movie file from the savestate?
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Thanks for the help, SprintGod :)
I think I now know enough to start changing the bot and its routes (although I'll have to do some more experiments later on - e.g. does snow behave the same way as dirt?)
Here's a summary of what I know about SMK's physics (or am at least pretty sure of):
Accelerate moves you in the direction the screen is facing, not the direction the kart is drawn as facing.
The kart's handling is completely unaffected by being in midair.
Turning left or right causes the kart to move in the opposite direction, up to a point. Moving at high speeds exaggerates this effect, and holding L or R greatly exaggerates it.
L/R have this effect whether the kart is in air or not -- the hop the kart does when L or R is pressed down doesn't affect the handling.
Skidding does not slow the kart down, nor does it slow the kart's acceleration.
Driving over dirt without pressing accelerate causes the kart to deccellerate slower, but will eventually slow the kart to a halt.
For every frame while one of {L or R} and one of {right or left} are held down, a 'boost' is charged.
releasing L/R or right/left destroys the boost-charge
You may swap right or left without destroying the boost-charge, so long as at least one is held down each frame.
Driving onto dirt destroys the boost-charge.
Using a feather destroys the boost-charge.
Over-charging may make 'skidding-out' while skidding happen sooner.
How charged the boost is doesn't affect how fast or long the boost is. It's all or nothing.
To use the boost (when sufficiently charged), release L/R.
the boost will then happen as soon as the kart straightens out, isn't moving sideways, and left/right aren't pressed.
Pressing L or R during the boost will stop the boost.
Driving over dirt won't stop the boost.
Using a feather during the boost won't stop the boost.
Swapping which of L/R is being held during charging causes the kart to hop
after the hop starts the boost-charge will continue to build with or without L/R being held.
after the hop starts the boost-charge won't dissappear if left/right aren't pressed every frame
you may hop again without losing the boost charge.
if the kart straightens out, isn't moving sideways, left/right aren't being pressed, and L/R aren't being pressed the boost happens.
the same as above, but L/R are pressed then the boost-charge is just lost.
If the kart is straightened, not moving sideways and left/right + L/R are released in mid-air, then the boost happens immediately upon landing -- even if the kart lands in dirt.
I'm not sure how long you have to charge the boost for, or what affects how quickly it charges. But I don't think this is too important.
Edit: A lot of the above is a load of crap, see below for better information
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chester wrote:
Huffers, did you disable video output during the bot search, in order to save computation time ?
I'd be curious to see your time-zones for Mario Circuit 1, if you have any picture of them ...
And yeah, great job to have a bot up and running in the first place !
thanks :)
Yep, I disabled video and sound output (but left it in as an option, for debugging), but it draws every 500th frame it does so I can see roughly how far it's up to and it hasn't got stuck or anything.
There isn't much point in posting the old quadralaterals I worked out, since I'm going to change them completely when I know more about these boosts (and its a hassle because the computer they're saved on isn't connected to the net atm).
Oh, and feathers don't interfere with the boosts - extra long jumps ahoy! :)
Now just to work out if mushrooms interfere with them, and how to best do off-road boosts....
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I have some ideas...
but I want to investigate these boosts a bit more until I'm confident I've worked out the best way to get the most from them, before I go back and modify my bot to play better.
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hehe, I've found it's possible to get boosts on straights, without even changing the karts angle or losing any speed at all!
- by wiggling the left and right buttons at approximately 15 Hz while holding R, and then letting go of R.
Now the question is: can I use these boosts in conjunction with a feather to cross even longer gaps...
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flagitious wrote:
Nitsuja, I'm just curious, how does the save state contain the movie file without being nearly as large as the movie file?
Huffers: even if its not as fast as the WR I'd still be curious what your time was, to compare it to the non-NBT record. And again even if its not as fast as the non-NBT record its still quite an accomplishment considering you automated the whole thing and these records are close to perfect with 12+ years of people working on them.
Changing input every 4 frames, it did it in just under 1:02 -- which beat my 30% speed trail run (on which I did lots of reloading), but is nowhere near the record.
But not only was my bot not using NBTs, it wasn't using 'old boosts' (hop, turn, skid, skid the other way, release R) either -- and it'll take me a while to figure out the optimal way to get those boosts, and maybe some major reprogramming.
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GuanoBowl wrote:
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, MAKE A VIDEO!!!!!
It's not beating the world record time yet, because I didn't know about this 'NBT' trick stuff... and it's going to be tricky figuring out how the NBT stuff really works and how to best do it -- so don't expect a video any time soon :P
And I probably won't have a chance to do any TASing today as I'm going to the zoo and for a meal with a young lady -- but hopefully I'll get rid of her early if I spend the whole date talking about Super Mario Kart :)
Ouch, that looks painful...