I'm definitely not saying that I think the run should be rejected as a result of not being 100%, I just personally believe that if you're going to showcase a hack, you should play as much of it as possible in your run.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
I don't feel that I should vote "no" or "meh" on this run because it's definitely not no- or meh-worthy. However, I don't feel that I can vote "yes" on this run, because it is a hack, and my opinion on hacks is that they should be as fully demonstrated as possible, otherwise why are you showcasing them?
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
There's also twisting a conversation from the question asked by the poster to "hey, let me just step in for a moment to express my disapproval".
Warp wrote:
The original poster asked about changing the graphics of games, and I expressed my disapproval of it.
No.
Ramzi wrote:
How hard would it be to ...
Not, "Hey, should I ..." or "Would anyone be offended if I ...". This, specifically, isn't an opinion question as to the end result, it's an opinion question of the difficulty of the task.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Make sure that you are storing cookies with your browser, Odongdong. Besides that, I am not sure what could be causing your issue. (But someone else might have ideas.)
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
In order to get the Mattock, the hidden item counter at 0x043A needs to read 0. The first time I enter the room with the Mattock, I haven't visited any other hidden item rooms, so the counter goes from 0 to 1. On the fourth visit to that room, the counter resets to 0 and the Mattock will appear.
Because I am on the screen anyways, and I have to sit through the screen transitions, it's actually faster to kill the three additional jumping enemies rather than spend more resources killing two more of the mage enemies later.
Addendum: Farming in the room beside the Mattock takes 192, 193, and 189 frames (totalling 574 frames) from leaving the Mattock screen to leaving the first room of the Tower, whereas killing the mages beside Forepaw takes 294, 296, 296, 295, 296, 296, 253, and 238 -- dropping those last two because Deluge is involved, roughly 295 frames per kill, times two because I would need to make up the Golds, 590 frames, which would be 16 frames slower. [Edit 2:] than things currently - the time difference would actually be greater because those 192, 193, and 189 frame counts are the total times for leaving the second room, killing the enemy in the first room, and leaving the first room, not the totals of just transitioning screens.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
So, who's volunteering to set up the IRC <--> Discord bot?
And, who's going to own the channels, and make sure that the mods are 1:1 from Discord to IRC?
Who's going to update the existing IRC bot to crosspost to Discord when forum posts go up?
Anyone? Bueller?
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
The major problem I see with a Discord server that isn't as present on IRC is that Discord ops are clearly marked, while the #tasvideos lives on a network that encourages ops to only op themselves when absolutely necessary. It removes the sense of baseline equality that makes the IRC channel a place I have decided to stay connected to for as long as I have.
The other major problem with Discord is something people are touting as a plus: voice communication. With IRC, there is a living log that you can copy, paste, and save for later, and you can enjoy that log by remaining connected to the server even if you're away. If voice communication is where people do more/most of their talking, then people lose the ability to scroll up and see what was being discussed, and that record is lost.
Discord does make 1-1 communication better, with its logged private messages, and it enables 1-1 voice calls too, but the simple fact that it exists and does these things does not make it the ideal move for our community.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Aran, I assure you that every judge on the site is familiar with the requirements for a movie to be published to Moons or promoted to Stars. You don't need to repeat them here.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Thank you, andypanther.
Schmeman, you don't have to agree with me, that's the nature of an online web forum. Or a conversation. Or existence. Your opinion is different than mine in this matter.
As I stated in my original post on this thread, I find the gameplay here to be on par with the standards that have been set in Super Metroid TASes on this site, there's nothing lacking there. But, to be completely honest, that's what it is - on par. Yes, new ways were found to exploit existing techniques. Yes, new glitches were found that made the route possible. However, the reality is perhaps that I have become so accustomed to Super Metroid speedruns that they have lost their luster. Perhaps, watching Super Metroid run after Super Metroid run has made me, as an individual, less excited about the new Super Metroid run, and thus it doesn't get my automatic "yes" vote.
The purpose of the "Meh" vote is that it was enjoyable enough to not warrant a "No" vote, but not enjoyable enough to merit a "Yes". Meh votes count positively toward a movie's score, and that score is assessed by the judge when it comes time to determine which tier the movie ends up in. The exact formula is (Yes + 0.5 * Meh) / (Yes + Meh + No). The question of "should the TAS be published" is why we have judges in the first place, and they use the thread's discussion, the votes, and their own judgment to determine whether that happens. With all due respect, letting a flood of new users come in and determine "should this TAS be published" when they are coming in from some other community just to vote would be a bad way to run the site, as there are categories and movies that do not meet the standards of the site.
And, to your point that "Even TASes that aren't necessarily entertaining can be interesting", we have the Vault, and we have published movies of what basically amount to movement optimization puzzles (like Polarium and DenkiBlocks, any% and 100%, both of which I linked for you, where the objective is obvious, the solution takes time to determine, and an optimal solution is very difficult and interesting to find. But, even in those games, there's entertainment in seeing the solution played out.
Entertainment is not the primary factor in determining whether the movie is published. It is a factor in determining if the movie is Moons quality, alongside other things that I mentioned earlier in this post.
I hope that answers your questions.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
I am quite aware of the voting guidelines. While the movie does perform low% better than existing movies in its category (13% instead of 14%), and the gameplay is on par with all similar movies of its type, I am quite content to say that my "Meh" vote comes how I felt while watching the movie. I am not required to vote "yes" because it beats records, I am required to vote how I feel after watching the piece.
Habreno, as I said in my original post, I am aware that I am shouting until I am blue in the face unto the void. That is not going to stop me from trying to correct peoples' use of terminology, particularly on a forum where technical precision is required.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Aran, all three of the definitions of underflow on the page you linked are correct - smaller than the smallest non-zero value that can be stored. Underflow refers to floating point precision errors, of which this is not.
As to not using it in this particular movie, I was under the impression, from the submission notes that the option to activate the overflow glitch was available, due to the routing. total_, over IRC, pointed out that not enough Power Bombs are collected for Crystal Flash, which means that this particular route cannot even trigger the glitch in the first place.
My vote still stands at Meh.
Speaking specifically to the 14% branches that exist, I wasn't around for the discussions surrounding them, but it is obvious that people voted for them to be published. My issue is not with them being published but with them being published side-by-side, as again it is a routing decision, which should not be reflected as a separate branch in my opinion.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
1) Full Halfie describes the evolution of the name and preserves the history of the trick. It also gives RTA commentators the ability to say, "Well, she nailed the Halfie but missed the Full Halfie." "Underflow" is simply wrong, in a correctable way, regardless of how "everyone" understands what it standards (sic) for. Underflow is a precise term in computer science, as is overflow, and overflow is the term that describes the exact circumstance.
2) There are already runs that are "0% finishing the game in 10 mins or so." The slowest of those, from 2008, is in 22 minutes, and now sits at 7:15. There's even a GT Code movie published in there. And they exist in their own separate branch, as they should. 13%, however, is the branch that this submission is aiming for (well, low%, which will hopefully obsolete all of the 14% branches which, in my opinion, shouldn't exist, because item choice is a routing decision, not a branching decision, regardless of what other sites claim), and it should, as low% / 13%, aim for speed, as it is a speedrun. As such, I will continue to argue that, while the route allows collecting enough resources to activate missile overflow (or negative overflow if you prefer), they should. I stand by my Meh vote.
As to your point that "rush this glitch and the run is over," that is 1) in the nature of glitches, and 2) something that would occur at 28 minutes into the submission, more than half of the movie over, and balancing resources, and doing everything that you are claiming you want to see in a run, with a turning point of, "And now I have Excalibur / Ultimate Armor / ..." and can complete the game with ease. It would not really affect Phantoon to overflow super missiles, because of his rage mode, and would greatly influence the Mother Brain fight, and any super missile-vulnerable enemies between Maridia and Tourian. It wouldn't affect the Metroid fights, it would barely affect how enemies are killed along the way, and it would, given this route, only really shorten the final boss.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
I had already made my opinion on the subject widely known while this TAS was in production, but here it is again, in this thread and not some other:
1) It's called overflow, not underflow, because words mean things. If you want to be precise and pedantic about the way the numbers are going, it's negative overflow. Still overflow, not underflow. I completely get that I am basically yelling myself blue in the face against an uncaring black void, but if the goal is to entertain and enlighten, there's some enlightenment.
2) "This gives the user a large amount of ammo which would then not require the user to have charge beam for the boss fights. Sniq chose to forgo the Draygon glitch because it would make the route very unlike low% (the spirit of it) and instead chose to go with the route you see here."
What that would also do is be more in-line with the idea of a TAS, regardless of the content that it trivializes, and would be far more entertaining to me as a player and a viewer, because errors in the programming are being taken advantage of. Forgoing "it makes the game easier" as a result of gameplay is a decision that only serves to make your movie longer, suggesting that you are no longer interested in the fastest time (which is in the definition of a speedrun), but instead some other arbitrary restriction based on "the spirit of the category", which doesn't really make sense anyways. You have the opportunity to take advantage of this glitch/accounting error, and you choose not to do so though it would greatly speed up the rest of the game.
For those reasons, I have to vote Meh.
With my vote out of the way, I want to state, quite plainly, that this run continues to live up to the standards of incredible optimization of movement and ammunition conservation, danger, and shock and awe that has come to be expected as the baseline for a Super Metroid submission, so I do congratulate you on that, Sniq, and everyone else involved in the creation of the run even if your names aren't listed as authors.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Any .tasproj I have tried to open in TAStudio in 1.11.8 or 1.11.8.2 (of Faxanadu for the NES) has failed to load, giving me:
See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.
************** Exception Text **************
System.IndexOutOfRangeException: Index was outside the bounds of the array.
at BizHawk.Client.EmuHawk.TAStudio.SetUpToolStripColumns()
at BizHawk.Client.EmuHawk.TAStudio.GetClientSettingsOnLoad(String settingsJson)
at BizHawk.Client.Common.TasMovie.Load(Boolean preload)
at BizHawk.Client.Common.MovieSession.QueueNewMovie(IMovie movie, Boolean record, IEmulator emulator)
at BizHawk.Client.EmuHawk.MainForm.StartNewMovie(IMovie movie, Boolean record)
at BizHawk.Client.EmuHawk.TAStudio.StartNewMovieWrapper(Boolean record, IMovie movie)
at BizHawk.Client.EmuHawk.TAStudio.HandleMovieLoadStuff(TasMovie movie)
at BizHawk.Client.EmuHawk.TAStudio.LoadFile(FileInfo file, Boolean startsFromSavestate)
at BizHawk.Client.EmuHawk.TAStudio.OpenTasMenuItem_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.RaiseEvent(Object key, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripMenuItem.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleMouseUp(MouseEventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.FireEventInteractive(EventArgs e, ToolStripItemEventType met)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.FireEvent(EventArgs e, ToolStripItemEventType met)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mea)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripDropDown.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mea)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripDropDown.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
In 1.11.8, I was able to create a new .tasproj from the .bk2s that I was saving as backups (thank you for that feature!) but trying to load a .bk2 in 1.11.8.2 gave the above error as well.
Clarification: A .tasproj or a .bk2 saved in the directory where I keep my input files will not load and gives the above error. A .tasproj in ./Movies/backup/ will also give that error, but a .bk2 loaded from there (created automatically by the autosave functionality) becomes a new project without issue.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Oh, that does nicely answer the bouncer thing, thanks. I hope the bomb is fixed too, really don't want you to have to do it a third time.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
My question, entirely unrelated to the setting of RAM beforehand, is why you use abilities with no result early in the run (0:24, 0:35), and why you fire one Bomb too many at around 4:08 - there's nothing in the way, you just launch an extra Bomb into the wall for no apparent reason.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
DrD2k9: First off, hi, thanks for submitting an input file to the site. Please don't be discouraged by the negative reaction - there are many reasons that people seem to be voting against your particular submission, and I would like to try to explain why in a way that doesn't offend anyone.
Secondly, please note the "edit" button that is always available to you if your post is the most recent. That's there so that you don't double post, which, while not something we frown upon here, is general Netiquette.
Thirdly, the point of this post:
You seem to be misconstruing ais523's comments as insults when they are actually observations and criticisms. Instead of repeating all of the words here and creating a bloated post, I just want to drill down on one point: your goal choice. Seeing all combinations of kills in the game is, as has been pointed out, something that a YouTube video might showcase. Similarly, it's something that the developers of the game added to chess that makes it, as a game, stand out against all other chess games. There is no superhuman skill involved in making a Rook capture another Rook to tick off that particular combination in the "captured" matrix, especially when you set up the board beforehand.
Therefore, the other S in TAS must be considered - superplay is out, speedrun is in.
And that turns checking all of the boxes in the matrix into a separate kind of puzzle - how do you tick all of the boxes the fastest? The solution you present gets the job done in roughly 18.5 minutes. Then FractalFusion comes along and solves the problem in just over 14.25 minutes. Thus you are losing on the speedrun aspect as well. That happens when something gets into the submission queue. People go over what you have done, comment and criticize, and there's a resolution.
Nobody's words in this thread have been intended to hurt you. None of them have called your skill as a TASer into question. They have talked exclusively about the submission's goal choice and some disappointment about aiming for the goal while ignoring time, and one member demonstrated how to achieve the goal in less time.
Finally, I want to address these directly:
DrD2k9 wrote:
On a slightly unrelated note: I personally would love to learn more about the technological side of coding, video games, and TASing. But I like to do things methodically, and I honestly have no idea where or how to begin.
To that, we have a Game Resources section on the site that contains a lot of interesting information about TASing, and there are many books about how to learn Java, Python, C, and other languages if you want to start thinking about programming, even casually. Personally, writing your own code and deciding how to structure data helps to inform about how other people might structure their data, which helps when you're using RAM Search to track down memory addresses. "It seems reasonable to store the player's X position closely to the Y position," is definitely something I've said, and it has helped trim down search results. People on this forum are generally friendly and helpful if you ask informed questions, so please don't hesitate to use them.
DrD2k9 wrote:
Even if/when my TAS attempts are rejected by the community, I still feel a sense of accomplishment in something I approach as a hobby, because I've still done something I would never have been able to achieve while playing a game normally.
This is true - you did the thing, and nobody can take away from you the fact that you did the thing. This is not an attempt at sarcasm, this is an honest statement. You tried, you contributed, you put in the hours. The next time you try to TAS something, you will have some skills, some knowledge, and some awareness of potential pitfalls; you can only improve from here.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Body price is $B$4
Nature price is $B$5
Blood price is $B$6
Soul price is $B$7
For the rest, you want to start by highlighting E2 and multiplying by $B10 (note the lack of a $ beside 10) and then copying and pasting down the column.
$ is basically "anchor" - no matter where you copy the formula to, whatever follows the $ will remain fixed.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
After a lot of time being frustrated with my progress, and then starting over with a new route plan (I tried using a bunch of magic along the route with the intention of collecting the Glove, which would increase the Dagger's damage from 5 to 7 and let me kill the white mage enemies in four hits instead of six. Unfortunately, that didn't pan out because saving one swing across eleven enemies didn't make up for the two additional screen transitions required to collect it), I'm now basically following Lord Tom's room routing. However, I've managed to save 117 frames by the end of the first dungeon/tower! Progress!
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/34354022453190386Link to video
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Saturn, all of this fighting back and forth is getting tiring. Just release your gods damned tax returns input file so that comparative work can continue with the game.
Comparing against a video is a serious pain in the ass, especially when there are timing issues involved, and if the inputs line up, as you say, then working from an input file is going to be much more reliable than working from a video.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Here's a rather difficult level that I finally managed to upload after a few months of attempts: World Kaizo-1.
DA15-0000-02A8-57FC
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Even in light of the submission comments being updated, I wish to maintain my "no" vote as a "no" vote. An optimized run of plain Sisters mode, even in Normal, would likely be entertaining for all of the reasons Samsara mentioned, but this "best of both worlds" (crazy damage bonus, none of the challenge) fusion does not entertain me.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
This line seems a lot disingenuous, given that you are using New Game+ through a glitch, and not playing through normal mode on a raw file like that run does.
Maybe, but I started attacking Legion and Mummy Man earlier and used corner boost while going up as often as I can. This run is technically more optimized than the run on Nicovideo for sure.
Quite honestly, and without a trace of sarcasm, I look forward to reading the detailed submission notes where you talk about these types of movement improvements, and not the comparisons due to damage.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
