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How do you exactly know when entities go offscreen? This information would be very helpful for future TASes.
It is probably possible to visualize it by luascript.
For my own projects I've only relied on trial and error.
RNG values aren't advancing if the entity has gone offscreen too far (= it has gone inactive).
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Alright. I have watched most of it now.
I'm really happy that a new run has been finished on the game I spent so much time on and that you managed to go under 1 hour. You can be proud of your work.
The teleporting which you did in some rooms looks very nice. It's just a shame it takes long to set it up.
You did shenanigans with switching action commands to play sound effects in sync with the BGM, which is nice. I just would have liked it if you'd also used the start button in some places like I did in the WIP (in mushroom kingdom town, in the Splash Bros tutorial or vs. Bowser).
There are some possible time saving improvements, but they either don't amount to much or are due to RNG manipulation.
Some tricks aren't documented well (such as the 27 hits thing, falling down a yellow pipe causing coin loss, etc.). About RNG manipulation, it is reasonable that not too much time was spent on it or else this project would have been pushed back another year with not much to gain in return.
However, you could have spent more effort on the minecart game. It really feels like you just copied my input over without making sure flashlight movement are synced to sound effects. You also missed some gems. You should get all 15, as that is the most impressive thing to do.
Yes vote.
I will be happy if this gets an improved TAS sometime in the future.
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So about the shop flags - All tests done on US version except when noted otherwise.
"More items in shops 1" (0x433D Bit 0) is set when defeating Chuckolator.
"More items in shops 2" (0x433D Bit 1) is set when defeating Mom Piranha.*
"More items in shops 3" (0x433D Bit 2) is set when defeating Trunkle.*
"More items in shops 4" (0x433D Bit 3) is set when collecting the 4th starbean piece.*
"More items in shops 5" (0x433D Bit 4) is set when defeating Popple & Birdo.
* These were confirmed by playing back a movie file on the Japanese version. I do not think the flags are different between the versions though.
Only the highest shop flag counts, so for example if you have set "more items in shops 5", you will have all items available in all shops and it doesn't matter if any of the previous flags "more items in shops 1-4" are set.
Bean Town clothing shop (Jeans):
- Bean Pants
- Bean Trousers
- Blue Jeans
- Parasol Pants (1)
- Hard Pants (1)
- Heart Jeans (1)
- Plaid Trousers (2)
- #1 Trousers (2)
- Safety Slacks (2)
- Street Jeans (3)
- Tropic Slacks (3)
- Hermetic Pants (3)
- Beanstar Pants (4)
- Peasley Slacks (4)
- Queen B. Jeans (4)
- B. Brand Jeans (5)
- Heart Slacks (5)
- Casual Slacks (5)
Bean Town clothing shop (Badges):
- Castle Badge
- Pea Badge
- Bean B. Badge (1)
- Counter Badge (1)
- Charity Badge (1)
- Bros. Badge (2)
- Miracle Badge (2)
- Ohoracle Badge (2)
- Power Badge (3)
- Wonder Badge (3)
- Beauty Badge (3)
- Salvage Badge (4)
- Oh-Pah Badge (4)
- Brilliant Badge (4)
- Sarge Badge (5)
- General Badge (5)
- Tank Badge (5)
Bean Town item shop:
- Mushroom
- Syrup
- Refreshing Herbs
- 1-Up (1)
- Super Mushroom (2)
- Nuts (2)
- Super Nuts (2)
- Super Syrup (3)
- Ultra Syrup (3)
- Max Mushroom (4)
- Max Nuts (4)
- Max Syrup (4)
- 1-Up Super (5)
Fungitown clothing shop (Jeans):
- Shroom Pants
- Shroom Bells
- Shroom Slacks
- Peachy Jeans (4)
- Mushwin Pants (4)
- Mushluck Pants (5)
- Scandal Jeans (5)
Fungitown clothing shop (Badges):
- Mush Badge
- Mari-Lui Badge
- Muscle Badge
- Spiny Badge AA (4)
- Mush Badge A (4)
- Grab Badge (5)
- Mush Badge AA (5)
Fungitown items shop:
- Mushroom
- Super Mushroom
- Ultra Mushroom
- Nuts
- Super Nuts
- Syrup
- Super Syrup
- Refreshing Herbs
- 1-Up Mushroom (4)
- 1-Up Super (5)
To answer your question, in order to be able to buy #1 Trousers from the Bean clothing shop, you have to defeat Mom Piranha or Trunkle or Popple & Birdo, or collect all 4 star bean pieces.
I still have doubts about using #1 Trousers, but you will probably know what you are doing.
I obviously didn't like it that I spent 51 frames manipulating the last battle but since those improvements were mentioned just now I had no other choice. Had you helped me out earlier, the RNG would proably not have taken as long to manipulate.
My aim is only to list all possible improvements in one place for when someone makes an improved any% TAS.
You can manipulate RNG without losing time or with losing only very little time, by optimizing the camera (having entities be active or inactive at different frame counts, thus causing a different advancement of RNG), but it is very time-consuming and tedious. That's the strategy I followed in Stardust Fields in my WIP and I would have done the same to luck-manipulate Hohooros. But at that point, it's a matter of whether you want to spend hundreds of hours of optimizing just to save half a second. And not everybody is willing to do that and those who are willing might not have enough time or they lose motivation.
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Potato wrote:
My question was if you happened to know which bosses enable those 5 flags. We will use them for Mario for the All Bosses route since it grants us the ability to attack first no matter what.
As for the 5 flags, I will test it today and update this post. (The overlay I will work on in the next 1-2 weeks.)
I think one or more of them might be set after talking with Queen Bean, but I will research it.
As for your plan to use #1 Trousers: I have never really been interested in All Bosses, but wouldn't it be the best strat to basicly go any% route, get mushbadge and then glitch to the other places? Aren't you too weak if you have #1 Trousers equipped?
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Potato wrote:
When are the #1 Trousers unlocked in the game? Is it after defeating Birdo or do you have access to them earlier? Can we figure that out while using the Events function of your script?
I don't know. My script does not tell the drops, but you can use the script to go to and finish each battle quickly to test it. Since there are "rare drops", you would have to enter the battle with changed RNG a few times to test for it. Of course, looking it up in the game's memory would be easier but I can't help with that. If jdaster is still around, he might be of more help since he has a better understanding of this topic.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For future reference, I'm looking for possible improvements in the submitted run.
Meeting Tolstar(2 frames)
Submission moves left on frame 43962. Tolstar's shade appears on frame 44589.
By moving left on 43960 or 43961, Tolstar's shade can appear one frame earlier.
If the submission pressed A to jump at frame 66965, Tolstar's dialogue would start 1 frame earlier.
Splash Bros(19 frames)
When doing Splash Bros, there is a short window of opportunity (often 1 or 2 frames) for Luigi to do his "B" action to speed up the move by one frame.
The submission presses B on frame 53450. By- pressing B on frame 53453, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 54321. By pressing B on frame 54324, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 54926. By pressing B on frame 54929, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 62167. By pressing B on frame 62170 or 62171, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 63384. By pressing B on frame 63387 or 63388, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 64303. By pressing B on frame 64306 or 64307, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 67616. By pressing B on frame 67619, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 68226. By pressing B on frame 68229, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 68869. By pressing B on frame 68872, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 69615. By pressing B on frame 69618, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 70305. By pressing B on frame 70308, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 70980. By pressing B on frame 70983, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 85057. By pressing B on frame 85060, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 86145. By pressing B on frame 86148, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 86842. By pressing B on frame 86845, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 87999. By pressing B on frame 88002, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 96609. By pressing B on frame 96612, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 97426. By pressing B on frame 97429, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses B on frame 98507. By pressing B on frame 98510, the move ends 1 frame sooner.
Optimizing for Battle defense phase end(17~23 frames)
In battle, while defending against enemy attacks, if Mario or Luigi are not actionable by the time the enemy attack is over, the defense phase is dragged out and it takes longer for the next scene to start.
The submission presses B to jump over a bullet bill as Luigi while defending on frame 53810. By either taking damage or by pressing B to jump in frame 53807-53809, the next scene starts 1 frame sooner.
The submission presses A to jump on a Fly as Mario while defending on frame 61628. Mario could instead take the hit to have the next scene start 1 frame sooner. Luigi kills this fly next round anyway.
The submission presses A to jump on a Fly as Mario while defending on frame 61792. Mario could instead take the hit to have the next scene start 1 frame sooner. You splash bros to kill it later anyway.
Given good RNG, íf this bottom-positioned fly attacked Luigi instead of Mario here, you could jump avoid it and the next scene would start even 8 frames sooner than the submission.
The submission presses B to jump on a Fly as Luigi while defending on frame 62431. Luigi could jump over the fly by pressing B on frame 62451 to have the next scene start 6 frames sooner. Luigi kills this fly next round anyway.
At about frame 63800, while defending, Mario takes the hit from the bottom-positioned fly.
Given good RNG, if this bottom-positioned fly attacked Luigi instead, he could jump avoid it and the next scene would start 7 frames sooner.
At about frame 64580, while defending, Luigi takes the hit from the fly. If Luigi jumped at frame 64587 to jump-avoid it, the next scene would start 8 frames sooner.
Dropping down yellow pipes(???)
The submission dropped to the ground of a yellow pipe at 48:18 in the video, which wastes 4 coins and a few frames.
More ideas for improvements
1st Stardust battle, Luigi jump defends on a Fly. Given good RNG, he could possibly jump-avoid over the Fly and then Lucky Hit to kill i and save approx. 6 frames.
2nd Stardust battle drops 2 mushrooms. -> Make it drop 3 mushrooms and don't get the 1 mushroom that takes longest to get in the current route.
Optimize RNG for the Stardust battles. Entering the 3rd battle takes a bit long.
You can try moving through previous rooms in a different way, or jumping to move the camera, or leave previous rooms at later frames, in order to advance the RNG differently.
Optimize RNG for Hohooros minigame. Entering Hohooros room takes a bit long. See hints above. You could possibly save 1.5 seconds. Minigame times for future reference:
#1 - The 2017 discontinued WIP - 23"98 (1 spin)
#2 - The 2021 submission - 22"98 (2 spins)
#3 - The 2012 old TAS - 22"06 (4 spins)
On the Mountain (room ID: 70), while Mario has ingested water, the submission had to go around a dry bones. Optimize RNG to avoid this.
Talking to a Toad NPC in Little Fungitown may be avoided.
Getting pushed back by a Toad NPC in Little Fungitown (after leaving item shop) may be avoided.
Waiting time on the last textbox before Cackletta takes a bit long (150 frames) and may be possible to reduce.
Consider possible improvements suggested in the submission text.
I will update this post when I find more improvements.
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Potato wrote:
Mugg, do you happen to know a website of some sorts that lists every boss' item drops?
We really need to know what items each boss drops for our All Bosses route. We decided to use English version over Japanese for the main reason that mush badge is way more broken on English and bosses can be killed far faster than Japanese could ever dream of.
We have checked sites like mariowiki but that is a pretty confusing site honestly.
https://themushroomkingdom.net/mlss_j2e.shtml#itemdrops
But I don't think it's a complete list.
You could probably just use my luascript to test this easily.
You can to go boss fights directly in the Events display, and you can use the Events display or "go to room" display to go anywhere.
You can use "stats" display to edit your pow and def before battle, or use "actors" in battle to drop bosses' hp to near zero.
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I'm not expecting any great news.... But does anyone happen to have the videos downloaded or the input file? I'm assuming not, which would be unfortunate because I saw this as part of the history of this game. Honestly a bummer... (Thiis post was made in this thread around 2010, for reference.)
This was a TAS by Kurikinton_sya on the Japanese version in 2011 or so. As far as I remember, he never provided the input file, only a small 10 second long .VBM that shows how he performs Bowser's Castle skip by Fire Dash glitch. I did not download the videos. It is not optimized.
I have an old VBM I made myself going through most of the game, but I really would recommend you route things out yourself. You are going to do bosses out of order anyway and use more advanced strats that were not known years ago.
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Congrats on finishing this run.
You actually did it!
The decade-long grinding finally has paid off.
I will give comments and feedback on it when I have time.
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ROM interacts with $A2CE (The address that controls whether the game is in "input recording" or "input playback" mode) at these locations:
$2089
$3135
$38B9
$38C0
In fact, if you run ace bug with this code: C4 BA 38
then the game adds one byte of input at $A300-$A3FF, depending on the address $A2CF (1 byte) which tells the offset where input is added.
C4 BA 38 does not update $A2CF, but C4 B7 38 does.
Unfortunately have not had the bug do changes to $A2CE yet. It keeps 0x00 so with the above ace bug, you cannot keep writing to $A300-$A3FF.
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I looked at the pause bug ace again.
* To reach credits, make $A203 onwards read one of these at the time of the bug occuring:
C4 B0 03
C4 B1 03
C4 B4 03
C4 B5 03
C4 B6 03
C4 D2 03
C4 D3 03
C4 D4 03
C4 D5 03
C4 D6 03
C4 D7 03
C4 D9 03
C4 DA 03
C4 DB 03
C4 DC 03
(The critical code is located in $03DC: 3E 12 E0 9B - Sets $FF9B to 12.)
C4 C3 05 - Used in the Pause bug run
C4 C4 05
C4 C5 05
C4 C6 05
C4 C9 05
C4 CA 05
C4 CB 05
C4 CD 05
C4 CE 05
C4 CF 05
C4 D0 05
(The critical code that triggers the credits is located in $05D0: 3E 23 E0 9B - Sets $FF9B to 23.)
* With this current method, it is also theoretically possible to mute audio, restart the level, game over or level clear.
* Possible opcodes seem to be:
C2 JP NZ,a16
C3 JP a16
C4 CALL NZ,a16
D2 JP NC,a16
D4 CALL NC,a16
* To achieve total control, an idea would be to set $A2CE temporarily to make the game record input (= your code) in $A300 ~ $A3FF (a remnant used by the devs to record input for the title screen demos).
When $A2CE is 0x01 ~ 0x0F, the game is in "playing back input" mode and you are no longer controlling Mario.
When $A2CE is 0x10 or above, the game is in "recording input" mode. Audio is muted (maybe the audio processing is skipped altogether). With no audio, pause bug does not work.
You could theoretically pause bug the block corresponding to $A2CE into a breakable block (value 0x00) by pause bug. But pause bug does not work in "recording" mode since audio is muted. Maybe it is possible to enable audio somehow while recording input.
Other ways of achieving total control seem very unfeasible. For example you could run pause bug ace multiple times to piece code together one by one, but that would require running around in levels which takes a lot of time.
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@Snodeca
I will look into it when I can.
I don't know what's the "new way" of doing it.
Although it is also deprecated, you may try using:
gui.DrawFinish()
You may be better helped asking in the Bizhawk lua help or Bizhawk dev topic.
@Potato
You cannot do it in the chateau maze. The left corner clip works because the passage is one tile wide. No such instance exists in the maze. You also cannot use tunnel clip in that room. At least as far as I tested.
Mario does not need to be flattened to do left corner clip.
Unfortunately I cannot help much with Cackletta.
Obviously you want to avoid long lasting attacks. Remember that RNG scrolls differently depending on your action in battle. In my old TAS, I chose Luigi's action depending what gives the best pattern.
Also remember that the enemy pattern changes depending what frame you enter the battle. So try waiting on the last text box before Bowletta.
Try waiting 0 frames, 1 frame, 2 frames, 3 frames ... Test all the scenarios.
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Watching the first 4 out of (probably) 12 episodes of season 2 of The Promised Neverland, I'm making these notes:
- The new opening is pretty good imo.
- The anime does a good job at showing how even the smaller children learn survival skills like herb collecting and hunting.
- I don't remember if the kids listening to the radio transmissions every evening or them hunting slimy fish is canon. Either way, the latter seems odd because fish could be poisonous and they didn't try to look it up in books first.
- Up until episode 4, until they find the shelter, it seems very faithful to the manga.
- After that point the anime changes things up drastically:
-- In the manga, the kids immediately find the "nameless man" in the manga, but he doesn't appear in the anime so far.
-- The scene of Isabella having to take responsibility for the children's escape: It happens right after the escape in the manga and it is short, with unknown outcome. In the anime it is different and broken up into multiple parts, showing that Isabella is being given a chance to live.
-- There are intruders to the shelter in episode 4, which didn't happen in the manga until much later in the plot (two arcs later). It seems odd to implement here, because "nameless man" didn't appear yet and he has to appear in the shelter since there are notes scratched into the wall or written in a book, associated to him and that would mean they have to take back the shelter they just abandoned - a bad idea since the enemy would know the location.
So basicly, since season 2 would be a bit lacklustre if it went straight on like in the manga, the showrunners seem to have decided to implement plot points that would only appear later. This is interesting, but the parts that are not faithful to the manga could confuse some fans.
In fact, manga fans on reddit seem rather pissed at the changes.
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I should mention that you can left corner bug the left side of the throne, but I haven't been able to clip the back brother. If it could be done on the right side with both brothers, you could do the clip you want.
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I was thinking of using Luigi Mole clipping glitch in this room after defeating Bowletta to skip the cutscene with Prince Peasly. Do you think this idea would work mugg?
Mole clip only has very limited uses because Mario in back doesn't clip. The part you circled in red is the cutscene trigger, right? You cannot clip above that part because no right ledge exists.
Try using teleport hat if possible, or go through the cutscene if it's faster.
I'm also thinking if you could hat teleport into the closed door in the barrel room while escaping.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmqE8qqyh_A&t=1m24s
This video uses fire dash glitch (JP) but the idea is the same.
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I know the old TAS did barrel clipping at the start, but because we are on the English version and not Japanese we can't really do that.
You are right.
That leaves teleporting which you said is probably slower.
If you give me a savestate from pipe 1, I can do some testing. (I'm not sure if follow path is reset on green pipe usage)
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In your terms, destination Z has to be lower than your current Z (i.e. a right ledge exists).
Say for example, in the gif that you used, there was a wall right at the end of that ledge on the right side of the ledge, where you managed to clip. This would mean the trick would not work, right?
In that case, a right ledge doesn't exist. So the trick will not work.
I am trying to use it in Stardust Fields room 2 (starting from the room with Pipe 1, which I consider to be room 1) to skip over that fence and reach the loading zone earlier.
These are rooms 1 and 2?
I think Mole glitch is useless in that room. You could only do it on the right side of the room to clip into walls at the top, from where Luigi can not zip (he would be ejected back out from there).
The old TAS uses barrel to cross the room.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pneQhV_aYc&t=59m12s
Maybe teleporting is also worth considering.
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Potato wrote:
MUGG wrote:
Potato wrote:
Hey Mugg, I hope you're still around here somewhere, because we need you to clarify how Luigi Mole clipping works. This can have a lot of potential for timesave for the TAS, but we're not sure how it exactly works. What are the conditions of it occuring? From your videos I was only able to figure out that you need to hammer Luigi in a spot where the Z is different than 0 and that is close enough to the edge of the ledge.
The Game Resources page doesn't really cover it in great detail, I've read it but couldn't get much information over just watching your 2 videos.
So, it only works on ledges that are above Z = 0 right?
It works on ledges, regardless of Z.
Your first priority is to get in the right position.
You can use →↓, ← and ←↓, → inputs.
Then your next priority is to approach the wall you want to clip into (top or bottom).
Are you trying to use the trick in Bowser's Castle room 1? I may have tried that and failed, but I can't remember.
But does it also work for right ledges that are blocked by a wall in the left direction?
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Potato wrote:
Hey Mugg, I hope you're still around here somewhere, because we need you to clarify how Luigi Mole clipping works. This can have a lot of potential for timesave for the TAS, but we're not sure how it exactly works. What are the conditions of it occuring? From your videos I was only able to figure out that you need to hammer Luigi in a spot where the Z is different than 0 and that is close enough to the edge of the ledge.
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Link to videoEs war einmal ein kleines Mädchen, das war so furchtbar arm!
Es hatte nur ein Stückchen Brot und alte Kleider an.
Und die Sterne fielen vom Himmel. Als blanke Taler fielen sie herab!
Auch wer wenig hat kann etwas geben. Und wird reich sein für ein ganzes Leben!
Das Mädchen nahm sein Brot und gab es, einem alten Mann, der nichts besaß.
Es gab sogar sein letztes Hemd, damit ein Kind die Kälte vergaß.
Und die Sterne fielen vom Himmel. Als blanke Taler fielen sie herab!
Auch wer wenig hat kann etwas geben. Und wird reich sein für ein ganzes Leben!
Plötzlich hatte es ein neues Hemd an, aus allerfeinstem Stoff.
Darin sammelte es Sterntaler. Hob sie alle vom Boden auf.
Und die Sterne fielen vom Himmel. Als blanke Taler fielen sie herab!
Auch wer wenig hat kann etwas geben. Und wird reich sein für ein ganzes Leben!
Und wird reich sein für ein ganzes Leben.
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Ok, it looks my understanding of pause sound / no-nitro-sound trick is only partially correct.
The trick indeed can prolong speed if used at the correct frame timing.
As mentioned previously, the "no nitro-sound" will cause this trick to happen without the need to pause.
The previous best TAS time on 1A was 54.04 without pausing and without "no nitro-sound".
But now, using "no nitro-sound" after the last boost, I achieved 53.92!! (I didn't manage to save any time using pausing in the first three boosts.)
I made a new WIP recently of 1A-3A and now I'm redoing it to implement the "no nitro-sound" technique.
I will probably not use pausing because A) it takes away from the fast pace too much, and B) it makes optimizing the run infinitely more tedious.
The goal choice should be like this:
1) Fastest ingame course completion time
2) Fastest ingame course lap time
3) Fastest real time
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I found that when if you finish a level while underground, if you hold Left, the camera will fail to stop and the racer will take an extra round through the level. (Not useful)
I researched the pause trick. This is my understanding of it right now.
After a nitro boost, the speed will normally deaccelerate something like this:
1152 ⇢ 1136 ⇢ 1120 ⇢ 1104 ⇢ 1088 ⇢ 1072 ⇢ ...
Sometimes the game "skips" over a step for some reason, so it becomes:
1152 ⇢ 1120 ⇢ 1104 ⇢ 1088 ⇢ 1072 ⇢ ...
These "skips" happen every once in a while, not very often.
From my testing, pausing can prevent a "skip" that was imminent from happening, but it can also cause a new "skip" to happen that was not going to happen before. It seems really luck-based for RTA.
The same behavior happens when pressing or not pressing B when no nitros are left. I think the game's inner timing changes due to audio processing occuring vs. not occuring.
Some not so obvious knowledge stuff that I'd like to document here for now:
There are 4 different ways you can go off a ramp, that will allow for different altitudes:
A) Hold A
B) Hold A + Up
C) Hold A + Left (causes you to leave the ramp sooner)
D) Hold A + Left + Up
If you need a precise altitude and can't reach it with any of the inputs above, you can also let go off A for a bit to lose speed briefly, before taking the ramp. If that is not possible because you are boosting before the ramp, you could try doing that boost 1 frame later (or otherwise redo the section before altogether).
It is usually fastest, to boost into a downward ramp directly, instead of driving over it and falling down slowly.
When going over rocks, you can hold Left a bit longer in order to clear the rock fast. By inputting "Left, nothing, Right" at the right time, you can also land on top of the rock. You could boost on top of the rock or boost after clearing the rock.
Sometimes aerial nitro boosts will cover a slightly better distance, depending on timing. It is a good thing to test different timings.
Your first priority is to get in the right position.
You can use →↓, ← and ←↓, → inputs.
Then your next priority is to approach the wall you want to clip into (top or bottom).
Are you trying to use the trick in Bowser's Castle room 1? I may have tried that and failed, but I can't remember.