Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
@MUGG It appears like it was uploaded on another account.
I might not care who's channel uploaded the any% WIP, but it
stopped at Revenge of Meta Knight like the room where you fight
2 Bonkers.
It is my alt account.
The 2 Bonkers is as far as the WIP goes. After OGA and smns72 stopped, I went through the 2 Bonkers room myself but I couldn't find that version of the WIP right now.
I also sometimes stop at some parts, but for some reason when I
play a movie on V1.55 of Snes9x, create a save state, and reload,
it doesn't play the movie. Instead, you can rerecord it.
As you figured, that means you were in "Read+Write" mode.
There are 2 modes:
1) "Read-Only": Loading a state from the movie lets you continue watching from that point, with all progress after that point intact.
2) "Read+Write": Loading a state from the movie lets you continue recording from that point and anything after that point is discarded.
It is an important hotkey that you should remember. You will need to make it a habit to make back-ups of your movie file regularly as to not accidentally lose progress.
I also know that you have to reset when you defeat Dyna Blade, to save time.
However it's prohibited for the RTA community of this game for some reason.
Perhaps this is to keep all versions of the game comparable (WiiUVC, WiiVC, SNES). Perhaps resets are not equal between the systems.
Unless you are making a "human theory" TAS, I advise that you use resets in your works.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
I guess maybe the helper's hitbox?
Yes.
Since you will soon record the old any% WIP within 1-2 days,
like I said, the movie file will only work on (J) versions and
with Snes9x v1.43.
I'm recording the video for you to watch so you can see what's possible and to get an idea of the level of optimization. Everything in the Japanese version is pretty much also possible in the English version except for the "up+down, left+right" glitches.
Link to video
@MUGG Can you do Spring Breeze TAS still on Japanese but
with the Wing Ability.
No.
Kssu
The game engine is vastly different between Kirby Super Star (SNES) and Kirby Super Star Ultra (DS), so everything that applies for one version does not apply for the other version. I know the bug you are talking about, but it doesn't have anything to do with KSS.
Is the VC faster than original game in boss fights like during boss defeat the screen doesn't shift frames to prevent seizures?
The VC version did reduce flashing to prevent seizures. (see here).
But I don't know why that would make it any faster.
It's not like you have any good reason to be running this game on some VC emulator (Dolphin) than the original SNES.
And why do you reply late?
To annoy you because I keep track of how many questions you have asked me and for each question I will wait an additional day to reply.
Because it takes time to make a high quality video and your questions aren't particularly important ones. As I said, I will not play the assist role for you so you will have to wait until I or someone else finds the time to answer. You are free to join the TASvideos IRC chat. Perhaps that will help you get replies faster. We are pretty much family friendly, I can't remember anyone ever cussing in the chat, so ask your dad if he can have you join.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
Please don't double post.
Chutacoacko Playz wrote:
So you used it on a different emulator because of the frame counter and input display look, it doesn't look like anything
like Snes9x. It might look like the Bizhawk emulator.
Yes, it was recorded on Bizhawk (snes9x-core), which means it will work on stand-alone snes9x-rr versions as well.
Does it work on Wheelie helper and Burnin' Leo helper?
It doesn't work on Wheelie helper. Does it also work with Helper
Buggzy?
You will have to test.
Is somebody going to record the canceled any% WIP by OGA?
I can record it but it will take 1-2 days.
Also AntyMew's GCO jet the first half before the mix it's
slower than the old any% WIP.
Which part specifically? Videos and time stamps please.
I think because snes9x-rr 1.43 (OGA, smns72) is inaccurately slightly faster than the more console-accurate Bizhawk-bsnes core (AntyMew). Also AntyMew was going for a different strategy.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
@Chutacoacko Playz
I'm sorry I can't help with most things. Like I said, I will not be able to play the assist role for you. The Jet grab thing, it might only work if you are fully charged and near an enemy.
The hover clip does work but only with certain helpers. Ice will work, but Beam won't.
(My quick test on US version)
There is also this clip you can maybe do in some places:
I respect you don't want to share personal information, although your age is all I asked.
We have had young TASers around here before.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
@Chutacoacko Playz
I sent a private message your way.
Given that you said your dad downloads snes9x for you, I assumed you must be very young?
The very least I can do is to assist you with some information.
The Japanese TASers (OGA, smns72 and others) have worked on an any% TAS, done on the Japanese version, on snes9x-rr 1.43, in 2009 or so.
I worked on an 100% TAS myself (with help from OGA) in 2009-2010 or so, done on the Japanese version, on snes9x-rr 1.43.
Both of those WIPs have no video right now, so it's probably hard for a newcomer to even know these things exist. The movie files for these WIPs can be found in this older post: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=299051#299051
But remember that you need snes9x 1.43 and the Japanese version to play them back.
AntyMew worked on any% in 2015 with promising results but at some point stopped posting new progress. You can find his progress reports in older posts in this topic.
Maybe you can learn from watching these older WIPs.
Having the Japanese game (and Bizhawk) is definitely a good thing if it's possible at all for you. On the other hand, perhaps you can find enjoyment in just TASing for fun and working on your own little projects in this game. Everyone started somewhere after all. I started in Super Mario Land 2 in 2006 and had to learn everything bit by bit. It's good to have someone to assist you, but I fear I will not be able to play that role. Maybe you can join the TASvideos IRC chat to find help there?
http://tasvideos.org/LiveChat.html
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
For the first two things, I have nothing really to say. Swimming has odd mechanics. And the attack damage formula I never really understood, that's something Jdaster64 will have to explain.
In battle, enemy slots and Mario & Luigi slots are layed out the same.
Every slot has "Pow" and "Pow Multiplier".
I think Pow for enemies is not used, but I'm not sure. Most enemies seem to have 0 for Pow. It is used by Mario & Luigi though.
You can check these things with my lua, under >Actors while in battle.
Some info might be here but it's not particularly helpful I think.
http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/GBx/MarioAndLuigiSuperstarSaga.html#AttackAlgorithm
About the level-up bonus, it depends on the RNG.
If you have bad RNG, +3 might not show up at all even if it is possible to show up.
Each time you open (or re-open) the roulette, the RNG is rolled so you can check the possible values quickly.
In the English versions, if you keep boosting a specific stat, then higher values will eventually stop showing (so for Pow you'd get only +2 at best). In the JP there are some differences and getting higher values later in the game seems more lenient. There was a stat progression table by JDaster64 but it seems it's no longer online.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
I'm happy to see this run which came as a surprise to me.
You did a good job with it! Most parts are optimized well.
But I also found some parts that could be improved, so I'm listing them here.
Maybe these timesaves can be incorporated into this run?
In the first level, scroll the screen up by pressing Up+B at frame 1374-1377 and press Down at frame 1378 to save 1 frame.
In Macro 1, scroll the screen up before pipe death to save 3 frames.
In Pumpkin 3, I managed to save 2 frames by frame count 12265 by moving around the platform tighter, at frame 12220. That's without caring about the pixel trick so maybe it's actually a 3-4 frame time save. Same thing might apply for the other instance (at frame 12285).
In Turtle 2, at frame 35845, it's possible to get in the goal from the left side to finish faster by at least 17 frames.
In Space 1, this strat has a huge potential to save some seconds.
After Wario phase 1, it is possible to preserve speed by hopping to the right to save 17 frames. Same thing does not work in phase 2.
I'm testing 2 more ideas at the moment:
Edit:
1) Getting Carrot in Macro-Boss, beat rat as Rabbit Mario, proceed as normal but do faster leaf level. This assumes you jump from the 2 platforms straight up to the wooden log, and that you use pixel trick to catch up to one of the flies for a faster final jump up to the goal; get Fire in Tree-Boss at the pipe section. Only saves 3 frames lol. Not being able to reduce lag (since you don't have fire) might ruin it. But my leaf level test might be improvable further.
2) Take damage in Wario phase 1, go for quicker kill in Wario phase 2 (as small mario). I don't know if this would be better than not taking damage. Needs more testing.
I think the music bug is nice, but it does not belong in the TAS.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
About Cackletta, the old TAS waits for a split second before clearing the last Bowletta text. You can see it right here.
So waiting should work.
I'm not sure if this is the preferred way to route mushrooms but what I'm doing is, I try to optimize my movement on getting mushrooms and compare it to not getting any mushrooms, to see how much time I lose. I'm not sure yet how I'd optimize Stache/Hige stat and money and stuff.
I call this a "detour". Let me tell you, the planning I did before I started my WIP was pretty damn laborious!
Your best approach is to go through all the key points. Go through all enemy battles and boss battles and shopping instances in the correct order, test all possibilities for leveling up stats and see how it affects future key points (=battles and shopping).
Just a rough example to visualize the idea (not accurate in practice at all!):
Stardust Goomba fight 1
Stardust Goomba fight 2
Stardust Goomba fight 3
Level up: Possibility 1 -> Level up Pow
Level up: Possibility 2 -> Level up Stache
...
Queen Bean
Level up: Possibility 1 -> Level up Pow
Level up: Possibility 2 -> Level up Stache
Bean Town Item Shop
Possibility 1 -> Buy Pea Badge and equip on Mario
Possibility 2 -> Buy Pea Badges for both brothers
Possibility 3 -> Don't visit shop
...
Generally you will want to aim for lowest amount of rounds in battles (especially in Popple&Rookie, where Rookie starts a dialogue with an extra attack if you don't kill him fast enough, and in Popple&Birdo where Popple will hide in eggs if you don't finish the fight fast enough).
After you found the minimum Pow required to do your fights with the least amount of rounds, you use the extra level ups to boost Stache. You check how many mushrooms you can afford in Fungitown. Then you see how many more you need to get a good Popple&Birdo, Bowletta and Cackletta fight. Then you plan to get that amount of mushrooms throughout the game, starting with the ones that have the fastest detour time. This is just the general idea. There are a lot of aspects to consider.
I have my Glitched% plan written down (trimmed version) but for Glitchless% you will need to come up with your own decisions, especially after the Popple&Birdo (Chucklehuck Woods) key point which is where the two runs seperate.
I recommend you use my luascript for testing/planning, as it offers many useful capabilities such as being able to edit stats, to warp to rooms and to start boss battles instantly. You can quickly go through all the key points in the game, without having to play through.
I will try to assist you as best as I can if you have any questions.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
I'm really glad you still exist!
Fencypo wrote:
Chopper Bros.
26 hits is correct.
Manipulating Cackletta
It's like manipulating any other enemy or boss. Their action is determined by the RNG, and RNG can be changed before the battle starts.
Additionally, it also depends on frame timing (might not be the case for all battles). So the same RNG will mean something different for when you enter a battle at a different time.
Once in the battle, the RNG will stand still and change depending on your action.
Some actions will advance it further than others, so you have some limited possibilities to manipulate the Cackletta fight while you're in it.
Trial and error has helped me tons in this game.
Your WIP is in Stardust? You will want to manipulate the best mushroom drops possible from the fights.
I think for my WIP it's 2 fights with a "3 mush" drop each, and 1 fight with a "2 mush" drop, or something like that. Since you are doing a different category, your planning may differ. I strongly advise that you plan mushroom and mush power stuff out in advance, through the entire game, before going further, if you haven't already.
Manipulating Koopa Cruiser goomba
I'm not sure what exactly is the problem, but as said, enemy pattern depends on the RNG (and possibly on frame timing). You can manipulate RNG by changing camera movement, by taking different paths across the rooms and jumping, so NPCs - that cause RNG to roll - become active and inactive at different times.
I guess goomba attacking Luigi should be faster? It should work if the RNG is good. But RNG manipulation possibilities are very limited until that point, I think.
Questions about stuff being allowed or banned in glitchless
If I were in your shoes, I'd just use the RTA rules. Those state, the following is banned:
Action Command Glitch
Barrel Storage
Fire Dash Ledge Glitch
Fountain Glitch
Jump Course Skips
Ledge Clipping
And so everything not on this list is automatically allowed. This makes everything easy to verify and justify.
The biggest one, should I mash the A button fast enough in Teehee Valley to avoid getting Peach getting caught? The reason I'm thinking of letting Peach get caught is because when you revisit the room where she's supposed to get caught the first time later, the room is forever going to be in a glitchy state. However, since we don't ever revisit that room a second time, I hesitate a lot with this.
It's hard to conclude with a ruling on this, since something like "Jump Course Skip" is banned as well, after all.
You need to press A every 3rd frame while holding left, to do this on console.
It is a very light bug. A bug on the basis that it was not intended by the developers, but I would classify it more as an "exploit" than a glitch, since you are using the game mechanics in your favor. For the same reason, I would even go for the common "collect mushrooms and abuse the heck out of Chopper Bros" approach.
Are you going for a "human theory TAS" or are you going for a serious "stick to the rules and squeeze everything possible out of the game while following the rules" project?
For the Peach thing, avoid restrictions like "you are not allowed to mash A more than x times in a second". It makes your run arbitrary and hard to justify. You could mash A as fast as possible but still let Peach go offscreen.
I would personally allow the Peach capture skip, but would also respect it if it was banned on the basis that Jump Course skip - which is similar in terms of time save and leaving things in a glitchy state - is also banned.
0 DEF glitch, infinite red pepper
Do the glitchless RTAs not use those things? What do Murmilio and Sjorec have to say about this?
It's easy to get these types of bugs. Reminds me of Pokemon "fast text speed" by talking to the bicycle shop owner or using pokedoll in the ghost tower, etc.
These things have been allowed in the Pokemon community because they aren't "hard glitches" and they happen in common play easily.
I'd lean towards allowing it.
It's the really big glitches that allow sequence breaking, that you want to avoid.
Good luck
Let me know when you come up with conclusions on glitchless rulings. Maybe we are going to need to update the RTA rules to state whether Peach capture skip is allowed or banned.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
I don't know any other TAS either, that uses input to go to the title screen post-ending (aside from Bubble Ghost, that is). It would be my prefered ending point, but I'm also fine with it ending on the highscore list.
I'm going to be somewhat busy, so feel free to make the edit yourself. Or wait few more days so I do it.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
feos wrote:
Shouldn't this movie end on the score display, showing the player name and actual score, instead of skipping to the title screen again? Sounds more appropriate to me.
This game has multiple possible ending points:
- The "The End" screen
- the highscore list
- the title screen
I always perceived that it should be up to the runner to make a choice for a good ending point to their run. Same thing applies for goal choices, e.g. I could have let Mario die a few times to cut down on time spent in the post-game bonus game, but that would be lame and confusing.
That being said, the title screen actually does fade into the highscore list every few seconds, if I recall correctly. There is music playing that the viewer otherwise can't listen to. It rounds up the run nicely and the previous runs did the same, so that's why I think it should be that way.
Bubble Ghost also got granted the title screen as a legitimate ending point.
I think 8~10 more seconds in the encode doesn't hurt, but if you see it differently, let me know and I will work on a version that has a faster ending point.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
I'm investigating this game more and putting my notes here:
Advancing the game:
The room with the hole to the key will be determined BEFORE the 10,000 points message. Probably the moment you enter a room. If you enter another room, the hole will be in a different room.
The room can be any other room than the one you are in.
The hole will ALWAYS have the key in it, it is not random
The room with the keyhole will be determined when the message comes up after going into the hole with the key.
In my testing, the room was next to a corner room again.
The corner room with the hole in it, in my testing on v1.0 the game crashed upon entering the corner room. This was not possible to fix. Perhaps this was the reason a v1.2 exists.
Cheese degradation:
For each 20 steps, you lose 1 cheese.
Each time you travel through a tunnel, you lose 1 cheese.
After traveling through a tunnel, your steps are reset.
Items lying on the floor:
Cheese gives 50 points + 3 cheese
Bomb gives 60 points + 2 bombs
Can gives 50 points
Holes:
Either you find or you drop something. The outcome is easily influenced by timing/RNG.
You can find:
NEWSPAPERS - nothing happens
AN OLD SHOE - nothing happens
ROTTEN EGGS - nothing happens
NOTHING - nothing happens
DUST BALLS - nothing happens
EMPTY BOXES - nothing happens
BROKEN GLASS - nothing happens
AN OLD BOOK - nothing happens
TERMITES - nothing happens
SPIDER WEBS - nothing happens
3-6 Cheeses
4-6 Cans (+ 50 points per Can)
2-3 bombs
You can drop:
4-12 Cheeses
It seems if you have less than 60(?) Cheeses, you can only drop a maximum of 6 Cheeses, otherwise 12.
3-6 Cans (-50 points per Can)
2-12 Bombs
It seems if you have less than 60(?) Bombs, you can only drop a maximum of 6 Bombs, otherwise 12.
It is possible to have Cheese spawn in such a way, that another cat is trapped and another Cheese spawns.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
No, I don't know anyone. Getting a card from ebay should be fairly easy though. But I don't think anything will arise from more looking into it. The now "more accurate" (?) Gambatte is much closer to the test results on the real console, with a frozen screen, so I think that's all there is to it.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
I wish I knew how to make myself independent from my parents.
My parents always find ways to make me feel worthless and suicidal. They know what buttons to press to abuse me emotionally...
I also wish some place would give me a job next year. I'm only receiving rejections. At this point, it looks like I might stay at home the whole next year, feeling regret, feeling sorry.
The latter part I have little control over. If nobody wants to give me a place to work, then I can't god damn work.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player
(2315)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany
I wanted to record a TAS, starting from SaveRAM, to play through Super Mario Ball's Time Attack mode (which becomes unlocked after collecting 2 star keys and can be selected via the title screen).
While recording the TAS, saving and loading a state from before the game's intro cutscene will cause the Time Attack to be gone. The game will behave as if nothing has been unlocked.
https://github.com/TASVideos/BizHawk/issues/1593
(My quick test on US version)
There is also this clip you can maybe do in some places:
I respect you don't want to share personal information, although your age is all I asked.
We have had young TASers around here before.