Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
To be fair, the save glitch is just as possible in Gold as it is in Crystal. I explicitly asked on the previous page back. And as someone who doesn't care a ton about pokemon, I don't feel that there's that much of a difference between versions for gen 2. I feel it's enough to warrant separate branches when glitches are avoided sure. But here I dunno. Is coin case exclusive to G/S? Or does it work in Crystal as well?
EDIT: It was pointed out to me that CCG is in fact G/S exclusive.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
fsvgm777 wrote:
But seriously, Spike, stop talking about Buck Bumble, please.
Wording this.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
So I wanted to quote the exact clause in the rules where it's acceptable to do one loop if difficulty increases but content otherwise remains the same and found it was a bit more badly worded than I remembered:
Movie Rules wrote:
The game consists of multiple rounds with new content appearing, and difficulty increases until it resets (overflows). For this the game must reach a point where no new content is left to complete.
I got initially confused by this, thinking it meant the opposite. However, I got confirmation that it was supposed to mean that if no new content (ie levels) appears beyond a certain point, but difficulty continues to increase, it is acceptable to stop when the new content stops appearing. I also recall hearing that generally a run that stops when difficulty stops increasing would be able to obsolete 1 content loop run, but I'm not exactly seeing that clearly defined in the section.
That section of the rules probably should be rewritten to be more clear.
EDIT: Looks the explanation I was given wasn't even entirely accurate. This needs some looking into.
EDIT2: It seems the current rule is that it is acceptable to stop when no new content IF there is an undefined difficulty increase. It sounds to me that you're not allowed to stop there if there is a defined difficulty cap.
I'm not sure I like this.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Decided to take a look at this game after Jules brought up that there was an improvement WIP that was never finished. So far I've only worked on the first screen of the game but I managed to save 1 frame over Cardboard's last uploaded wip: User movie #64983148124615011
I think I'll make this my new project for a while.
EDIT: Finished the first bank stage 5 frames ahead of Cardboard's old WIP disregarding emulation differences:
User movie #65007946151700802
(video removed)
EDIT2: realized I miscounted and saved a frame on the last screen when I didn't. Later actually saved 1 frame there so we all good now.
EDIT3: Stage 2:
(video removed)
EDIT4: Finally confirmed the time save, 41 frames on this stage vs the wip.
EDIT5: Finished the first boss: User movie #65162325048199356Link to video
Time save thus far: https://i.imgur.com/4CxKTiD.png
I lost one frame in 3-2 because the screen clearing attack animation depends on RNG and there doesn't appear to be any way to manipulate it aside from waiting.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
This is getting a bit off topic.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Don't even have to write up much of a submission text. "This is what's different. OK bye!"
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Samsara wrote:
Words. Good ones.
I agree with basically everything said here.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Baddap1 wrote:
Memory wrote:
EDIT: Just double checked, getting a game over + hitting continue starts you at the beginning of the game with all previously obtained items. Exactly the same as this bad ending.
For reference, this exact same thing happen if you complete the game with 8 Keys (Good Ending), it's not like this game tells you exactly that ''you didn't complete the entire game, play it again'' because this is a thing even for the original game (pressing Start at the ending you come back to the title screen).
That's not true though. Hitting continue from the good ending grants you invincibility. I checked.
EDIT: You also lose all your abilities after good ending if you hit continue.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
I couldn't even watch the whole thing without skipping around so No Vote on entertainment.
From a quick glance, while most the game is on rails, it does appear at least some segments can be sped up and have some optimization to them, which should be enough for the game to be acceptable in my opinion.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
So I finally watched the TAS for myself. Now I haven't done an in-depth comparison like Samsara, but at no point did I feel that it was that different from what I had seen before in S3K. If the differences exist, they're subtle, which is very bad for a game with nearly 10 published branches.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Samsara wrote:
By that logic, you're saying this run is even less acceptable, since the already unacceptable IGAvania "bad endings" count moreso as actual endings (i.e, unlocking postgame features) than this run's "bad ending", which... Again, is really no different than the game's usual game over screen, just packaged differently.
This is precisely why I'm leaning against accepting this.
Having a cool glitch is one thing but honestly I don't think that should be enough for having a branch. One could easily design a goal for almost any game in order to showcase a unique glitch. Having said goal be acceptable I feel should not just be based on that. What if some other category gets the glitch? It's not very forward thinking.
EDIT: Just double checked, getting a game over + hitting continue starts you at the beginning of the game with all previously obtained items. Exactly the same as this bad ending.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
I mean we can accept one to stars now and just make a more permanent decision later.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Crusader of Centy is the good stuff.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
[1:55 PM] Samsara: fish-slapping has been a staple of IRC for... heck, decades?
[1:55 PM] Samsara: heckades?
[1:56 PM] Colin (EZGames69): Im calling it that from now on
[2:01 PM] feos: heckadecimal
[2:02 PM] Samsara: hecka decimal is just incredibly decimal, like extremely so
[2:02 PM] Samsara: like you have never been more devoted to base-10 in your life
[2:03 PM] Samsara: your name is practically Dewey Decimal
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Ah ok!
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Does this rely on uninitialized RAM similar to previous publications? I remember hearing that this branch actually relies on uninitialized RAM that might not be possible on a factory condition cartridge and that the only way to achieve this RAM normally would be to set the values using glitches in a separate playthrough.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Keep in mind, I'm not exactly sure the "No Save Corruption" movie we have now ([3901] GBC Pokémon: Yellow Version "game end glitch" by TiKevin83 in 09:47.92) was the right call to make either. When I first judged that run I was more focused on the Blue/Yellow comparison but I realized later after Super Mario Bros. 3 that I looked past the ACE elements too quickly.
EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I realize the issue with basing a branch's ruleset solely on lack of save corruption. Theoretically, a run that uses a different type of glitch could be faster than both Coin Case and Save Glitch, obsoleting both yet following the same rules. This branch does not seem categorically different from other GeG type runs.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
...For some reason I was expecting the game to literally be a combination of bowling and golf like you somehow throw the bowling ball into a golf hole.
I was disappointed to find out that wasn't the case.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Is the save glitch possible on gold/silver?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
someone1 wrote:
Grinding is really not that big of a deal in this game (it's not like for example dragon quest or phantasy star where grinding is basically required). Enemy stats are low enough that even base Leaf should survive most of the game.
You would just need to wait for promotions a few chapters later on normal, and would need 2-4 extra turns to complete a few maps. And a bit of extra RNG manipulation would be needed for more bonus moves. The difference in final time would probably be around 10-15 minutes.
That's... not a lot. Any evidence for this?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Samsara wrote:
Leif: The lord of the game, he must reach the end of every map to Seize/Escape. Since you can't really warp him in Escape Maps (or else you would lose the warper and the Warp Staff), it is important for him to get a high mobility through his 3% MOV growth.
Reread the submission text and caught this after making my post. Can this be elaborated on a bit more? Is it specifically "high-movement Leif makes these maps faster because Leif gets to the end faster", or is it something more along the lines of "high-movement Leif is the only way to survive in these maps"?
I would also like to know this. Note that "only way to survive in these maps" includes alternative strategies such as bringing along units you might not otherwise need to etc that might require setup from previous maps.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Now, I don't think this sort of code should be remotely allowed for Vault. Only codes that activate hardest difficulty or codes that give access to otherwise inaccessible level sets should be allowed there.
Now the link you gave me is interesting because it does really give further evidence that Elite Mode as a type of game mode that is locked behind a code rather than a simple modifier.
Now obviously this code does make the game easier and I had no intentions on dodging the possibility that a normal mode run would be more interesting or whatever. Exploring that was essentially my next plan of action after ascertaining what exactly was allowed within the rules for cheats for a Moons branch. A run without cheats would pretty much always be acceptable.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1524)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Memory wrote:
EDIT: Fortranm wrote:
From what I see in the video I posted earlier, getting a good ending makes you invulnerable when you hit continue afterward.
Is this just from getting a good ending or is there anything else?
Double checked by replaying HappyLee's run and it appears that getting true ending is all that is needed for invulnerability upon "Continue"... but it also appears you no longer have space jump. This seems further evidence to me that the bad ending is a sort of fail state.
EDIT2: So updated summary of bad ending vs good:
Bad ending:
No true final boss
Gets ???'s above Mario's head and asked where the princess is
No completion time nor completion percentage
After returning to title screen, hitting continue you seem to have all your previous items and progress.
Good Ending:
True final boss
Rescues princess and gets a "Thanks for playing"
Completion time and completion percentage are displayed
After returning to title screen, hitting continue you seem to lose all your items but have invincibility.
This seems to be a "You're not done yet keep playing" but I would like some additional opinions.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
