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Traditionally if one uses somebody else's inputs for part of the run, coauthorship is granted.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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creaothceann wrote:
So, all games running vsynced at 60fps then?
That is not what was said at all.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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TiKevin83 wrote:
I've taken Gifvex's first 2 fixes into account and have an update to this submission with a completion time of 10:06. Note that this is faster than Blue NSC now. If anything that should demonstrate how incomparable the two routes are :)
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/50872871357029851
Updated. I don't see how this proves the two routes are incomparable though. Not saying that Red/Blue and Yellow must obsolete each other in this case but your logic here doesn't add up. Plenty of times when routes within the same version of the same game become faster or slower than each other based on new discoveries and we don't make separate branches for such route differences.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Wow this category is surprisingly entertaining. Yes vote. I think the category is entertaining and unique enough to be published and the optimization seems good enough, there can't be anything left that could prevent accept...
Really_Tall wrote:
the credits sequence is not fully completed. Beating the game as Yoshi, which is necessary to complete this challenge, causes you to die near the end of the credits.
...I should have known this looked too easy.
EDIT: Question relating to that: What are the main obstacles preventing clearing the game as Mario?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
In my opinion it's something that deserves a separate publication, also because it's mainly besed on a glitch that is not available in Red/Blue.
Which glitch is this?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Do you plan on making your own temporary encode?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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jlun2 wrote:
Is there an explanation again for each category so far? Like what Fortranm said I'm getting rather confused of what the runs exactly do differently outside reaching credits in different ways.
That is more or less my impression of the main difference between the two.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Do others feel this submission is uniquely entertaining compared to Red/Blue?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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ais523 wrote:
I think it's reasonable to treat a microphone like a controller; any sound that the microphone is capable of picking up seems like valid input to me (as a user sitting at the console could input it via making the right sounds). In fact, it's considerably more legitimate than things like left+right (which couldn't be input without damage to the console).
This is different from, say, expansion port input, as creating your own expansion cards is not part of normal play and not an intended input method.
The problem isn't legitimacy but reproducibility.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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So feos and I talked a bit and we agreed that it would be best to research what is required to pass the mic segments in the game. We would like to see if there is a way to make a minimalist audio file that does the bare minimum and still is able to beat the game. If any people would like to look into it, it would be appreciated.
EDIT: I'll be setting this to delayed in the meantime.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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The audio file this TAS uses is copyright free (it's the sound of someone blowing) but it does not seem to be easily reproducible. Should we decide to use similar rules to that of disc images, this TAS might or might not sync with a handcrafted file. It would also seem to me to be a little cruel to force the TASer to redo this movie if a generic file does not sync given the TAS's length.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Interesting goal choice! Voted yes!
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Link to video
I went back and changed 1-2 so I grabbed the smiley face so I could have a shorter delay when "Round 2 Begin" starts to display. Since the smiley face restored a half a heart for no additional time cost, I changed my 1-4 strategy to take more damage since it was guaranteed to be healed.
130 frames saved so far over the published TAS.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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This discussion arguably goes beyond the scope of this thread. If you would like to continue it, I recommend we do so elsewhere.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Doomsday31415 wrote:
EZGames69 wrote:
Unless a game end glitch or ace discovered, there should be no real reason to skip all of the game content.
And this is the problem I have with a rule that disallows cheats. A major glitch that skips most of the game is acceptable and even encouraged, but an ingame code is not?
This is not a Game Genie modifying the game to do whatever it wants. This is something the developers left in, either intentionally or in some cases on accident.
A game end glitch requires much more creativity and effort as opposed to a built in cheat.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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itsPersonnal wrote:
Fair enough, Mothrayas. Shall we remove this submission? Or close this thread? Seems we've reached a consensus.
You may cancel if you like by going to the submission page clicking edit in the sidebar and setting the submission status to canceled. Otherwise we can wait until I perform my judgment.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Warp wrote:
YaLTeR wrote:
I don't know of any games with glitches that require very low FPS for the whole duration of the run, but I am familiar with a number of games that require very low FPS just for the duration of exploiting a glitch, which is usually only a couple of frames long and doesn't pose much watchability issue.
Getting the low framerate just on the part where the glitching needs to happen, if the game itself does not support capping the framerate to something so low, would require external means of lowering the framerate. If we are talking about an emulated environment (as is most usually the case with TASes), it would require for the runner to manually lower the emulated speed of the emulated hardware for the duration of that glitch.
I doubt that would be acceptable in any way, not under current rules nor probably ever, because it goes against the spirit of TASing (runs shouldn't abuse the emulator itself to make the game glitch. And how would you even theoretically achieve this in the original hardware, without some sort of external software or something?)
The only way I could theoretically envision this happening is if, rules permitting, the emulator is set to emulate a really slow and old computer, which runes the game like molasses (and this slow running speed is what allows that glitch).
Some games have methods of adjusting framerate in the middle of the game.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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For Vault we expressly want to not include things that are borderline like cheat codes. It cannot be accepted to Vault as a result.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Niamek wrote:
I agree with this. If it's entertaining. Then it should be published. No matter what.
I also agree with arandomgametaser's point of view that cheats shouldn't be seen as an absolute no to publication. If the cheats made the movie very entertaining, it should be published.
However, in this case, I felt it skipped too much of the game for it to be published. It's a too short movie. I'd be more inclined to like the movie with cheats if it featured more of the game (like 100%) and that it was longer.
If you properly read the section in the rules, it states that the rules on codes are not strict and exceptions may be granted.
I will go into more detail into the nature of the rule and why it exists, but I can summarize the point of the rule for now. The point of the rule is to discourage things that may trivialize the amount of work that needs to be put into a TAS. This is also why we discourage easy modes except when they are more entertaining.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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arandomgameTASer wrote:
http://tasvideos.org/802M.html The Biker Mice From Mars TAS, as I've already stated, uses an in-game code that 'allows me to start at the last (sixth) round of at the Championship mode with Vinnie, at difficulty level 'Super Hard'. It also gives me fully upgraded 'Engine'-parts and 'Shot'-parts.'
That TAS should have never been accepted imo. We may make some mistakes in the past that lead to movies being published that shouldn't have. These movies do not qualify as precedents.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Doomsday31415 wrote:
Memory wrote:
feos wrote:
This sounds like changing gameplay speed should be banned from Vault.
I'd rather ban it from Moons as well. It's an artificial way of creating "entertainment" and may often result in sound effects going off at the wrong times etc.
Artificial or not, if it makes it more entertaining, why not allow it?
If people don't like it in certain cases, then it obviously will fail the "more entertaining" threshold.
My reasoning for this is simple: It lowers the barrier of entry to Moons from "What features interesting gameplay" to "What games am I able to increase the gameplay speed in".
As Archanfel said, YouTube features the ability to increase speed of a video. This is no different from that.
I don't want to see submissions that raise the framerate of their game just to avoid Vault by making it "more entertaining". I'd much rather see games run at their intended speeds.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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feos wrote:
This sounds like changing gameplay speed should be banned from Vault.
I'd rather ban it from Moons as well. It's an artificial way of creating "entertainment" and may often result in sound effects going off at the wrong times etc.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Is it really "More entertaining" if it's done at 1 billion FPS and the whole TAS is over in less than a second?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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feos wrote:
Would anyone argue that when gameplay speeds up as a whole as you disable vsync, that must also be allowed? This was already been disallowed for JPC-RR movies as mentioned in the OP.
That doesn't seem to me to be something that we should allow. If the gameplay as a whole speeds up, then it should in theory be the same TAS just sped up.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
