[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
So the extra exits are forbidden because of those 2 forbidden techniques? We don't want to list the rules in the labels, only critical differences and unique goals. If there's a cherry-picked set of tricks that are forbidden to make it more entertaining, we could also list them in the movie description (if we haven't already). I'd need to know if those extra exits are sacrificed for speed or for entertainment.
They're not techniques, Yoshi is like a persistent power up that persists between levels, but does not require Mario to be big in order to use (unlike say Cape or Fire Flower). Additionally the Switch Palaces are levels that when completed, permanently place additional blocks in various levels that can be used as platforms to make certain levels easier. The Switch Palaces count towards the amount of exits, so by banning their usage, you cannot get their exits. The idea behind the movie is to have Mario and the levels be in a minimalist state, but reach as many exits as possible.
EDIT: Note that temporary power ups like the starman ARE allowed however.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Alyosha wrote:
Also I started working on MBC7 for Kirby tilt 'n tumble TASing, but it's not done yet.
I am unreasonably excited about this.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
DrD2k9 wrote:
This might be a simple question. But, can't we use the RTA community's branch descriptions where appropriate?
Publisher Guidelines wrote:
Descriptions for branch names which are already well known and in popular use in gaming communities should only be used if they accurately depict the focus and achievements of the run, fit in with the same branch name as used elsewhere on the site, and properly differentiate a particular run from other runs that exist or may appear for a said game.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
That submission never synced for anyone in the first place, not even the author
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
The Dragster saga will never end.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Took a quick look at the game and it doesn't appear to have the same momentum maintenance tricks the other Magical Quest games and the Illusion games had, which is unfortunate.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
DrD2k9 wrote:
Memory wrote:
ruadath wrote:
Even I voted Meh on my own submission here.
At least you're honest...?
There's nothing wrong with finding your own work unentertaining.
Regardless of how much a TASer may try to inject entertainment through the TASing process, some games simply don't offer much in terms of entertainment value.
Some of us also feel that the archival of fastest-known runs regardless of entertainment value is a worthwhile endeavor and just as important as archival of entertaining runs.
It's more just straight up saying you think your own work is boring but eh this is getting off topic.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
ruadath wrote:
the game is still pretty boring, and I don't think that the ~10 seconds of time save is going to change anyone's vote from Meh to Yes.
Even I voted Meh on my own submission here.
At least you're honest...?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Very much yes vote! Fast paced movement, interesting tricks, and fun playarounds. Shame that Sunshine has so many cutscenes at the start but still a very fun TAS.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
This should be close to optimal:
Link to videoUser movie #45934655533608134
EDIT: Talked to the RTA community a little bit and there's some things I could probably improve on.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Looking into this game, it seems really laggy. There's some despawns and stuff that are possible.
Test wip through the first screen
Haven't completely explored all my options yet, but I'm not sure if I'm using the right GB BIOS file. I think I am, I just wasn't used to the original GameBoy bootup screen.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Branchless is the best idea.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
sugarfoot wrote:
Memory wrote:
You should probably cancel your previous submission
Why? (serious question - I thought it was good to keep old iterations available on site, even if they just end up in Vault)
They have to get accepted in the first place to end up in vault. Your old submission was never judged and since it does not beat all known records at least as of this submission, can never end up in vault.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
You should probably cancel your previous submission
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
This TAS deliberately didn't use the camera freeze glitch, and that RTA run did. The fastest no camera freeze real time run is 22:16.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
FractalFusion wrote:
Memory wrote:
What do you define as 100% in Super Mario Land even?
I actually thought of it some time last week. Maybe get everything there is to get in this game? (coins, extra lives, mushrooms, flowers, stars)
I assume deaths would have to be ruled out; otherwise you'd obviously get infinite loops.
Apparently he did none of those in this TAS and it's actually small only.
I have no idea.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
What do you define as 100% in Super Mario Land even?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
TiKevin83 wrote:
I disagree with the assumption of difficulty in defining glitch. The "glitchless" category used in the RTA community is based on a very straightforward definition of "no arbitrary code execution." On the other hand, trying to follow the intended sequence of the game would also necessitate beating Erika before Koga before Sabrina before Blaine, which has never been suggested as a requirement for glitchless Pokemon runs before by anyone, classic or no classic.
Would make for a potentially good april fools joke however.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Memory wrote:
Again, I would describe this as a sequence break rather than a glitch. I'll give you an example in another genre. If a developer intends you to not be able to make it across a gap, but you can still do it with a tight jump, is that a glitch? I wouldn't think so.
But what if instead of a gap the developer decided to put a wall, and you could go beyond this wall by using some frame-perfect or subpixel-perfect movement? The obstacle is different and the way to bypass it is different, but the purpose of the obstacle and the result of the action performed by the player would be the same, but would you also consider this as not being a glitch?
Not specific enough tbh. In some situations it might be a glitch and other situations it might not. Depends on the exact kind of movement required to pass through.
I see that drawing the line between "glitch" and "non-glitch" is impossible; but on the other hand we can instead draw an absolute line between "intended sequence" and "unintended sequence", and that's why I insist that we should use this yardstick instead. Then we can name the branch whatever is more appropriate, glitchless or not.
Can you really draw an absolute line through intended sequence vs unintended sequence? For plenty of games, the intended sequence itself is unclear. Sure, this particular instance seems pretty clear but there are many games where it is not, and developer intent is largely ignored anyways.
EDIT: Imo your proposal would require a massive change to a bunch of movie classifications and to the rules as we know them.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Well, the fact itself that something intended to happen did not happen, can in itself be described as a glitch. In this case, the player is supposed to go in a certain place and clear some fights in order to obtain the intended item required for progressing beyond Marowak's ghost.
Again, I would describe this as a sequence break rather than a glitch. I'll give you an example in another genre. If a developer intends you to not be able to make it across a gap, but you can still do it with a tight jump, is that a glitch? I wouldn't think so.
The purpose of a branch that forgoe major skips is to show off more game content, or different gameplay content, compared to other branches. Skipping part of the intended events sequence simply defeates such purpose.
This is not a problem in any other "forgoes major skip glitch" branches. Heck, plenty of these allow different sequence breaks too and even allow glitches. To give a Pokemon example, both Pearl Glitchless and No Save/Reset have the "foregoes major skip glitch" tag attached to it. One allows glitches and the other doesn't. There is no "Foregoes Major Skips" tag however.
You can't encounter Marowak's ghost again after having used either Silph Scope or Poké Doll on it. The player necessarily have to decide which method to use in order to advance.
The fight doesn't immediately end after using the Silph Scope. The Silph Scope allows you to attack the Marowak, but you could always throw a Pokedoll at that point instead.
We really need to avoid branches that are too much similar to each other, and thus we can't publish both Glitchless and Glitchless Classic. And the RTA ruleset of the latter branch looks much more appropriate in my opinion, because it's more inclusive of game content.
We have the co-op diploma Red/Blue branch that maximizes game content (including going through the Rocket Hideout), this should not be an issue.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
I don't see what intended methods of game progression has to do with whether or not something is a glitch. Here, the game expects you to use silph scope to be able to fight the Marowak. However, it just so happens that a poke doll at any time would end the fight and allow you to proceed. The fact that this is a sequence break does not seem relevant to the branch goal. Would using a pokedoll on Marowak after using silph scope be allowed? According to the glitchless classic rules it would not be allowed, but it has nothing to do with event sequence in that case, which was your primary argument. It is plenty possible to break event sequence in games without glitches, like has been done here. All that happens in this scenario is that you used a pokedoll on a wild pokemon and it counted as winning the fight. If you would prefer a no glitches, no sequence breaks branch, I guess that would be fine, but I don't really see how this is a glitch.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1525)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1763
Location: Dumpster
Sounds good to me. Might want to have a few test participants try it though before implementing, if possible.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
