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hmm, no new tricks
I have no idea, if mitjitsu and co finally started the OoT any% TAS, but I'm sure they will do so soon, if they haven't done that yet.
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wow, nice to see finally a new person TASing this game. I'm pretty much the last one ;)
harri is totally right. here's how to do it frame perfectly, though:
- Z target something (usually bombchu while hovering). search for the right frame to press Z after pulling out the bombchu
- hold 6 frame either a bit to the right or left
- let go off the control stick for 6 frames
- hold the new direction for 3 frames
if you have any question, just PM me or go to the zelda irc. you can find the irc on zeldaspeedruns.com
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DarkKobold wrote:
Perhaps if there was any believe your mystical, wonderful perfect movie was going to happen before the year 2020, this movie would have been rejected. Really, if there is anyone you should 'blame' for this movie being on the site, its you.
Boo-friggin-hoo.
I really don't want to take part at this ultra pointless discussion, but I have to say something about this.
"mystical wonderful perfect movie"
there was already a WIP, that showed, how optimized an OoT run can get, so it's not mystical.
the thing is, that this old WIP was made under the condition, that mupen plus would come out soon, which was supposed to allow save warps. because of that, they didn't take any damage before getting adult, so there was no way to get out of the Temple of Time again without jumping into the void 6 times.
because of this they had to re-do completely.
As Swordless major project was always Majora's Mask he waited for Slowking and me to stop discovering new tricks and strategies and planning the new route until july and started that TAS again. sadly he gave up in august and told me to go on with it.
now the major project was OoT again, but as no one of bloobiebla, Mitjitsu and Swordless had enough free time to work on it together until this year's May, they decided to finally do this project then.
Mitjitsu actually already started to discuss routes and stuff like this with the zelda irc before this run was submitted, which proves that they'll start working on it soon.
They are planning to finish the TAS until the end of this summer
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you are sure, that this will save time at all for the any% run?
of course it'll be change the all temples route completely, but any%?
in all temples we get chus from well now and go to fortress as adult. we also skip requiem together with magic bean completely, so this trick finally gets really useful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjbh9Upbc2s
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AngerFist wrote:
To be honest, I think that pause trick looks really ugly and is a big turn-off.
different people different opinions
this quick pausing looks awesome to me and the followed ultra quick BLJ makes the thing even better then ;)
another good example is sidehopping in OoT and MM. many people hate it, someone even wanted it to be cut out of the final encode of the OoT TAS, but to me those perfect movements sound like music in my ears
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interesting way to get to the water temple in an all temples TAS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ls31-3ezfs
also pay attention to the way I enter the water temple. I timed it and the new way is 5 seconds quicker than the ocarina dive way bloobiebla used in his TAS ;)
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as I'm working at this as well, I can tell you something about it
last frame doesn't mean best frame. try different frame combinations and try megasidehopping at first.
when you find out, on which frame the mega sidehop works, try mega flipping on the same frame. the thing is, even if you can megasidehop on a certain frame, you are sometimes not able to mega flip on the same frame, because if you are too high, the tektike is unable to hit you after you backflip for the mega flip
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I've tested this a few days ago and megasidehop + jumpslash gains less high than a mega flip. a mega flip also gains way more distance, so there's hardly any chance, that this works.
there could be some weird physics, that allow link to clip up with less high because of the jumpslash, but that is doubtful, especially because of the less distance fact.
about the "ganondorf escaping idea":
the void, that makes link die when jumping down is always placed like that, that you can't reach one of the platforms under you by jumping down. only thing that might work is using an ocarina/fish dive or whatever disables the void while falling down.
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kuwaga, the warp songs are hackable.
the bolero of fire could be hacked with item number 2547 or something like that. sadly there aren't that many items :(
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he only got spirit and shadow, believe me ;)
he also manipulated other stuff, that's true, but the stuff we manipulated was: bomb bag, quiver, gauntlets and songs
to make the bridge appear you have to have watched the zelda light arrow cutscene.
maybe having light arrows is already enough to trigger the cutscene, but someone once told me, that it doesn't work
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you need spirit and shadow medaillon to activate the light arrow cutscene. and yes, it is possible to get those via memory manipulating glitch
when you get adult, there appears the bomb sign on c-down, although you have no bombs, that is true. but you have 0 bombs and you can't get any bomb drops, so no way to use them apart from some memory manipulating glitch to make bomb drops appear
this is all done in speed runs of this game nowaways, but it still takes nearly an hour to beat the game because of all the long cutscenes ;)
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As people telling me a super ego for some of my early statements, I have to say something about this
1. I'm not planning doing an OoT TAS and I've never planned doing one. so why should I have wanted this run to be not published for my own fame then?
2. I've been saying for 3 pages already, that I'm not against publishing this run anymore, because you guys brought good points, that convinced me
3. you often mix up stuff I said with stuff slowi or swordless said or don't look at the context enough to see, why things written. sometimes I have the impression some people (no need for names) do this to make me look even more bad.
4. the only reason why I was so much against publishing this TAS was, that in my opinion a new TAS should be on the same level or even better than the best TAS of the game on the site. In this case it is Bloob's TAS that set the base and the new TAS has not that level. This is my opinion, so respect it and don't flame me again
and no, I'm not just doing TASes for fame, I do it because of my love towards Majora's Mask ;)
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you could have also quoted, that i said
"hmm, I somehow changed my opinion"
because you convinced me a while ago already.
and seriously, how was I disrespectful? should I say "wow, that TAS is amazingly played, all that sick optimizing shown everywhere" when it just isn't?
I totally agree that my first statement wasn't ok, I don't know, why I wrote in such a rude way. but this only appears in the first post.
and the lazy TASer thing was also not refered to the author himself. you have to understand the context. I was picking up a normal problem, which is, that it's somehow pointless to try perfecting a run, because nobody will notice it any way.
I'm allowed to say, that the run isn't greatly optimized. This is not disrespectfullness.
and the great 3 of OoT TASing wasn't even meant to myself. the great 3 are bloobiebla, swordless link and mitjitsu, because you make it sound like I said this to myself ;)
but something different, moozooh.
the way I was treated was also not ok. I was told racist and stuff like this out of no reason. that should be considered as well
and someone said something against my smilies. I'm allowed to use as many smilies as I feel like. there's actually just one in this whole post, so what's the problem about it?
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moozooh wrote:
So I've just read this stupid war and let me put a disclaimer first: what I'm going to write below is not aimed at invalidating MrGrunz's opinion, but rather the premises it was built upon and the way it was presented.
MrGrunz wrote:
as I'm an OoT TASer myself, I just can't stand all the sloopiness shown in this TAS. bloobiebla set the level an OoT TAS must have and this TAS is far away from reaching the same level. in my opinion it's just not ok to publish such a run, because people, that are not really experienced with speed running zelda (not actually TASing) will think, that this guy did the most optimized and best TASer ever. it's sad enough, that most people on youtube still think, that guano's TAS is the best TAS ever made :/
when I or anybody else works on a TAS he works hours and hours on every little thing to really optimize it, but when you then read people calling this brilliantly played you start to think:
"why am I actually trying to optimize? it's pointless, the average viewer won't notice, so let's just make a quick TAS without trying to optimize at all"
I'll tell you how it reads. "This run shouldn't be published because the player doesn't deserve to be thought of as the best, people should know I'm the best! If this run is published I won't feel good enough about my work because my ego is fragile and dependant on the crowd's opinions".
Another thing to consider is that this run might have been started well before you found some of the early-stage improvements. 200k rerecords on a completed run is a great body of work regardless, and your opinion and criticism, while technically valid, were presented in a very disrespectful way in the earlier posts. Bad English is not an excuse. You don't see Japanese insulting others, and the language barrier is more pronounced there (I take it that you, or at least your native language, come from Europe).
MrGrunz wrote:
hmm Raiscan, to me this website is about TASing a game to its limits, so saving every fucking frame possible, while still trying to entertain.
[…]
and yes, tasvideos is about obsession with optimizing or what do you think do TASers try to save every fucking frame possible?
Grunz, seriously, if it happens that you complete your fucking run and it's made known to me that you have missed at least one fucking frame's worth of optimization, route improvement or whatnot, you'll be getting the most fucking deserved "no" vote in the history of the site from me, without even watching. I'm dead fucking serious. ;)
(I also hear foul language and condescending smilies add weight to your words!)
MrGrunz wrote:
This whole website is build on the competition between the many TASers trying to beat the games faster and faster
And this TAS is faster than whatever we have, so it makes sense.
And no, to rule out a misconception, it's not really built on the competition. It's built on Bisqwit's desire to build a comprehensive and well-informed resource about tool-assisted speedruns. Competition came afterwards when people realized they could do better. And pretty much the entire catalogue of TASes on the site has been submitted with known improvements, save a few perfected games like Donkey Kong or SMB.
MrGrunz wrote:
the average viewer doesn't notice wether you saved the 6 frames you worked 5 hours on or not ;)
It's good to see you're smart enough to realize that. Now be smart enough to realize that these 6 frames are not supposed to impress the average viewer. They never had. And you're not supposed to create your TAS to feed your ego, so this run shouldn't stop you from working on your own even one bit. If you think that creating a faster version isn't worth it anymore because this run has already done the job of impressing everybody you wanted to impress, then you have effectively devalued your work. This run is already submitted, it's been seen by thousands of people, there's no turning back.
moozooh, please stop mixing up what I say with stuff other people say.
I've never insulted the japanese guy. I've never said anything against the language just something about the technical quality.
and you also seem to misunderstand something. no, I'm not saying "hey, there could be 6 frames saved, so I say no to the submission, but I say "well, this run isn't greatly optimized so there could be saved like 30 seconds just by optimizing, but as the run is overall ok, I'm not against submitting it" ;)
and another thing to note. there is a difference between this run and runs that are submitted, although there are known improvements.
the difference is, that the TASer didn't even aim to fully optimize.
and some important quote from me, because people keep telling me, that I was somehow disrespectful against the author:
MrGrunz wrote:
he also didn't aim for optimizing in most cases as he admitted in the TAS description, but I must say, he did an amazing job for this being his first TAS he ever did, though (someone told me, that this was the first TAS he ever did, not sure)
