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TheAxeMan wrote:
Yay, it's published. But the commentary is missing!
The commentary subtitles are ready, but they just haven't been added to the YouTube encodes yet - we need Nach to add those, hopefully shortly.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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1411kb is a normal size for a 25-minutes .fm2 file, as it is a text format file. .fm3 contains some extraneous data but has a binary format, which makes it smaller overall. However, .fm2 is much more compressible when put in a .zip (should go down to 10-15kb at that length) than .fm3, although it heavily depends on what kind of data the .fm3 file may or may not contain.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Kurabupengin wrote:
Hey, isn't this game misses the unnoficial game category or something?
Yeah, that was overlooked. Added it now.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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feos wrote:
Returning to my question again, is it worth all 3 additional encodes officially embedded, or a simple youtuber linked from the description?
I don't think it's worth all the extra encodes; the unlit dungeons only take up a small part of the movie. Just linking a YouTuber in the description sounds good enough for me.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Don't do it for the primary encode. The primary encode should showcase the run as it is, not using hacks to fake the appearance of certain segments. Alternate encodes are okay, of course, if obviously labeled (like camhacks and alternate soundtracks for Sonic games).
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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andypanther wrote:
By the way, is there any objective reason why the published TAS of this version has such a lower entertainment rating than the NES version?
Entertainment is inherently subjective, so an "objective reason" for it would be a contradictio in terminis. But ALAKTORN's post below highlights some probable reasons. In general, nostalgia and/or popularity of a game tend to make runs of them more well liked, and the original SMB is obviously better known and more remembered than SMB Deluxe, which looks like a cheap knockoff in comparison.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Yeah, let's go with that.
EDIT: "Stairs glitch" for grammatical accuracy.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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feos wrote:
This is exactly what we call a glitched warp. You arrive some place you aren't supposed to visit that soon.
Except, as I said, no place is visited. Only an event (final boss fight) is triggered, but in that case I guess it can be considered close enough.
So go with "warp glitch" then. Any other questions?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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If you consider it a warp, then call it "warp glitch".
I'm not sure whether to consider it a warp though, considering the player does not actually warp anywhere, just glitch-trigger the final boss fight in the first area.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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feos wrote:
I wonder more about the branch.
There are two options. One is "major skip glitch". It is neither a direct game end glitch nor a warp (which are more commonly referred to as such in branch names), but it will be similarly descriptive of the run.
Alternatively, you could do "stair glitch"; naming the specific glitch also holds precedents, like Crash Bandicoot 2's "box glitch" publication.
It's probably best to go with the former.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Viewer response seemed to be decent overall, although there is a discrepancy between the votes and posts that seems to suggest that some people don't know what they are actually voting for. That puts this run in a bit of a grey area, and I opted to go with the positive route. The run also has a bit of an incidental humorous value, which helps to keep it up.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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This run was initially pitched as a speedrun with some speed-entertainment trade-offs, but upon watching it it looks like it has gone quite deep in the way of trade-offs. This is more of a playaround than a speedrun, and it should be judged as such. (A clear example is the Fake Sailor Moon bossfight - half the boss battle consists of infinite loops, the other half of repeatedly and slowly knocking him down with a variety of other moves; with clearly little semblance of aiming for speed). I talked to GoddessMaria about this, and the fact that the run is a playaround has now been properly made clear in the submission branch and description.
For the sake of judging this run as the playaround it is, I'd like to know if any viewer has any comments about this run's playaround value.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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"Treble" is another synonym of "triple". Although it's almost unheard of in American English and is still less common than "triple" in British English, it is mostly still used in a few specific contexts, such as darts.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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electricslide wrote:
because that exact same ROM is also in a non-Wii release.
But it's not the 'exact same rom'. That's my point, Mothrayas.
You are missing the point of that line - I was comparing the Wii and 3DS releases with each other, which both contain the exact same (this) NES ROM. Obviously it's not the exact same ROM as the NES original.
electricslide wrote:
There is no NES release of this game. There's a WII release and the 3DS release. There are significant additions to the game that make it different. This is why this game is being TASed because if there weren't significant differences there would be no point.
This is also why it should not obsolete, because these are different games. Arguing 'beta' whatever, that's a sign to me that yes, these are different games. Different versions with different content.
The reason we're considering obsoletion is because this version's content completely overlaps the NES release's content. There is literally nothing that the NES run does that this run doesn't also do. The NES run is, therefore, technically redundant.
electricslide wrote:
It's also really not fair to Phil because again, most of the content is still his, and his sections have not been improved. If it were improved, different story, but it's not.
This is a different argument - albeit it is one that is worth arguing. I agree that it is not fair to Phil if his movie is just obsoleted without an improvement. Perhaps give Phil a coauthor position or something, so that he still retains some credit for the record. Or perhaps just don't obsolete at all.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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electricslide wrote:
It's a different game, with different levels.
It has an added level. The rest is identical.
electricslide wrote:
It is in fact slower.
No, the speed is the same. The submission states as much. If you want to disagree on this, come with proof or facts or something rather than just having us going in circles of "no it's not".
electricslide wrote:
The level times are not identical because it doesn't have the same levels.
Three of four levels are exactly the same, and as such can be compared, and those times are indeed identical.
electricslide wrote:
Technically, this precedent would allow every single WII remake to stand in for it's NES game, to be published as an NES game, without being faster and using the inputs of the previous NES tas.
It wouldn't have anything indicating that it's, in actuality, a WII game.
This is a bad precedent to set.
What remakes are you talking about? If you're talking about Virtual Console releases, those are typically just literally the same ROM as the NES game (in an emulator wrapper), and even if they aren't, they don't have any additions that justify publication unlike this game.
electricslide wrote:
It is a NES ROM
It is not. It's dumped from the WII version.
It is still a NES ROM. The Wii release literally consists of just a NES ROM and a NES emulator that runs it.
electricslide wrote:
Ok, which is why it's a WII game and not an nes game.
The Wii release is a Wii game. What underlies it is a NES game. You can't call the underlying ROM a Wii game, because that exact same ROM is also in a non-Wii release.
electricslide wrote:
How is this different from any other Wii remake?
I'm still curious to know what other Wii remakes you are talking about. If you mean VC, see above.
electricslide wrote:
Is it possible that they could have made other coding changes in 25 years to clean it up and cut out loopholes and programming errors?
Considering it still has exactly the same glitches as the NES release, that seems very unlikely, and is also unfounded.
electricslide wrote:
Well then. Can you please show me where it's been done?
I can't find any concrete examples, but there are clear post references to writing ROMs on NES carts by true. For this game, it'd be no different.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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electricslide wrote:
This is not a remake.
Yes, it is a remake. Some 20+ years after the NES orginal.
You are grasping at wording, which is made clear by you separating my lines and omitting half of my second sentence just so you have a point to write.
electricslide wrote:
Except it's not as you go on to point out. It's got different stages and it's slower.
It's not "slower". The gameplay and game speed are the same, and the level times are identical as pointed out in the submission text.
electricslide wrote:
As such, since this game's content entirely supersedes
Is it faster or slower?
I said game content, not run content. And again, the gameplay is equally fast because it is identical to the original NES release barring some level additions.
electricslide wrote:
I guess we can expect to see every single NES publication to be 'superceded' by wii remakes. Sounds like fun.
How many NES games do you know with later ROM releases on Wii that add missing content? I can't think of many.
electricslide wrote:
Fact is - it's a Wii remake.
electricslide wrote:
It's never been released for the NES. How can it be an NES game when it's not released for it?
It is a NES ROM, released inside a NES emulator wrapper for the Wii and 3DS releases. Hence it's possible to TAS the game in a NES emulator in the first place.
And as others said, why would Nintendo go through the bother of coding in the new level in 6502 ASM in this day and age, unless they already had it lying around since the 1980s?
electricslide wrote:
Anty, could it be console verified on the NES?
Yes, by dumping the ROM to a NES cart it could be run on NES and verified. It has been done, in fact, if I recall correctly (with some other games)
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Torchickens wrote:
I wonder what this is? It's a Japanese Emerald "TAS" where the runner tries to escape from the Professor Birch battle eight times, then do some specific things in Birch's lab to warp to the Hall of Fame (including walking around in a certain way, menu flashing maybe to manipulate the memory address locations?). I hope it's not fake. They said that you need a specific Trainer ID, which in this video is 59368.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm14023790
It's fake, according to the hidden run comments that are spoilered out with white-on-white text. It used a modified Emerald ROM.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Watched the WIP, it's looking really good. Julius vs. Julius was just as much fun as it sounded like.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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electricslide wrote:
This, I don't really see the point vs the NES port, which as Spikestuff said should not be obsoleted. I agree. Don't obsolete, just reject this.
[...]
Also, I really dislike replacing the NES originals with the WII remakes. Consideration should be given to the history of the NES. We wouldn't replace the NES super Mario with the SNES all-stars version.
This is not a remake. This is literally the exact same game as the NES release, just with the missing stage from the arcade version included. As such, since this game's content entirely supersedes and contains that of the original NES game, I'd say it is worth obsoleting it.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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grassini wrote:
can this be revived and sent to vault?
grassini, before asking for runs to be unrejected for Vault consideration, please read the Vault rules to see if it's eligible. In this case, it isn't, as the Vault does not accept board games.
Also for the other gruefood runs you recently bumped with similar demands, be sure to read the submission threads to see why it may be rejected or cancelled. (We don't revive cancelled runs, those are up to the author to uncancel).
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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To answer the topic title: Yes, Gambatte is the most accurate GB/GBC emulator, and BizHawk (and lsnes) use Gambatte for GB/GBC. So if you can't use/record from a console, use Gambatte or use BizHawk/lsnes, depending on whether you need TAS tools or not.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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grassini wrote:
The vault has enabled a lot more content to be suitable to TASing(by not getting rejected for not being entertaining) so we've a broader list of target games to TAS.Hence the 12 out of 20 publications.
It's 6/10 for both Moons/Stars and Vault right now.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Twenty minutes of great action. Yes vote.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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gbagcn wrote:
Also it seems like more work is being put into improving existing runs than creating new runs.
Actually, looking at the front page right now, 12 out of 20 new publications on there do not obsolete/improve on any run.
As I stated last page, we have ~120 "first edition" runs (runs of new games) per year out of ~250 publications per year total. That's a little less than half, but also note that that doesn't include e.g. new branches.
It's perhaps not a big difference, but don't underestimate the output of runs for new games or fresh categories.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
