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In addition to what's already been said, I'm all in favor of streamlining the site for the sake of clarity and usability.
Picking a random publication, I find it has six buttons to show that movie, and that's way too many. There's the obvious ones (watch on youtube, download movie file) and then there's a total of four buttons that show an "A/V", two over a mirror and two over bittorrent, and one is marked as "compatible" without noting what exactly it's compatible with.
And that's way too many. Getting rid of the two bittorrent buttons is certainly a step in the right direction.
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Great to see that the new site is live!
More feedback from using the new forums and lists,
In the published movies forum, you used to be able to see when a movie was published (by the thread creation date). This is no longer possible. This is relevant for people who visit that forum to find the new publications (as opposed to new videos posted for years-old movies).
In both workbench and published movies forums, the thread creator is always going to be TASvideos agent, so this column can be hidden.
On any forum thread, "showing posts 1-50 out of 58945" is redundant to the "showing page 1 of 10" counter; it would be cleaner to remove the former.
I'm unclear why there's a Reset button on the forum, or what it does.
The tiny "link to this post" button should be on the right next to the quote button, and the same size and color.
On submission pages, the field for 'game' should be first. "submitted by" and "on" should also be fields, not displayed below the fields in a textbox.
in forum list, "last post" looks nicer if aligned to the top.
Description for 'general' is probably too long, and description for 'awards' is silly. Description for 'other games' says it's for movies for other consoles, but then what's the 'other consoles' forum for?
Arguably, 'the newbie corner' should be at the top of the forum list.
Anyway thanks for the hard work on this, and happy new year too!
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So, being not all that familiar with Super Mario 64...
I understand the point of a 120-star run, or a zero-star (or minimal-star) run, or a fastest run regardless of amount of stars collected. That's basically 100%, low%, and any% for this game. I'm sure there are other viable goals for this game, too.
Now about 16 stars, though. I doubt most people find it entertaining to have 121 separate movies, one for each quantity of stars. So that begs the question: why not 15 stars or 17 stars? And I don't know. Apparently the stars in the Bowser stage don't count, so the category actually is "collect 16 stars before the Bowser stage". But there's a 30-star door before that stage. So the category actually is "collect 16 stars before the Bowser stage, and skip the 30-star door with the MIPS glitch but not another glitch, and do not use this MIPS glitch in other places".
If that is a valid goal, why isn't it a valid goal to "collect 13 stars before the Cool, Cool Mountain level, and skip the 50-star door with the BLJ glitch but not another glitch, and do not use this BLJ glitch in other places"? Or other mad-libs variants of the above. Now I fully admit I may be missing something about SMB64, but "that's how we used to do it when we knew less about this game" doesn't strike me as a compelling reason for a separate branch.
I'm all for expanding the site goal, but I still don't feel the site would be improved by allowing e.g. no-glitch, or one-glitch, or low-score, or low-key-press, or no-left-plus-right as distinct runs for e.g. Super Mario Bros. It's just too easy to make up goals like that that end up looking pretty similar to already-established goals, and having two or more runs that look indistinguishable to layman doesn't strike me as entertaining. $.02
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On the https://staging.tasvideos.org/Publications/Filter page, please sort alphabetically the various listboxes (e.g. flags, groups).
I note that the Platform listbox uses abbreviations for everything, which doesn't seem necessary (e.g. gc when it would be clearer to spell out "GameCube"). Likewise, flags uses "improve" for "Major Improvement".
It doesn't seem possible to filter on genre, why not? How about filtering by the TASer who created it?
This whole page takes up only the top 25% or so of my browser window, meaning all listboxes can be much taller.
In the groups listbox, "Pokemon" is rendered as "PokACmon".
Browsing from https://staging.tasvideos.org/Movies , the search tab should probably lead to the aforementioned filter page, but currently gives an error.
The movies by category tab should be alphabetized.
Likewise, on https://staging.tasvideos.org/Subs-List the pulldown for system should be alphabetized.
The header for boxes "statuses" and "status filter" should be clearer. What is meant is respectively "statuses not shown below" and "statuses shown below".
I'm unclear why statuses uses those left/right arrow buttons, whereas the years selector instead uses shift-click to multiselect, and the systems selector is a pulldown only allowing one option, and the user selector is a text field. Consistency is more user-friendly.
Browsing to (e.g.) https://staging.tasvideos.org/GameResources/DS should have the list of subpages expanded; currently it looks like the page is empty except for "see also" links.
Yes, and those are two distinct paths through the game. However, a movie that's "ice beam against boss X but speed booster against boss Y" would probably not make it as a third branch.
If we don't find enough harm in allowing a bit more things, but enough benefit, we should be able to allow them.
I have no problem with allowing a bit more things. I do see a problem with inconsitently defined goals.
To give a concrete example, "Zelda 1 obtaining all items except the large shield"; or "Iji killing no enemies except robotic ones". As I recall, both of those were rejected for moon goals, and I feel that with the new/expanded site goals they should still be rejected. "SMB64 can't glitch through this door except with that particular glitch" strikes me as a similar case.
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ikuyo wrote:
* Any method of skipping the 30 star door other than MIPS clip is banned.
Well I'm not highly familiar with this game, but this restriction strikes me as arbitrary. "No skipping the door" or "no using X glitch" seem reasonable, but "you can skip the door with Glitch X but not with Glitch Y" or "you can use Glitch X but not to skip this door" not so much. It sounds rather like "you can warp from world 1 to world 4, but not from world 4 to world 8".
I mean, I'm sure there's history behind it, but it doesn't seem like a clear-cut way to distinguish two separate branches.
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To me, the difference is that the A button in Mario has a singular function (i.e. to jump) whereas the Z button in Undertale is context-dependent. That is, the "minimum press" Mario movie means completing a jumping game while jumping as little as possible. This is an intuitive definition, and it's an unusual way to play this game, and therefore I find it entertaining, similar to playing a game about killing people with minimum kills, or a game where your main weapon is a sword, without that sword, or a game about rescuing people that avoids rescues.
However, in Undertale, the Z button doesn't correspond to a specific character action. It's strictly an interface thing: it selects menu options and advances text. So in the movie it's not nearly as noticeable as minimum jumping or minimum shooting. You write in the submission text that these kinds of runs are "avoiding using a certain controller element as much as possible", but the distinction is that the Mario/Contra/Zelda runs avoids a certain GAME element, whereas the Undertale run avoids a certain INTERFACE element. I'd say the former is entertaining and the latter is not. Hence, my vote.
feos wrote:
Aims of the site have changed since then, several times.
I was quoting that not to say that "this is policy" but to say "this summarizes my views".
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I'm really not a fan of categories that are highly technical and hard to understand for a casual player. That includes pretty much all "minimum button presses" submissions that I've seen. That you require a seven-line paragraph block of text to explain what it even means (and that there's something as a "half Z press" too) really doesn't help. Note that this is very different from restrictions like "no running", "no sword", or "no killing / pacifist"; all of which are immediately and intuitively obvious to laymen.
And then I'm surprised that this movie is almost 50% longer than [4149] Linux Undertale "Genocide ending" by TommyeAsY in 58:10.93.
So a no vote from me, and let me cite an earlier judgment on the topic, "while a technical challenge, I don't believe it produces interesting movies ... No one playing SMB counts the number of times they press a button while playing the game, or the number of jumps they make, and etc. These super technical categories don't really fit with the aims of the site."
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Samsara wrote:
1. Moons becomes Showcase, or Showcase becomes a new class
I'm in favor of this option. If showcase is about movies that break rules but are entertaining, well, the old "Moon Tier" is also about movies that break rules but are entertaining. And yes, the place-formerly-known-as-Moon-Tier contains numerous playarounds and alternate speed goals, a few single-level movies, and at least one movie with a cheat code.
I don't see the point in hosting movies that break rules and are not entertaining. And it strikes me as reasonable to have some limits as to what rules can be broken (e.g. you must have accurate emulation).
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InputEvelution wrote:
SNES TAS that only had a 1080p60 encode on YouTube some months ago. It had a rapid brightness flickering effect in results screens that affected the whole screen
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Spikestuff wrote:
We should keep to that 4K resolution due to titles that produces colour vomit (see J. J. Squawkers) or PlayStation titles that are both 3D and has dithering (see Crash Warped) implementing.
That's a fair point for games on fifth-generation consoles like the PlayStation, but what about SNES / GB / DOS titles? Surely they can have a lower-resolution encode (assuming that doing so saves the encoder work, of course).
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nymx wrote:
The only thing is..the ending would have a scene that will be confusing...where the main character just sits there for about 20 seconds, before automatically ending.
That's basically having a good movie end with a whimper, not a bang. Personally I'd prefer not to have the char standing doing nothing for twenty seconds.
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"After having defeated the evil Grand Vizier Jaffar, the brave Prince claimed just one reward"
Sorry to be nitpicky, but it was the brave youth that claimed that reward. He only became a prince because he married that princess. That's right, in the first Prince Of Persia game you don't actually become the prince until you beat the game.
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More checking!
The "sports" genre seems mostly well-applied, except that fighting sports tend to be tagged as both "fighting" and "sports"; I feel that's incorrect because a boxing sports game is not the same genre as Mortal Kombat.
Also, NES Vegas Dream and SNES Vegas Stakes (casino games) are mislabelled as sports.
For the "racing" genre, some racing games are dual-tagged as both racing and sports; I don't think that's helpful.
Also, A2600 Skiing doesn't strike me as a racing game, and (despite the name) C64 The Human Race really isn't a racing game. GBA Kuru Kuru Kururin, GB The Incredible Crash Dummies, and Genesis Marble Madness / NES Marble Madness aren't racing games either, unless we (weirdly) define the genre as any game where you have to reach a goal under a time limit.
There's the "shooter" genre, and I feel that A7800 Choplifter doesn't really fit (I mean yes you can shoot, but there's more to the genre than having a gun). Likewise, DOS Duke Nukem and DOS Jazz Jackrabbit obviously aren't shooter games.
Also, I feel we should distinguish between shoot-em-ups (e.g. Galaga) and run-and-gun games (e.g. Metal Slug, Contra). And, as mentioned before, first-person (e.g. DOOM).
A genre tag we appear to be missing is "survival horror"; by its descriptive text, DS Dementium: The Ward is a survival horror game, but it is oddly tagged as action + shooter.
Another genre tag I haven't seen yet is "card battle", such as DS Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's World (which is currently tagged as a puzzle and strategy game, but doesn't really fit either genre). Several more puzzle games are incorrectly double-tagged with puzzle and strategy (assumedly because solving puzzles involves strategy, but that's not what "strategy game" means). For instance, DS Polarium.
We might want a "real-time strategy" tag for e.g. PSX Warcraft II; it is often considered distinct from turn-based strategy.
GBA Hikaru no Go, NES Solitaire, and SNES Clue are mislabeled strategy, despite clearly being board games. GBA Tom Clancy's Splinter Cel and SNES ActRaiser are oddly tagged platform and strategy, a combination which makes no sense to me. Finally, VBoy 3-D Tetris is clearly not a strategy game.
NES Where in Time Is Carmen Sandiego is not a strategy game either, and is oddly tagged "storybook" despite really not being a storybook adventure (see above for my remarks on that tag). Maybe "educative" should be a tag?
And finally, the "puzzle" genre needs some split to distinguish between falling-block and connect-the-color puzzles (e.g. Tetris, Puzzle Bobble), and thinking puzzles like Rubik's World. I'm not really surprised that a ton of games (that contain some puzzles) are labeled as "puzzle game" despite that not being what the genre means.
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Memory wrote:
As I brought up in my first post, with the way we do things currently we created our own genre definitions and expect people to either know what it means or look into the movie tags guidelines to find out what it means. I think that's unreasonable and they should be updated. I'd like to go with more popular genre definitions and names.
Fair point, I concur.
Ok, I'll bite. The genre "adventure games" is commonly considered the games based on Colossal Cave Adventure (ADVENT) and later the King's Quest series by Sierra; not the A2600 game also called "Adventure", and neither the NES game "Adventure Island"; as described in this wiki article. Yes, numerous early-age designers put the tag "adventure" on some of their boxes, but a marketing slogan does not a genre make.
That means that on our list of adventure games, basically everything that is also tagged "platform" or "action" should be kept in that genre and have its adventure tag removed.
In addition, we have a distinct tag for "storybook", which appears to be a term TASvideos has made up; I've never heard of "storybook games" anywhere else, and it's not on Wikipedia or on Mobygames. This list has only nine games on it anyway, and all of them appear to be adventure games (and most of them are tagged both adventure and storybook). These appear to be "adventure games with a first-person perspective" which is just not a distinct genre.
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Memory wrote:
Metroidvania is a list that was made by a non-staff member without really consulting any of us. I don't know how well updated that list is.
Fair enough, but my point is that "action adventure" (or however you want to call it) is a distinct genre from "action" and from "adventure". Currently on the site, action adventures are tagged arbitrarily with "action", "adventure", or with both.
Memory wrote:
Is the definition we have for major skip glitch good enough?
I'm not sure about the difference between "heavy glitch use" and "major skip glitch".
Since there is a "Forgoes save data corruption" tag, why isn't there "Forgoes memory corruption"?
Noxxa wrote:
Custom level set - for games where level files can be imported (through internal or external means) while the executable or game code itself remains untouched.
If the levels are imported through external means, I see no practical difference between a custom level set and a hack (e.g. both Super Mario World and DOOM have editors based on someone reverse-engineering the level data format; there's no reason to call the former a "hack" and the latter a "custom level"). On the other hand, some games have internal level editors.
This includes bootleg/pirated games.
"Pirated" generally means "illegally copied", so that's probably not the word you're looking for.
Homebrew - games that were developed outside of the platform's official publisher's platform
This needs rewording for platforms that don't have an official publisher platform, e.g. C64 or DOS. And on these platforms, homebrew games need a standard for notability, because any high school kid can write his own game in the standard programming languages.
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I'm just noticing that there are eleven tags for genre (action, adventure, fighting, platform, puzzle, racing, rpg, shooter, sport, storybook, strategy) and yet there's a manually kept page for Metroidvanias.
Perhaps there should be a genre tag for it? "Genre: Metroidvania" or some similar term. I mean it's not a big deal or anything but it should be very easy to implement.
For that matter, it may be interesting to have a genre tag for "beat-em-up" (as in Streets of Rage, because that's pretty distinct from e.g. Street Fighter 2); as well as for "first-person shooter" (as in DOOM, because that's pretty distinct from e.g. Gradius).
