Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
This emulator you're referring to is a reimplementation of the server, with the original game files from 2009 or so?
Hourglass is worth trying, but you'll want a Windows XP virtual machine.
Second question : Assuming that the program recognizes the S4L emulator, how do I make it so that Livesplit works at the same time to know the end time? Or is there an intergrated timer directly in the program that'll tell me?
It's integrated.
Third question : If I'm unable to make it work on any program, would someone be kind enough to help with making it happen via discord?
If no existing tools work then the options are using a basic macro, or creating your own custom tooling. The latter would probably be a long process.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
Nice, I've been hoping to make or see a Flash TAS with RNG manipulation since the Flash algorithm was merged a couple of months ago.
(Platform is supposed to be Flash, how do I change it?)
The site assigns it to Flash if the game name field contains "ruffle", which your previous submission did but this one doesn't. Otheriwse you need to add "Platform: Flash" to the annotations.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
zapkt wrote:
Oh I didn't know website could embed a specific version of Ruffle.
The behaviour is not what was happening back in the days, though. You could drag the hand to a side of the screen, at which point the hand would get "stuck" to this position, go around the embedded player with the mouse and re-enter the player at the other side of it, which would immediately move the hand there. That's what I remember, at least.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
WSL2 (unlike WSL1) uses a real Linux kernel, it's basically a lightweight VM.
BizHawk's Windows support is DOS-based Windows only and won't be useful here.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
It's a Unity game with a Linux release, so chances of it working are fairly good, you need the Linux version of the game though. You can install Steam client on Linux, or use something like DepotDownloader or SteamCMD.
By the way, none of libTAS, Wine, nor WSL are emulators in the typical meaning of the term.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
Nice to see a submission of this after I abandoned my WIP.
Junk - It's also possible to run to the left, collect a Bartman and fly to the exit. It's a few frames slower in a TAS, but a good option in real-time speedruns.
Really? In my movie I seem to finish the stage 23 frames faster.
User movie #638937213542955895Link to video
Otherwise, this submission saves 5f on skateboarding, around 160f on the boss, and loses 10f (I think) at the start of ice cave (which is where my movie ends), probably from RNG.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
This is somewhat different to Unity because the site does not have any "Unity" platform as it does with "Flash".
One thing to note is that AIR programs can contain native extensions, which may tie them to a specific platform rather than being platform-independent.
Personally I think trying to fit this game or others into any one box is pointless, and the site should consider some sort of tag for the engine used which can be searched for, but that's a discussion for elsewhere.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
This game has been decompiled as of a couple of months ago: https://github.com/cflip/HallOfTorturedSouls
They clearly did a better job with Ghidra than I did.
Some things to note:
The code is "xlkfa", not "exlkfa". I don't know why I didn't try this, since I had already found that "excelkfa" wasn't necessary.
You can press Ctrl to fly, removing the zig zag path challenge. Seems like a debug code or similar, but this game is already a hidden secret, so it feels ambiguous what it would count as. I think I wouldn't really want to use it anyway.
This decompilation should make it easier to find some RAM values to help optimise the TAS.
I don't think I would make a TAS with the standalone version.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
CoolKirby wrote:
Does Excel/Hall work with a lower Windows screen resolution, like 320x200 or 320x240, that might make the game window larger in relation to the rest of the screen? It might also save more time during boot.
Interesting idea, I'm not sure how to achieve a lower resolution though, normally the lowest offered is 640x480. Also this would require a verification movie.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
I'm unsure about this classified as a speedrunnable game
Isn't the credits texture always scrolling?
Like there is no code checking where you are, unlocking the ending or giving you a reward. You just have the ability to walk around.
I also think that the front credits (walking forward as soon as you spawn up the stairs) is the same as the background credits. The only difference is the staff photo in the other room.
Yes, the credits are always there and the only difference in the hidden room is the staff photos. The only thing that is unlocked is the wall blocking the hidden room.
This is definitely a borderline case, but I think it has all the traits of a game (at least, the game-inside-a-program does), and it has speedrunning leaderboards on speedrun.com, which this TAS far surpasses through superhuman gameplay.
ACE is freely allowed in playarounds, though the spirit of the original game should be maintained, and copyright should not be infringed. Fair use applies here.
This point seems to have originated here around the time of #5384: MrWint's GBC Pokémon: Yellow Version "arbitrary code execution, playaround" in 05:48.28 (there are some more comments on this point in that submission's judgement). We don't appear to have had any submissions which use ACE to present completely new audiovisual content between 5384 and #8991: OnehundredthCoin's NES Super Mario Bros. "arbitrary code execution" in 04:52.65, and I think this point in the rules was overlooked when judging the latter. I'm not entirely sure how this rule should be interpreted and if it should just be removed.
As for the fair use point, I think the legal aspect of these publications has been overlooked recently. It feels like people are forgetting the considerations that went into the description of [3358] GBC Pokémon: Yellow Version "arbitrary code execution, playaround" by MrWint in 05:48.282. These Bad Apple movies are using a work in its entirety, without transformation, unless you count the reduced graphics and sound quality due to the use of the NES/GB/GBC. The purchase links in 3358 were added due to fourth Fair Use factor in the US Copyright doctrine, which considers the "effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work".
Realistically, Bad Apple has a complicated origin (the original, remix and music video are all by different authors) and it has been reused many times over the years including in the demoscene. But generally I think there should be more consideration put into the legality of publishing these types of ACE playarounds.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
RTA categories don't include the credits input, but having 4 minutes of almost nothing at the end would be a hassle for real-time runs, which isn't a relevant factor for the TAS. The author included the credits input initially too, so I would be in favour of glitching the credits.
The different rulesets are a bit odd. JP ruleset allows E+N+D and K hotkeys to skip boss fights.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
If Wiki: Games/List directly linked to the publications for each game, it would be as functional as MoviesList. There's little point having another list to manually update.
Edit: Linked to the wrong thing before
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
CoolKirby wrote:
Cool to see this launched and "finished" in the fastest time. Does maximizing the game window work on PCem/Voodoo3 to make it easier to see? I know in the video you linked, the graphics broke when the player tried it.
If anyone wants to go through the effort of finding a build that both works with libTAS AND properly emulates the game, go right ahead, but there are so many builds to go through that I simply don't have the energy to bother with that myself.
I tested with https://ruffle-regressions.github.io/ and found this bug was introduced in 2022-09-03.
Edit: This was discussed in Ruffle Discord server a couple months ago, apparently, before this version some moving enemies worked and some didn't.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
MUGG wrote:
But I'm not sure if this should be considered a legitimate playthrough of Super Mario Bros. 3. Normally, the player deals with one game, played on a system with controller buttons and the power-on and reset buttons at his disposal. Now here, the player is additionally allowed to swap the game catridge at any time.
Interested to see if I could get this to sync, but could you post the hashes for each rom used? Given the complexity this does not seem forgiving if even one game is not the correct one.
md5:
edd45ec3e32db77f9409719f42f64696 Athena (U) [!].nes
8d8b36adb154fad6b55f14133fc4f3f6 Bomberman II (U) [!].nes
66a3579e1a3783db3938c01a06b818f5 BreakThru (U) [!].nes
d48df338cc9c0134b7415cf194feabb3 BurgerTime (U) [!].nes
7daa3b0ae39f19ebabcc129072c1ca72 Gradius (U) [!].nes
89cd417134089abd87c2592b3e5bf7f1 Jaws (U) [!].nes
9238f69250c73c3f89bda2ba51831f45 Kid Icarus (UE) (V1.0) [!].nes
a3dde61df4bc4ebce2a60c2cf869081e Kirby's Adventure (U) (V1.1) [!].nes
0fcfe5d87068541182c996e52da45802 Krusty's Fun House (U) [!].nes
4156f66c0fac36222b5a1da05db85d68 Legend of Zelda, The (U) (V1.0) [!].nes
d634a9b11b464bc2a6c452baf5a57f3e Mickey Mousecapade (U) [!].nes
06bbe9e8ef8d3f6d7b864ef46dcd7ddb Soccer (JU) [!].nes
f94bb9bb55f325d9af8a0fff80b9376d Super Mario Bros. (W) (V1.0) [!].nes
55f7030dc6173f2a0145a97f369f49f4 Super Mario Bros. 2 (U) (V1.0) [!].nes
85f0ddddfe4ab67c42aba48498f42fdc Super Mario Bros. 3 (U) (V1.0) [!].nes
e110005398a060e940e28815c2e42941 Zanac (U) [!].nes
sha1:
a120df7168d2fa7e9e993fc9eabea1f7daaa0c00 Athena (U) [!].nes
ac670d3e8511c52e29edff08c82b45b64c446ba1 Bomberman II (U) [!].nes
cb6867cfc0316606c49f5aa7d9eb0ccd410ba153 BreakThru (U) [!].nes
3737eefc3c7b1934e929b551251cf1ea98f5f451 BurgerTime (U) [!].nes
92645fe142861c3d3fda209bb906ad2b0e353988 Gradius (U) [!].nes
c102da80b2ded9364ebd707df14cbc3bd40bd65a Jaws (U) [!].nes
b11b8c90b25ae6818427b494f24f79a9a112f2ee Kid Icarus (UE) (V1.0) [!].nes
5c2810bca7659f3aeb4a993b1c38f228b0fc1c0e Kirby's Adventure (U) (V1.1) [!].nes
cb8926a1dbab3a773ce23469119ebe176da2b4a6 Krusty's Fun House (U) [!].nes
799459548f9636dd263200da494f04058f5540e2 Legend of Zelda, The (U) (V1.0) [!].nes
c37aa6acfcd64eb51e93e77881babc8c06779bee Mickey Mousecapade (U) [!].nes
e403509c3455a0aaedc8929d80f3cca57863a36a Soccer (JU) [!].nes
33d23c2f2cfa4c9efec87f7bc1321ce3ce6c89bd Super Mario Bros. (W) (V1.0) [!].nes
d3f8cfd7822c1cf634c2132009f877b44244850f Super Mario Bros. 2 (U) (V1.0) [!].nes
5f9019040fe23cb412a484e1ef430e59e589f9b4 Super Mario Bros. 3 (U) (V1.0) [!].nes
e960ef2315135abf430fcc80ad9fd24a20e38f16 Zanac (U) [!].nes
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
I'm confused what this game actually considers solved, since none of the 3 puzzles seem to end in the standard solution of the bottom right tile being blank. I suppose it only considers if 1-15 are in order from left-to-right top-to-bottom without regard for the exact position of tiles, which changes things a bit.
Either way 22 moves is a very short solution, the average is at least 50.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
An update to this:
Fastest Completion has been removed (it's now Wiki: LegacyPages/FastestCompletion).
YoshiRulz has created a module to replace the list on Wiki: Movies.
YoshiRulz has also made a pull request to add links to systems on game pages. They note that they would have linked to Wiki: Platforms sections, but that the difference in platform naming prevents this (an alternative solution to this would be additional anchor links on Platforms page).
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
FractalFusion wrote:
It's easy to forget since it's been two years since everything started, but the game itself (being a children's game and all) does not police whether a dinosaur is four-colored in a valid manner. That is left entirely to the consensus of the community.
Unfortunately I still remember the situation with the first publication of this category.
Does this submission definitely satisfy the four colour rule?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(549)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 276
Fwiw, this was quite easy to sync verify, but I'm hesistant to mark it as such since the emulator is unapproved.
Trying to condense the considerations for acceptance into shorter points, I got this far:
TriCNES does not meet some of the Requirements for an emulator to be approved. It doesn't produce audio, it can't be used to enter inputs/create "normal" TASes (although it does play back existing movies from other emulators), and it has no AVI capture.
The first ~15 seconds of the credits are visually "wrong", because of the PPU reset flag. This doesn't occur in the console verification video because it's A) verifying the Reset run rather than the submitted Power On run and B) using a Famicom.
Intercycle cart swapping could be used to complete/execute arbritrary code on any NES game.
