Posts for RingRush


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This I believe is much more exciting than an any% run. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJhP2yusVWc This won't be submitted here because it isn't a single input file, starts from SRAM, and has no verification movie.
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This movie does not have any emulation differences from the previous one. Apologies to whoever faces the daunting task of encoding this. RE: Dirty cart. I've already routed this and will likely be producing a video in the next month or two. However, it will be 85-90% spliced footage from this TAS - for the most part dirty cart just ends up as a subset of the clean cart run with ISG at a different spot.
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I posted this in Discord, but moving it to the forums per request. Frankly, I think the decision to reject this is a mistake. It has been pretty well established that an NTSC run and PAL run are visually incredibly similar, with a few frames less of gameplay in the NTSC version to go along with ~.8s more of text that is too fast to read. From an entertainment standpoint there is functionally no difference, although you can at least argue PAL is more entertaining since the cutscene difference can theoretically be noticed unlike the gameplay difference. But really, I don't care to argue one side or the other here. What I do believe is that this decision effectively says having no run is preferable to a run with the "wrong" version, even if they are essentially identical. This is not a question of legitimacy of the run, but rather how strict to be about enforcing rules for the sake of it. The rejection message tries to sidestep the issue by saying "Looking forward to an NTSC submission". But there is no guarantee one is coming (and based on what Ballaam has said elsewhere, I doubt one will be coming in the near future). The run is up on YouTube, so why would the TASer jump through a hurdle and redo the run just to have an end product that looks identical, when they can spend their time working on other things? This kind of red tape just frustrates people and make them less likely to bother submitting in the future. If this run was posted with the clarification that future improvements on NTSC could obsolete it, then that seems perfectly reasonable to me given the site's version stance. That makes everyone happy and is consistent with what happens when improvements are known but may not be implemented right away. But the case that the site is in a better place without this run is weak to me, and alienating to others.
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I know in the gameboy version you can skip the ladybug cannonball sequence in level 2 with a really precise jump over the grasshopper. I assume its not possible here? I was TASing the GB one a while back but it was so abysmally boring I stopped. Still is on the PS1 version. But totally vaultable. Edit: Just realized this only has 4 levels instead of the GB versions...8? 9? Don't remember. Probably should be obsoleted if that version is done.
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Guess I should probably post this stuff here, since it involves DK64 and TASing. Been working on A button challenge stuff off and on since 2014 and finally started uploading stuff these last few months. And honestly some of the strategies are super cool. Channel link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7NpaX5YZ5pyXiibLU2E7fQ/ Here are some sample videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6KBsuppwaI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9NYxIQUvU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_72SBL0h3fE Videos on this channel are supposed to build successively off each other, so there are probably a lot of references to tricks you might not understand. Hopefully this pastebin helps a little: https://pastebin.com/u4VYcB16 Edit: Oh, looks like the any% TAS was never even posted here. Yeah that's a thing from a year ago - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1ydz98KtNw
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I used the word obsolete but it's a bit strong. The new trick will save on the order of 15-20 seconds (still a lot to be evaluated), which is notable but not stunning. Main difference is some of the orange clips will be replaced by phasewalks (these can't be used in all places), the Mad Jack cutscene will probably be skipped by phasewalking to void out and then warping back to T&S, and some K Rool strats will vary because you can warp to the center faster. I will probably redo this in a month or two when the dust settles, but I hope this run can still be accepted for now just in case.
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The8bitbeast wrote:
The choice to use clean cart probably made for a more entertaining run but I was really disappointed that you said it's against the rules to start from SRAM in the Twitch reveal as it's simply not true. There are many runs on this site that start from dirty SRAM.
I apologize, that comment was poorly worded. There is a standard, not a hard rule, to not use dirty SRAM when it does not provide a significant increase in entertainment value. I'll probably splice together a demonstration of the dirty cart route soon, basically doing a low-optimized version of the start + footage from this run for things like MJ & K Rool. Since it doesn't add anything new to the run, I don't think an optimized TAS would be worth publishing alongside this run, so it isn't really worth more effort than that. Thanks for all the positive comments!
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It would rearrange the MMM route so its hard to know exactly (the route I have in mind I'm not sure if you could complete that section in time), but I think something like a high 22 or low to mid 23 for TAS timing. The run wouldn't really have anything substantial that isn't already included in this run though, just less tricks.
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There is no emulator that can currently do everything needed to make what I consider an acceptable TAS of the game. I currently use a modified version of BizHawk made by Cronikeys for my YouTube channel, but I've been delaying working on a full game TAS until emulation some day improves. Here are features that I think an emulator needs to have: (1) TAS tools - Duh. Bizhawk has this. (2) Proper saving - The version of Bizhawk I have has this and maybe some of the newer main versions do too. Not all emulators do though, but this is absolutely essential to basically any route in this game. (3) Fixed graphical spiking - This doesn't have to be 100% fixed, but with the version of Bizhawk I use it can get really bad in certain areas ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdZZn19uVw for example ). This isn't an absolutely essential fix, but it is extremely distracting sometimes, especially with Tiny. It invites the viewer to question the validity of the run and distracts the knowledgeable viewer from what is going on. If graphical spiking was just one or two frames every 30 seconds that would be acceptable, but in a lot of areas there are more spiked frames than unspiked frames. Apparently some emulators are better than Bizhawk in this regard, but I have't verified this myself. (4) Fixed random tree warping / telegrab - There is a glitch in the game where after a technique called tag barrel storage, if you grab a tree or climb a ledge you can teleport to another location. However, on emulator, sometimes this will happen randomly with no prompting. The version of Bizhawk I use seems much better about this than, say, project64, (especially with regard to random grab boosts) but there are still several places where I need to go out of my way to avoid mysterious teleports while climbing trees. It turns out this isn't important for any%, but it would be a nice fix for, say, a low optimization tool assisted demonstration (LOTAD) of 101%. This is supposedly related to graphical spiking. (5) Accurate lag emulation - Lag is SUPER IMPORTANT in DK64 and serves as the basis for how many tricks work. The emulator I use is pretty good, but not perfect about this. It is certainly good enough to do a TAS, although any improvements here would be welcome. A fun test of this is to watch the intro demo - if it desynchs and DK falls into the water, it is probably because lag isn't emulated correctly. (6) Proper photos - When the camera is used to capture a fairy, a photo will appear on screen for a few seconds to show what you just took a picture of. Some emulators this doesn't work on; the one I use it does. However, the photo stays on screen for too long before transitioning to the fairy cutscene. It looks weird, and it costs a few seconds each picture, and it would be really great to fix this. It isn't a dealbreaker though if this can't be fixed. (7) Better loading time emulation - Some areas like DK Isles or Frantic Factory take noticably longer to load on emulator than console, and may exhibit what I call a "double-clutch" load (you'll know what I'm talking about if you watch the load). For most games this can be dismissed as a "whatever" minor time loss, but this actually breaks the route for any% due to a universal timer trick called Intro Story Glitch. I really, really, really want better loading times (it doesn't have to be perfect, but something similar to console please or even a bit faster if need be) before starting on any any% run.
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The route doesn't go to Forest or Aztec or even unlock any kongs. Myself and other DK players have been planning the TAS for months now. We're waiting on a new version of BizHawk that is being worked on that emulates, among other things, loading times correctly. The current route cannot be completed with the slightly longer load times currently present. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT5BwCjg1EU This isn't optimized at all, but it is a sample of what the TAS might look like.
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There are a myriad of new improvements for 100%, including 4 new color crystal door skips esg and I found and a new trick to jump off any slope (pound jumping). I do want to come back Croc eventually and make those improvements, but I'm about to start on a DK64 TAS (workable emulator scheduled to be released in the next month and a half) so it'll have to wait until after that. That "Wrong Warp" was to the bonus stage that is in the same room. So it is weird and worth looking into, but you aren't being sent to some totally random place.
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DK64 is an absolutely awful choice. For one there is no TAS of it. Nor will there be one in the near future due to a variety of emulator issues (most notably no version emulates lag properly and has reset recording). Even if there was a TAS it is a really boring run for more than half of it (K Rool & cutscenes). It doesn't have a wide variety of tricks (there would be a lot of moonkicking and orange clipping with tool assistance). Trick diversity died with the advent of widespread orange clips and the helm early route. The run would be confusing enough that you would have to take significant time to explain what is even happening, since MMM is extremely unintuitive. In an unrelated note, I do have an emulator that runs the game reasonably well and has TAS tools (although lacks reset recording and thus cannot do a full game run). I am planning a few short, unoptimized demonstrations of some routes and tricks that a full TAS would use, so maybe expect those in the next few weeks.
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Just to clarify for people not in the know, the video above is in the PS1 version which is actually quite different. The N64 version has a few more tricks than the PS1 version and a faster time accordingly - http://www.twitch.tv/flint_gaming/c/2245826 .
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<RingRush> so <RingRush> is there some special bizhawk patch to play dk64 <RingRush> or special setting? <mkdasher> hmm, is not dk64 working for you? <mkdasher> it seems fine for me <RingRush> well <RingRush> if you let the intro play out <RingRush> it desynchs <RingRush> like dk jumps into the water instead of onto the vine <mkdasher> oh <RingRush> that means it is not emulating properly <RingRush> and when I tried soft resetting it just froze <RingRush> and the graphics were pixelated and weird but I assume there is a plugin for that Turns out there is a plugin for the final issue, but the fact that the intro desynchs and soft resets don't seem to function remains. The reason I care so much about the intro synching is that is the best way to tell if the game is emulating the lag and climbing physics properly, something previous versions of mupen did not. There is a hacked version of mupen specifically for DK64 that fixes these issues, so maybe the fix is simply applying those patches? Edit: Tree glitch still happens, where when you are climbing the game either freezes or warps you out of bounds. So physics are definitely busted.
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That grab glitch is a well known emulator-only bug. It has been patched in the DK64 version of Mupen as one of the many fixes. The house warp I'm talking about can be done without the grab glitch though, you clip out of bounds after grabbing the coin.
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The emulation is still too bad to be TASing this game at the moment. There is a build of mupen created by Cronikeys that runs the game significantly better but has no reset recording. Cfox said he might try to apply those fixes to BizHawk when the new version is released. Until then, test TASes seem kind of pointless. As an aside, I know this is suboptimal, but this TAS is still beatable in real time purely due to routing reasons. When a working emulator comes out I either plan to do a route-showcasing run or work closely with a TASer (two or three people have already stepped forward) to make sure a lot of the more obscure tricks and timesavers are implemented. As a reference for the future, your movement strategies in a few places are slow (and I'm not talking about before the first barrel jump, I know why that has to be slow), and you are missing a pretty major timesaver (house warp).
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Is this just a practice/test run? There are loads of mistakes and missed optimizations that real time runners use. I don't want to go through the entire video and type up of my suggestions unless I know this is going to be final/submitted. This route also does not work. Key 6 doesn't unlock Creepy Castle - key 5 does. And Key 5 takes much longer to get than key 6, so it is almost cetainly not faster. Diddy's gun is required for K. Rool (Tiny's isn't). Chunky doesn't need Gorilla Gone or his gun. If this is intended to be more than just an emulator test, I suggest watching real time runners twitch.tv/cfox7 and twitch.tv/ringrush quite a bit more before continuing. Do some more game understanding because there is a lot missing in this WIP and route. A few other people have already expressed interest in TASing this game, so you'll need to compete with them if they follow through on their promises. One final thing - that emulation looks horrible. The lag is completely wrong and in a game where so many tricks are lag based you simply couldn't do a proper TAS on this.
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^ Good catch, I have several Croc 2 ROMs on my computer and most are for the Playstation version...should probably label these better. Updated submission
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You get extra lives by killing 20 enemies, so the lives I got were just along the main path. I never spent any extra frames to kill something, and getting the life itself costs no time (unless you want to warp with a gameover, which isn't useful in any%).
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Question answers: 1. Pause at 8:01 in the encode and again at 8:14. You'll notice ledge I'm standing on in the latter is not there in the former - pushing the two boxes into their final positions activates it. 2. Pause at 10:44 and you'll see the lower area is filled with lava. Pushing the box blocks off the lava flow and instantly dries up the area so I can walk on it....I know this makes no sense. 3. I didn't die, that is a bizarre intended shortcut to later in the level.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjbGdoh_krY Low quality encode for my channel. Sorry for not using BizHawk, I either never knew it had GBC recording abilities or forgot about it.
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This would be a pretty bad game for TASing because you start off so slow. But I might do TAS ILs of it eventually with wind crest and such.
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nmaster64 wrote:
This isn't a traditional unlock like others in the game, that second file is required to pull some data from. Normally the "Game Pak Bonuses" data holds all the unlocks (except TT who needs "Times" data as well). Characters, Modes, and Tracks do not require Adventure data to stay unlocked. Thus, the need for an existing Adventure file means existing save/state data is being pulled from it and this glitch is not just using an "unlocked feature".
^This is so important, and a way bigger issue than the non-issue of getting a verification movie up before acceptance. Unless someone can show this is possible without an existing Adventure file, I don't see how this movie can be published as anything other than a "glitch demonstration" (and if is reduced to that, it is a very poor one). Taking progress from another save file isn't "New Game +"...it isn't even beating the game. Would anyone agree with an SM64 movie that starts from a 120 star file with all key and star doors unlocked? If this glitch can be done after deleting the save files, fine. Borderline, but fine. But if it can't, since Diddy Kong Racing apparently saves track data outside of the files, the glitch is stealing saved progress and not just utilizing unlockables like you would for hard mode in many games, or even (although I hate this example) the previously mentioned Funky's Weapon Glitch. I think we can all agree a category needs to start at the start and end at the end, and loading saved progress, regardless of which file you are on, is not doing the former.
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Short, entertaining, and full of references for whoever gets them. I guess I'll vote yes for vault.
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abahbob: [DELETED LINK] (I think this works, if it doesn't w/e just use 1.1)