Posts for RingRush

Posted: 1/13/2011 9:34 PM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

scrimpeh wrote:

I'm sure you'll be forced to death warp more than once.

I've had my deathwarp route planned since I started, and I won't need to deathwarp at all in world four. It is actually much less key intensive than world 3. If I somehow find a new trick that requires a deathwarp, the heart I got in 3-B2 cost 0 frames to grab and will allow me to use the trick (ending with 0 lives instead of 1). Even though world 4 is lengthier, I don't think it'll take nearly as long as world 3 to complete. I was doing a lot of other stuff with new games, finals, etc, which is the only reason world 3 took so long.

Posted: 1/13/2011 9:19 AM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l24Me8GdhsY World 3, featuring more hovering, another gold key skip, some amusing oddities, and EXCESSIVELY BORING AMMOUNTS OF SWIMMING. Not as interesting as world 2, but entertaining nonetheless.

Posted: 1/12/2011 2:21 AM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

If you could get past the fences in Ikana, that would be one of the two barriers to getting a bottle in the first cycle (which isn't obviously useful for anything but game time). It would also, without any additional tricks discovered, allow you to get bottle before learning Song of Healing (but not first cycle...pretty useless but an interesting thing nonetheless).

Posted: 1/12/2011 1:50 AM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

@16-star is best for console: There are many people who have done 1 star runs and a few which have done 0 star runs. The recent SDA marathon actually had a 1-star run done live, so the BLJs aren't some impossible luck-based trick that require a day of attempts. From the few minutes I saw of the encode before it went down, it was obviously as optimized as the 0 star run. However, as said before, the 16-star category seems to be arbitrary and skipping certain tricks for no real reason. On the other hand, the japanese record sites track it as a seperate category, and there are already TASes of it on the site, so there is definitely an argument for the legitimacy of the category. Furthermore, TASVideos cares a lot about entertainment, which this run definitely has (the same entertainment can probably be extracted from a 70 star run, but none exist yet). I voted meh originally, but the more I think about it, this deserves a yes. Yeah the category is awkward, but it is a common category among speedrunners and has runs published on the site already.

Posted: 11/12/2010 6:22 PM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

You cannot RBA Light Arrows. You can BA Light Arrows, but that requires Minuet of Forest+Forest Medallion, Hookshot or Bow, Song of Time or Hover Boots+Giant's Knife, Prelude of Light, Megaton Hammer (I think TAS can use a seam trick to skip this, but I'm not sure if that takes ISG or not). It has been looked into, but it isn't worth it.

Posted: 10/25/2010 5:07 AM
(Edited: 10/25/2010 5:21 AM)

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

Credits took most of the video, which greatly increased the entertainment value. Obligatory yes vote for amazing skill and endurance. Also, this run does utilize corner boosts, and is faster than real play. I think it is more worthy of publication than the speedrun at SDA...

Posted: 10/15/2010 7:32 AM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

Kyrsimys wrote:

(the muslim definition is undoubtetly something like "peace is only attained when all people on Earth are muslims") but by our western definition of peace, you'd have to have some pretty revolutionary new evidence to say that islam is a religion of peace.

So they want to convert people. So do a vast majority of relgions. Just because Islam teachs conversion does not mean it teachs VIOLENT conversion. There are some radical groups who do believe in violence, but that is true of all religions (the Muslim ones just have more money and publicity).

Posted: 10/15/2010 5:12 AM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

I've changed things a bit since that upload: I added playaround on the arrow and improved the last phase of the Demon Itsy fight by about half a second. I doubt anyone cares much, but I can give the pxm if anyone wants to see (it isn't that that impressive).

Posted: 10/13/2010 6:48 AM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

I agree, I can't tell the difference between this run and the recent sonic run. Honestly, they are both characters moving fast, doing their respective moves, etc etc. I'd rather people focus on something different completely then this "go really fast" stuff that always looks the same. Voted no because I want to make a statement.

Posted: 10/12/2010 6:40 AM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atsaknaxt5w World 2, should be significantly more interesting than world 1.

Posted: 10/2/2010 7:52 PM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

When we were creating the 100% route for real-time, we did not ban RBA. But we never ended up using it - it never ended up saving time. RBA isn't the magic wand people think it is, it has many limitations including item deletion, significant setup time, and more. Things like RBAing the Song of Time or spiritual stones are useless, since you need to get the stones legitimately from the dungeons to get the ocarina of time. Medallion RBA is worthless since it deletes the light medallion, and many items require completing the dungeon legitimately anyways (Prelude of Light, etc). You can't create normal items, eg megaton hammer or fire arrows, using RBA...I'm not sure why everyone thinks you can. Most equipment RBA ends up deleting Kokiri Tunic or Kokiri Boots, both of which cannot be replaced (and no equipment takes long to get anyways...you can't RBA BGS). The only possible use for RBA would be to get bottles, but it was already decided among the zelda community that the big poe quest needed to be completed normally. RBA may have been useful for extra bombchus, or similar things, but it just so happened that it isn't. Re: "trade items get deleted" - in 100%, the ruling is that only the highest tier of each item counts, and it must be in your inventory (not deleted) at the end of the game. For instance, 100% runs skip the Silver Scale, because it is completely worthless and the Gold Scale is easy to get. 100% runs also skip Goron Bracelet and Silver Gauntlets. This is not going to get changed, so please don't start a debate over this, I'm just informing people who don't know the ruling.

Posted: 10/2/2010 12:43 AM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

TASeditor wrote:

most of a 100% TAS could work with the reserve bottle glitch. sounds a bit stupid, but propably it's faster.

No. Reverse Bottle Adventure is only used for the creation of bottles, and that would only be useful if we didn't have to get all the big poes (the current ruling, similar to the GS duplication glitch, is that we need to get all bottles normally). All other effects, such as those that obtain songs and medallions, both create AND delete items, rendering them either worthless or slower. There is absolutely no reason why DoT skip wouldn't be used in low%. I can't even imagine an argument on why it would be banned, so I don't really know how to counter that. But as I posted a few pages back, low% is ruined, no matter what you decide on RBA/BA. Low% MST already bans RBA/BA, so no issue arises there.

Posted: 9/26/2010 6:22 PM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

I specialize in real time routing for OoT, but I'd imagine the major differences in Grunz's route result from not savewarping (unless it saves a lot of time). I'm guessing he'll try to throw in odd mush forest temple cutscene skip...from what I found it doesn't save time in real time (since you need a bottle to do the trick), but maybe there is a special TAS strat to pull it off without a bottle. Or maybe he gets ruto's bottle. Another thing that we played around with was DC as child, but we deemed it not worth it. I wouldn't be surprised if a TAS could make it faster though, especially with the "BK skip". Grunz, if you don't want to share your route openly, can you PM it to me? Maybe I can find something that you forgot or suggest a faster alternative. @ Above post: Yeah, bolero CS skip gives you the bolero. Same with Lullaby CS skip, Minuet CS skip, and Serenade CS skip.

Posted: 9/26/2010 2:25 AM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

Below is a recent MST real-time segmented route. The TAS would obviously be a bit different, but this gives you a rough estimate.

MST Segmented Route v 5.0

Segment 1:
Intro
Sword + Rupees
Save, equip sword

Segment 2:
To shop + rupees
Shield
Pause: Equip Deku Shield
WESS escape
Fairy Ocarina
WESS in Hyrule Field
Cucco dive to well
Save

Segment 3:
Past skulltula with pokey strats
Deku Stick from pot
Actor glitch
Dead Hand + 99 Rupee chest (99 R)
Vine clip to Bombchus (10 C)
Equip bombchus on C-Right,Save

Segment 4:
Exit well
To Zora’s River
Knock down GS and HESS past rocks
Keep on ascendin’
Cucco past waterfall
Pot o’ nuts
Megasidehop past Fatass (9 C)
Jabu early jumpslash
Equip Deku Nuts on C-left, Save

Segment 5:
Chu first switch (8 C)
Ruto
Back up to the entry level, using Ruto on switchs
To Boomerang
Pause, equip boomerang on C-down
Bring Ruto back to second room
Ruto throw
Megaflip after her (7 C)
Place Ruto on switch, to next room
Chu switch and enter boss room (6 C)
Pause, equip Deku Sticks on C-right
Stick it to the man (also boomerang it to him)
Get HC, take blue warp (4 H)
Equip Chu on C-right, Save

Segment 6:
WESS escape again
Peahat SS to market
To castle
Damage self thrice with GS
Get over the moat with damage boostin’ (5 C)
Get past the TSDA clones
Lullaby with cutscene skip (4 C)
Re-enter market
Hylian Shield from bazaar [19 R]
To Temple of Time
DoT skipz
Hit puberty
Equip chus on C-down, equip Hylian Shield, Save

Segment 7:
To Hyrule Field
To Kakariko Village
To Graveyard
To Hookshot
To Chu SS warp to seam (3 C) 
Equip Hookshot on C-left, Save in Shadow Temple

Segment 8:
Hookshot first gap
Truth Spinner
To Hover Boots
Equip Hover Boots, Save

Segment 9:
Backwalk hover past the first two gaps
Pause, equip Kokiri Boots
Acute angle Jslash
Boat
Small Key & Boss Key
Chu Pillar (2 C)
Hover Boot across the invisible floor room
Get lucky and kill Bongo Bongo + HC (5 H) [Skip this HC if you can 2 cycle Volvagia w/ bk skip using only 8 hearts]
Back to Kakriko
Up to DM, enter DC
Save

Segment 10:
Blow up first wall (1 C)
Jump to first switch
Chu staircase (0 C)
Pause, equip bombs on C-down
To Bomb bag (20 B)
Bomb eyes (18 B)
Enter mouth
Jump to block, push it into hole
Bomb floor above KD  (17 B)
Two-cycle KD (15 B) 
Goron’s Ruby, get HC (6 H)
Up DM to magic (use seam + superslide, use Ocarina bomb trick while blowing up rock before fountain) (12 B)
Megaflip down, Bolero CS skip (10 B)
Megaflip again, head to Goron City (9 B)
Hookshot up, blow up rocks (Ocarina trick to take 5.5 H damage) (8 B)
Through Lost Woods, megaflip or HESS somewhere (7 B)
GJ to of maze (6 B)
Minuet CS skip (5 B)
Play Minuet
Hookshot up to Forest
Save

Segment 11:
Typical Forest route to bow (someone flesh this out, I’m lazy) (2 B)
Save

Segment 12:
BK skip
Phanton Gantom
Get Heart Container and blue warp (7 H)
SS clip into Deku tree (1 B)
Equip Deku Nuts on C-right, Save

Segment 13:
Hook to the top
Jump down + jslash reflection + web clip
Kill all scrubs
Now that you are an adult, show Gohma your nuts
HC and blue warp (8 H)
Save

Segment 14:
Exit market
SS to Hylia (0 B)
One spinslash, 3 bomb drops (15 B)
House clip and to Water
Equip Hover Boots, Bow on C-right, Save

Segment 15:
Hoverslide to far edge (14 B)
Water BK skp (9 B)
Morfaaa
Heart Container and Water Medallin (9 H)
Superswim to Fire Arrows (8 B)
Superswim back to shore (7 B)
Three bomb drops from grass (20 B)
To field
SS --> ESS to desert (19 B)
Hoverslide across bridge (18 B)
To GV
Save in fortress

Segment 16:
Get caught, Hoverslide gateskip (17 B)
Through the desert (add in an ESS somewhere(16 B)
Hover up to Seam outside of Spirit Temple (3 B)
Hookshot up to Silver Gauntlets chest
SS across to Mirror Shield (2 B)
Pause, equip Fire Arrows on C-right and Mirror Shield
Anubis + Beamos room [bomb drop from beamos] (6 B)
Hookshot clip face (5 B)
Spirit BK skip (2 B)
Twinrova + no HC
Equip Ocarina on C-right, Save

Segment 17:
Play Bolero
Bomb drop from rocks outside temple (7 B)
Enter Fire Temple
Darunia small key
Save

Segment 18:
Small keys in lava room (5 B)
Ride that block
Bomb push through wall (4 B)
Small key from nearby jail, climb up wall
Small key from other upper jail
SS through fire wall room (3 B)
Blow up door in front of flare dancer, break one bomb pot while waiting (7 B)
Kill Flare Dancer
Up to Megaton Hammer
Pause, equip Megaton Hammer on C-right, bow on C-left
Fire Temple BK skip (3 B)
Two cycle Volvagia 
Fire Medallion and save

Segment 19:
Light Arrow CS
Rainbow Bridge CS
Equip Fire Arrows on C-left, Save

Segment 20:
To Forest Trial
Light torchs w/ fire arrows
Pause, Equip Light Arrows on C-left, Hookshot on C-down
Silver rupee room
Destroy forest barrier
To Water Trial
Hookshot clip freezard
Bow clip second red ice
Destroy water barrier
Pause, Equip Fire Arrows C-left
To Shadow Trial
Fire arrow the torch, hit switch
Hookshot chest, Golden Gauntlets
Second part of Shadow w/o lens
Pause, Equip Light Arrows C-left, Bombs C-Down, Ocarina C-Right
Destroy shadow barrier
To Fire Trial
Collect rupees
Superslide w/ hover boots to get to end (2 B)
Destroy fire barrier
To Light Trial
Get keys, ZL
Pause, Equip Hookshot on C-Right
Silver rupees
Destroy light barrier
To Spirit Trial
Rupees in first room
Chu chest, Equip Chus on C-Right, Fire Arrows on C-left, chu switch
Burn web w/ fire arrows
Equip Light Arrows on C-left, Deku Nuts on C-right
Destroy spirit barrier
Enter upper castle and save

Segment 21:
Various enemy samplings
SS up spiral staircase (1 B)
LA SKIPZ (or use LA)
Crumbling castle
SS into Ganon to keep MS (0 B)
Prepare for the finishing blow and...
Game crash, internal battery runs dry, hahahahahahahahaha

Posted: 9/25/2010 11:22 PM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

You need some backtracking (notably for the GS in the Song of Storms hole by Zelda's castle), but not as much as you'ld think. For instance, the GS you mentioned could be obtained without backtracking by skipping the Deku Tree until after you have bombs and boomerang (as is done in the current 100% route). And as I said before, there is no point to watch a 100% run if you don't want to see GS or HP. They are what define 100% for the most part.

Posted: 9/25/2010 11:17 PM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

The point of watching a 100% run is to see hearts and skulltulas. Otherwise, you just have an any% or all temples run, both of which are on the site already (although the all temples run is pretty outdated). Furthermore, many, myself included, find GS collecting adds a lot to the run in terms of tricks and things that need to be accomplished. And if you manage them well and throw in a bunch of glitches and tricks, they actually don't take as much backtracking as you'ld think.

Posted: 9/25/2010 10:39 PM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

The definition for 100% is already rigorously defined among the Zelda speedrunning community. The only change you can really make a case for is having the 37th heart piece count in a TAS for entertainment value, but most people are against it. When I say it will never be made, I mean it is way too hard to optimize, and tricks are discovered way too frequently. Being one of the four people who wrote the current 100% real time route (which was obsoleted a few days after completion by a new trick that we since edited in), I know how painful it would be to come up with a perfect TAS route (especially with regards to bombs). Every new trick found during the run will threaten to change the route and make you start all over, or force you to redo large sections to conserve or get more explosives. The any% is roughly stable right now, significant tricks haven't been found in a while. This is how bloob was able to finish his run. But 100% is so long and has so many different things to take into consideration, that tricks are discovered pretty much whenever someone spends serious time looking. The SDA 100% is horribly outdated. If that was submitted right now, it'd be rejected in a heart beat. I'm not good at estimations, but I think the current 100% target time for real time would be at or around the 5 hour mark. For a TAS, maybe 4:15 or so would be the goal. Again, these are rough estimates, but it shows how much the game has evolved since even a year ago.

Posted: 9/25/2010 4:59 AM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

I think is impossible to do one at a standard that would be accept worthy.

Posted: 9/4/2010 2:32 AM
(Edited: 9/6/2010 11:41 PM)

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqVv3tPUVbQ Hey, about time a decent-ish encode. It has sound and a stable framerate at least. Good enough to be uploaded to my main channel. This contains everything so far, about 7 minutes of content (a significant portion of that being loading screens) in 19,4xx rerecords (too lazy to check the last 2 digits). I'm definitely happy with how this is turning out. Time for the snow world now. One thing to note is in the last room of 1-6 (Darkness Descends), I seem to hover right only to hover back left. This is because when you are hovering left for a certain ammount of frames, Croc's body angles a bit, lifting his legs up and allowing me to land on the platform (which is higher than it seems). Edit: Redid this to save 512 frames, because someone on youtube told me if you press -R1- about 2/3 of the way through the company introduction cutscenes you can skip the last bit of them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O28YpBc6N7Y

Posted: 8/19/2010 1:02 AM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

Same awful framerate, new levels: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnLeMHtMcQ8 Included in this video are 1-3 and 1-B1. From now on I plan to post WIPs only after every island, but as this includes the first boss level I thought I should make sure I'm being interesting (for some reason I'm a terrible judge at what is entertaining). The fight starts at 1:12 in that video (also you can pause at 1:22 to see something fairly humorous). If the fight needs to be improved, any suggestions? Croc's moveset is really limited and I have a few more ideas, but those would be better used on later bosses.

Posted: 8/11/2010 2:48 AM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFU6DWkrRg0 And this is why I need to learn to do real encodes. Anyways, since I gather nobody watched my 1-1 WIP, I decided to try to make a video of it so I can get critique. The video turned out awful, with an unstable framerate and no sound, but you can't have everything in life. Just over 5,000 rerecords btw. Pre-emptive responses: 1] I can't pound that well any lower down...if you are a certain distance away from the well and you hit pound, the game simply stores a jump for when you next land. By pounding on a specific frame of a specific jump height I was able to cut off about a quarter of the normal height needed here, but thats it. (Note that you can do really close pounds on things that are the same level as you...the well is not). 2] There is a lot of directional wobbling in midair (especially 1-2 room 2). This is just to perfect my angle and, in the case of 1-2, avoid slowing down at all by hitting the sides of the platforms. It doesn't slow me down at all. 3] Yes the TAS will get more interesting than just these first two stages. But there will be a lot of jumping and hovering (vertical levels or levels with unskippable keys, for instance, will have a lot more to them). 100% would be undeniably more interesting, but I want to see an any% TAS done first because it is significantly easier and good practice.

Posted: 8/6/2010 2:53 AM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

WIP of the full-game TAS (1-1): http://www.megaupload.com/?d=446LF0CL It is amazing how many things you can change to be faster and look better, only to have a net gain of 0 frames. Anyways, I'm pretty sure this is optimal, unless a new trick is discovered (which I'm not counting out...I had to go back and redo the first room after I found a random trick to slightly reduce the slowdown upon landing and rejumping). If I'm averaging about 700 rerecords per room this early in the game...I'm a bit terrified of the later levels. Anyways, in my testing, I've also found a lot of other cool tricks (mostly for 100%). I've managed to clip past 5 color crystal doors, and I didn't even finish testing all levels (1-3, 1-4, 2-1, 2-2, 4-5). I've also managed to skip a few keys, like the one in the test video I posted before. Floaty jump also wrecks some "create platforms" puzzles, like the second room of 4-1. And of course, a bunch of tricks that save a frame or two that you wouldn't notice if you weren't watching frame-by-frame with memory watch.

Posted: 8/2/2010 9:44 PM

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RingRush

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Posts: 116

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=M7AQ8V53 <-- .pxm of the second room of Ballistic Meg's Fairway, just a test to see if I'm doing things correct technologically. (Using Croc_-_Legend_of_the_Gobbos_[U]_[SLUS-00530]) Can somebody watch and verify? I don't want to do an entire run only to find out I was doing everything wrong. Anyways, right now I'm working on optimizing angle changes. Rotation speed/acceleration is different depending on whether you are holding forward or not (i.e. you can spin faster at the cost of gaining forward distance), so it is a balancing act. Also, after 7 or so frames, Croc starts spinning fairly quickly so it often jumps over the optimal angle, meaning either accepting a slightly suboptimal angle or wasting more time adjusting it (which will have to be done on a case by case basis). Furthermore, every time you jump you lose 27 "degrees"(there are 4096 "degrees" in one full rotation), unless you take a small dip in speed. So yeah, right now it seems like the hard part of running this will be angles, as maintaining speed throughout obstacles is not difficult. Definitely looking forward to this project.

Posted: 8/2/2010 7:42 AM

Post subject: I'll take a bite at this game

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

For my first TAS, I've started working on this game. Right now I'm still in the testing phase, but I've found some interesting stuff, most notably that the fastest way of movement is diagonally [peaks at 155 speed vs 139 for forwards], maintaining as little time on the ground as possible (AKA lots of hover glitching). I'm planning to do an any% run...if all goes well, I may do 100% after that. I did a little test run of Chumly's Snow Den because it is an easy level...the boss isn't well optimized and I missed an obvious improvement in the second room (skip grabbing a ledge), but I think it is pretty good for a first TAS done in only around an hour. Do I just need to upload the .pxm (and I assume say which game I'm using)? Does the state I started from come with it? I'll do that tomorrow...maybe I'll improve it a bit first. I know about the hover glitch (obviously), the gobbo duplication glitch, and the out-of-bounds physics of the game. I've searched SDA and youtube, and there are no other exploits of note I could find. Anyone know of any? (I don't mean minor things like "hover over X to skip Y" or the Gold Key skip in 2-3)

Posted: 8/1/2010 7:25 PM

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RingRush

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (512)

Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116

Synx: First of all, you have to press the stick on B button in order to get the bottle on B. Thus, although you are not using sticks for their "normal use", you are still using them as a means to an end. Secondly, you CAN use the sticks on B without getting normal sticks by RBAing "stick ammo". These do not appear as normal sticks in your inventory, but do allow you to use sticks on B. And if you say "well until you RBA them, it is unusable", I will just say "well until you are in front of the Kakriko guard, Zelda's Letter is unusable" and claim it doesn't count. Third, what about the bomb icon on C down? It is in a very similar situation to the stick on B. If we say the stick on B counts no matter what, then that also mean the bomb counts no matter what, and the low% will be free to RBA and use bombs. Perhaps this is the best ruling, but a lot of people think the three coolest things about low% are bomb skip, hover boots skip, and hookshot skip. Fourth, if we say the stick on B doesn't count, then the fastest route would involve getting a stick on B, RBAing stick ammo, and using that ammo to light torchs in the Spirit Temple, thus skipping a long and chu-consuming hover to get past the silver block as child (I'm not 100% sure this is still true for TAS, but I know it is true for real time). How would viewers feel if you are using sticks, but say "they don't count"? There is a strong case that you never actually obtained the item "deku stick", just used them through manipulation of your B button, but how many random viewers are going to understand that? Fifth, let us say we rule deku sticks ammo counts as an item when paired with deku stick on B. Using the same logic, arrows count as an item when paired with Light Arrows. Therefore, getting the Bow and Quiver is less items than the Gold Scale + Ruto's Bottle + Arrows, completely changing the current idea of low%. This also involves a very boring hover in the Forest Temple off of a green bubble. Sixth, if we say items on B count no matter what, then it only makes sense that the fishing rod counts as an item. Getting the fishing rod on B is a necesary step in RBA, so this means RBA would have to be avoided. Once again, this would lead to a very boring hover in the Forest Temple to get to the bow. Basically, the stick situation is a mess. Regardless of what we rule, there will be some ugly consequences. The easiest way to get out of it would be to ban RBA altogether, but even then stick on B would still be useful to skip hovering in the Spirit Temple. Plus, without RBA, low% suffers as I said before from the bubble hover. Really, in my opinion, the ability to get bombchus without deku sticks ruined low%. Low% all temples however, does not need RBA to get the minimum 27 items (25 items if we don't count ganon's trials, although I think bloob did them in his TAS and SDA ruled them necesary). It has also a far more interesting route and more interesting tricks. If we were going to see a low% run, I think a low% all temples is a much better option.