Personally, I'd say this is the way to go--it wouldn't be a TAS of the original game and would probably warrant a publication under the "hacks" section of the site, but fuck it. Having played 1.3, I can promise anyone who takes it on as a TAS that it's going to have significantly higher entertainment value and be far more challenging/impressive than calculator facerolling. Someone should do this.
Not a fan of 1.3 myself. They pretty much just nerfed anything that was remotely useful to hell and back, and gave the computer opponents enough buffs to make the Civilization series jealous. In fact, I saw someone on the team state that the original intent was mere rebalancing, not balancing the stick in the other direction. There's another hack out there called LFT which I always wanted to try (which changes things up to make them more interesting/useful/better), but chronic procrastination. :/
Then again, seeing 1.3 absolutely decimated would be amusing in itself, and LFT is still being tweaked to this day, and given the "latest version" rule/guideline it wouldn't work.
System Error: you are of course entitled to your opinion, but I can't help but read your reasoning (SMB1's early finish aside) as roughly equating to "We already have umpteen million run&gun games; therefore voting no on this Metal Slug submission because it isn't novel enough."
Well, that's a bit of a stretch. I was really just referring to multi-game submissions. By the way, given your specific example, you can never have enough Metal Slug. :)
Catastrophe wrote:
Is there enough time to beat SMB1 twice? The changes of the second "loop" around probably won't affect the TAS. But it would be pretty badass to claim that this movie beats 4 different Mario games a total of 5 times in 10 minutes.
I'd be all right with this. Even if the run does end up taking a little longer or being slightly more convoluted from the additional SMB1 input, in my eyes it feels like an even bigger cop-out to make SMB1 finish way before the rest. Whether the second loop or not using the fastest warps is the method used to extend it, though, it'd be a sure-fire yes in my eyes.
Voting no, for several reasons, but one big one in particular: the Super Mario Bros. part. Compare to the other three games, which finish at roughly the same time. SMB1 finishes way before the rest of them. Why not figure a way to extend the gameplay there (probably by taking less optimal warps), so that it can finish at around the same time as well? The same is done in SMB2, after all. That's the most notable problem I have with this run, and should be reason for reworking in itself.
A second, less important point: it may be an unpopular opinion, but honestly, multi-game runs are an obsession that need to be suppressed. The concept is neat, but the novelty is starting to wear thin. While they may be impressive in a number of cases (even if lag frame abuse is pretty much key), in these games there are different methods of moving between the games. I believe that's a first (X/X2 control more or less the same except for upgrades/weapons, MM3-6 are the same except 3 lacks the charge, FF5/6 are just walking on maps and menus so are pretty much the same). Here, SMB and LL control the same, but SMB3 is not quite the same, and SMB2 is pretty different.
The only hook is that they're of the same series - the Mario series. And with the common B-to-run and A-to-jump scheme a number of games have, you could theoretically beat like twenty games with one input. Where do we draw the line, though? How different would the games have to be before it's considered unimpressive? Or is the brand-name of Mario acting as the deciding factor here? Just something to think about, that's all.
The arena part saved the run, and it's an improvement, so we'll go yes I guess.
But god damn. If I was playing this game and was met with...that pathetic excuse for an ending, I'd be pissed. I mean, I don't ask for much, but that was the lamest collapse of a tower I've seen in a video game. And it's in a game about blowing shit up, no less. What happens to the villains at the end? Exploded to hell and back, to smithereens, or at least just blackfacing? Nope, just kicked so hard in the nads they die or something.
Taking damage is required to do a walljump. So if there are no enemies, the walljump is impossible.
What about a projectile? Would it be possible to use one of them to cause the damage? And if the instant deathstuffs are an issue, what about one to cause temporary invincibility, and another to get in?
dunnius wrote:
The eruptions do not damage the town. They cause lag instead.
Huh. It has been a while, then.
dunnius wrote:
The Skull Head's earthquake stops the construction counter, but no other monster attack does. The fleece required message occurs right after a construction. If a lair is sealed, there will always be maximum growth. So there is no way to avoid the sheep's fleece, except for the uncovering the lake, which I believe prevents the tree message and the extra Source of Magic.
Ah, I see. Just wondering.
zidanax wrote:
System Error: Which part of the level are you talking about? If it's the first part a little before the scroll, it's because when I jump onto the platform with the scroll I want to go far enough to the right that I can pick up the scroll during the jump, thus avoiding the delay associated with a standing attack. That's means jumping off of the slope just before the spikes instead of the one before it when going for that platform. Walking across that small flat section between the two slopes before the spikes ends up being faster than scaling back a bit, jumping off the slope in back of the flat section, then doing another jump off the slope just before the spikes. Presumably because of the delay when you land from a jump. Also, if I do a jump off the slope in back, I end up having to scale back the jump considerably in order to avoid falling onto the spikes. In any case, walking across the flat section ended up being faster when I tested it.
If you're talking about the section with the fast-moving ice block, it doesn't matter how quickly I get to the far right of that section--the ice block will arrive at the same time as if I'd arrived later. What matters is catching the first ice block you can.
I was talking about the level in general. The fast-moving ice block was one that I understood, though. Short of somehow getting a walljump glitch off with a projectile. The rest of it makes sense, though.
zidanax wrote:
EDIT: As for the lack of subtitles in the action segments: I could've done it, but I thought people would find it distracting when they would rather just focus on watching the action. I guess I was wrong?
I think no one would've minded a little bit of explanation here and there. :) Not necessarily everywhere (because yeah, it would be distracting if every little bit was explained), but in some of the finer spots of the action it could be nice.
Liked this, but a few questions/concerns...
- Something that's always bugged me. If the Master is God in the Japanese version of Actraiser, then what's up with the sign in Actraiser II that says "WELCOME, MASTER, TO YOUR DOOM!" or something to that effect? Yeah, it says that even in the Japanese version.
- What's with the lack of subtitles during the action parts? I felt they could've helped to clarify a few things. Or just be funny.
- I may have missed it, but the bit about leaving the town before the fighting breaks out wasn't present in the subtitles during the Bloodpool simulation. Might wanna bring it up, just in case.
- Would it be possible in some of the stages where you need to wait for something to go up (Kasandora Act 2, Northwall Act 1) to use the wall jump to get up faster?
- It's been a while, but I thought it was possible for the Aitos eruptions to damage the town, if the fire lands on a building.
- Why were some slope jumps not used in Northwall, Act 1?
- In the Northwall simulation, would it be possible to manipulate a Skull Head into causing an Earthquake and knocking the population down to avoid using the fleece? And if the animation is too long, could a Blue Dragon and its lightning do the same?
So much for SDA's "verified no cheating", huh? :)
Very nice work!
Personally I approve of this just because of this. Maybe it's just a desire to see the fallout/things they'll demand, maybe it's to shut up their general headstronginess with that.
Warp wrote:
And again ignorant people can't help but to show their idiocy publicly in the comments:
"That’s neat, but it totally doesn’t count as playing it through on an NES in 5 minutes. Look at 3:54–my NES doesn’t let me wall-jump like that! Or look at 5:10!"
Funnily enough, there's actually a pretty simple way to demonstrate that the walljump is possible even on the cartridge. It involves the first pipe and the bricks above it, but I forgot the exact technique.
hopper wrote:
Maybe as those Japanese robohands improve, we'll someday get one that can press buttons 60 times per second. I totally want to see Data pwning some old video games!
Imagine if SDA made you proof you're not an android during those times. >_>
Also, if I didn't go to the john a few minutes before I first read about this, I think I'd shit my pants over the sheer awesomeness that is this device.
A little too many Nintendo-related things for my liking. IMO, if we're going to go complex, we may as well go the extra mile and be willing to draw anything. I mean shit man, you didn't even draw Sonic.
The entire point was to draw stuff just from Nintendo's first-party games.
Or was that a *whoosh* moment?
Of course I got the point, but I was displeased with said point.
Meh.
A little too many Nintendo-related things for my liking. IMO, if we're going to go complex, we may as well go the extra mile and be willing to draw anything. I mean shit man, you didn't even draw Sonic.
By the way, I have no idea what the floating head guy's idea of a healthy brain is, but seeing that to-my-knowledge ordinary gray brain with all the red blotches polluting it makes me so not want to have one.
It had a few interesting glitches, but it also had too many brutalities (they're all the same "repeated combo and explosive uppercut") and too much Kabal (dumb character always using the same combo).
The current run has the same amount of Brutalities, I believe, if not just one less. Also, Kabal had a few different combos used, instead of just the air energy ball spam.
It's most of the fun of the current run, except with less time wasted transforming and significantly more Kabal. Everything could use more Kabal - most badass fighting game character ever. Could use a little less Brutalities, but that's about it.
Hyper Fighting really makes it stand out, though. Makes it all the more fast-paced.
I don't get it. So you either say that this route isn't faster (which is pretty much true), or that speed > entertainment is false (well, this is a speedrun, so it's pretty much true as well that speed > entertainment) or that the Yammark fight here is less entertaining than SDC, even though you post below that you're sick of seeing Zero SDC all the time. And neither make sense with the "specific examples" thing you post after that.
So what are you trying to say?
What I'm saying is that in some cases movie speed is not superior to entertainment. I was referring to "going to Mijinion's stage twice, but this is the fastest way to beat the game". In this particular case, it's acceptable, but in other cases, pure speed has proven to be bad to watch.
Also, disregard the SDC thing. Didn't see it wasn't used in the one fight. My brain was working at half-capacity when I posted that. Still stand by it being annoying most of the time, though. :P Don't get me wrong - I like to see bosses absolutely destroyed. I just prefer every boss' absolute destruction to be personalized.
sameasusual wrote:
Well, System Error, there are people who have undertaken such a monumental task.
HideOfBeast has a minimalist X Only run on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/HideofBeast#g/c/9A7DD8572486C671
Oh, and it's also on Xtreme difficulty and a No Damage*** run. And non-TASed.
***Not taking damage is slightly bent, as the acid rain segments in Rainy Turtloid and Gate Lab 2 are unavoidable as X. (Zero gets a trash compacter segment instead, but this is X only, so yeah.)
HideOfBeast also did similar runs for X4 and X5. (X Only, No Damage, Final Destination)
Sounded promising, up until I heard him flapping his gums. :/ Sue me - I have an irrational dislike for people talking in gaming videos. Unless they're leaking charisma through the pores, which, unfortunately, most do not. EDIT: Oops, didn't see there was a commentaryless version at first. Whatever the case, I'd still love to see it in TAS format.
I'd like to see such a run too. However, to get rid of the unnecessary collecting, I'd say aim to get the game into a state where it is possible to complete the Excalibur II Perfect Game. So like, you don't need to buy 99 Potions during the run (you know, short of it being a time-saver), since you would be able to buy them afterwards.
Wren pretty much hit the nail on the head - this alone could give the run a huge edge over any other RPG TAS.
Skeletal priority list?
#1: Obtain all miss-able items
#2: Open enough treasure chests to allow for the S Medal or Master Treasure Hunter or whatever it's called again
#3: Remain at the lowest possible level to allow stat maxing (which path? alternatively do Base Stats to cut this out)
#4: Speed
Yeah, i aswell dislike going to Mijinion's stage twice, but this is the fastest way to beat the game, and speed > entertainment, and idk, but i think that the Yammark fight looks more entertaining than SDC (have a long time seeing the same thing).
Not necessarily. I'd name some specific examples here but I'm too lazy.
Speaking of entertainment, am I the only madman who wants to see a no damage run of X6? Considering how hard it is to not take damage from what I've heard, it could turn out really nice. Also, preferably without using Zero, because honestly, his method of destroying bosses just got old the third time I saw it. :/ Probably why I don't enjoy the PSX MMX videos as much as the SNES ones.
Okay, fair enough, so then that section could really use an overhaul I suppose. It just seems so...ghetto, for lack of a better term. :/ Plus it's rather obscure. Why not like, make that section more "official" or something, if it's gotten enough support?
It's definitely amusing. But the things about the relative repetitiveness after a while do apply. I'd say this one could be a game-changer. We might need something to handle these situations where it's not good enough to be published, but not bad enough to be cast mercilessly into the pit of grues without a light source (if it's really split like this, that's a sign it should be handled as such).
Mekanos' done, but looks like this run will be on hold for some time, a new glitch on Donkey Kong Country 2
may force a redo on the 102% run, not confirmed yet, but it's possible, I'm still stuck on Lakeside Limbo anyway...
Personally, I'd much rather have a long overdue new run than a new version of an old run.
There can be no powerup runs and pacifist runs for Contra, then I don't see why we shouldn't be able to have a similar movie for Castlevania as well. :)
The difference is that Contra wasn't designed to be allow a pacifist run. It completely changes the gameplay and adds to the TAS as the author takes interesting measures to avoid killing foes. Taking no damage in Castlevania takes out all the fun damage boosts and boss murdering glitches. That detracts from the TAS and makes it rather dull. The only interesting bits were manipulating potions and rosaries.
A run doesn't need damage boosts, like I just said. MMX6 is another run that could be interesting without damage, especially considering how hard it is not to be damaged in that game to begin with. I mean, sure, in any game with damage abuse, you got skips of areas, but to some, it's arguably more boring to see damage being used to bypass enemies rather than annihilating or ninjaing by things in the way. ;)
And since we're on the subject of being able to apply the same logic to other things as well, if you want to talk about dull TASes, how about something like the Earthbound run? It's just a bunch of crazy glitches and walking around in black spaces. Nice "wow" factor, but no lasting charm IMO. What defines interesting? What the majority thinks? What the target audience thinks? What the mainstream thinks? What the people who matter think? I can't really answer that question, but I do know that no one group is completely right, nor is one group completely wrong.
Derakon wrote:
I bet if this run was just "no subweapons" people would be decrying it for being too similar to the published run, actually. Some days you just can't win.
Unfortunately true. :( There's no pleasing some people, I suppose.
(side note: the rules on which version to use claims that "superior music" would be reason enough for a version change; I assume superior SFX should count as well)
I like the way you think, and I also like the concept of an X run. Seeing every boss destroyed in virtually the same way (throughout the whole XPSX series, even) with Zero just doesn't appeal to me personally. :P Looking forward to seeing it in...uhh...well, whenever it happens you can be sure I'll party hard
There can be no powerup runs and pacifist runs for Contra, then I don't see why we shouldn't be able to have a similar movie for Castlevania as well. :) TASes don't always have to be about destroying games by abusing every trick to its fullest advantage and in what seems to be the main complaint here, being hit every single solitary time it'd save time, after all. Dodging stuff in amusing or fancy ways is also entertaining, after all, and suboptimal character stuff is also permitted (SMB2, Castlevania 3). Yeah, watching the same old cross or holy water rip things apart is entertaining, but seeing how much can be done with the oft-ignored main weapon is good enough to get a "yes" out of me.
With that being said, I bet that if the damage boosts were included and it was just no subweapons, just about everyone would be singing praises for this run. ;)
You might think that the only reason to do a TAS of this text adventure would be for the whole grue thing. And yeah, that is half of the reason why I suggest it. >_> But besides that, the game also has some interesting bugs that might make a playaround viable. A long while back, there used to be this site that listed bugs in old Infocom games. I managed to save that site before the host went down, though.
1. Many commands which produce strange output in later versions, give no response at all in Version 2, and the game simply goes on to the next turn. For example, the commands READ MAILBOX, and EAT ME give no response at all in Version 2, but in the next version (Version 5), you get "How can I read a mailbox?" and "I don't think that the you would agree with you." -- Alan Franzman
2. THE SLIDE BUG: In Version 2, when you drop items down the slide, the game first tells you that it's done, then tells you it can't be done, and then removes the item from the game entirely. For example: EXAMINE ""
>DROP TRIDENT IN SLIDE
"The crystal trident falls through the slide and is gone."
"I can't do that."
The trident is now out of the game. -- Alan Franzman
3. The earliest releases of Zork I (Versions 2 and 5) can become very confused if you nest objects too deeply in your inventory, such as putting the lunch in the sack, then the sack in the coffin. You may get very spurious output from the INVENTORY command like "Such language in a high-class establishment like this!" messages, with other random junk interspersed in it. This can also lead to the object hierarchy getting screwed up, in such a way that an INVENTORY might claim that you are carrying a bunch of rooms around!
ADDITIONAL: Technically this bug is present in all versions of the game. In Versions 2 and 5 it occurs when three objects are nested (i.e. canary in egg in sack). In later versions it only occurs when 7 objects are nested, which is difficult but not impossible to create. Take the canary, egg, sack, buoy, coffin, and (inflated) boat to the Shaft Room, and issue the following commands: PUT EGG IN SACK. PUT CANARY IN EGG. PUT SACK IN BUOY. PUT BUOY IN COFFIN. PUT BOAT IN BASKET. PUT COFFIN IN BOAT. LOOK. (As everything can't be carried simultaneously, some TAKE and DROP commands may need to be interspersed here.) When you LOOK, a random phrase from somewhere else in the game may be mixed with the output. In the Solid Gold version, the phrase "up to your ankles" (from when the water is rising in the Maintenance Room) will be before the description of the canary. In other versions there are different effects, some random phrases, and some gibberish. -- Michael the Great
4. In Versions 2 and 5, commands such as GO DOOR or GO TREE can send players into random locations. -- New Zork Times
5. In Version 5, the command HIT MIRROR WITH SWORD will generate combat responses, such as "The mirror parries", or "The mirror dies in a cloud of sinister black fog." In Version 2, you miss the mirror and the game crashes with a Stack Overflow error. -- Graeme Cree
6. In Versions 2 and 5, the command GIVE AXE TO TROLL will generate a response like:
"The troll accepts your gift, and not having the most discriminating taste, eats it.
The troll, dismarmed, is cowering and begging for forgiveness in the gutteral language of the trolls."
(In Version 2, he "gleefully" eats it. Picky, picky.) Though the troll can no longer attack you, he still blocks the exits and parries, while continuing to beg for forgiveness. -- Graeme Cree
7. In Versions 2 and 5, if you give the troll to himself, he eats himself and disappears. He still bars you from leaving the room though, only now he can't be attacked. -- Graeme Cree
NOTE: In fact, as Ethan Dicks has pointed out, virtually anything can be given to the troll (or thief) in this version: your hands, your eyes, the eastern wall, a compass direction, even "ME". The troll will then eat them and you will be unable to interact with them for the rest of the game (although you can still go "east" if you give "east" to the troll). The thief of course will leave them lying around instead of eating them.
8. In Versions 2 and 5, if you give the troll to the thief, the thief puts the troll in his bag, but the troll still blocks the exits. If the thief is killed, the troll reappears. -- Graeme Cree
9. In all versions after Version 5, if you try to use a compass direction while in the boat, the game will (reasonably) tell you that you can't go that way in a magic boat. In Versions 2 and 5, it will tell you that you can't go that way in a tan label. -- Graeme Cree
10. In all versions after Version 5, when you reach the portion of the river where the buoy is, the description will tell you that the buoy is "(outside the magic boat)". Versions 2 and 5, tells you that the buoy is "(in the room)"! -- Graeme Cree
11. If you try to GET OUT OF THE BOAT while floating down the river, all versions of the game tell you that you realize "just in time" that such a course would be suicidal. In all versions before and after Version 5, the game prevents you from leaving the boat. In Version 5, it lets you leave and kills you, despite having told you that you had realized not to do it. -- Graeme Cree
12. THE FLOODGATES BUG: In version 5, if the nest is not taken at location Up a Tree, the room description eventually changes to a torrential flood of output, several screens long, containing a mishmash of fragments of room, noun, and action descriptions that you see whenever you enter the room (except in superbrief mode), or do a LOOK.
It isn't clear precisely what causes it, but it happens every time if you go down into the GUE, through the maze, grab the bag, come out through the Cyclops Room into the Living Room, and outside to the tree. It might be triggered by a certain point level, or something else.
If you try to TAKE the nest after the bug has triggered, the game will lock up. Taking the egg before or after has no effect. -- Graeme Cree
13. In Versions 2, 5 and 15, shaking an open container that isn't empty may crash the game. This works with the sack, but not the bottle. -- New Zork Times
14. In Versions 2, 5, 15, 23, 25, 26, and 28, you can bump your head on things such as the river by trying to ENTER them. -- New Zork Times
15. THE WIMPY PHANTOM THIEF BUG: You know, that thief is really tough in combat. Why not fight his phantom instead? He doesn't fight back.
In Versions 2, 5, 15, 23, 25, 26, 38, and 30, engage the thief in combat (outside of his lair). Wait until he robs you and leaves; you will see this message:
The other occupant just left, still carrying his large bag. You may not have noticed that he robbed you blind first.
At this point, continue to attack the thief, using the AGAIN command. You will continue to attack the no-longer-present thief, but he will not fight back, and eventually you can do enough damage to kill him.
A couple of points; this won't work if you attack the thief with the sword, since when he "robs you blind", he takes the sword as well as your treasures. You must use the axe or nasty-looking knife. Also this only works with the AGAIN command, (with AGAIN representing ATTACK THIEF WITH AXE, or something like that) not by attacking him directly. Thirdly, it may take several tries to get this to work, since the thief does not always rob you in the middle of a fight. Sometimes he stays and fights (and kills you).
Killing the phantom thief kills the real one as well, and you can now explore the game without interference from him, even when you find his lair. Sound great? Well, there is one slight hitch. Remember the things the thief took when he robbed you blind? He never had a chance to stow them in his lair, and they are nowhere to be found when you kill the phantom (his stiletto is left behind, but not his bag). This means any treasures that he took are out of the game, and the game may be unwinnable. Therefore, the only way to use this bug to your profit is to engage the thief in combat when you are carrying no treasures (except the sword, which he will take). -- Kevin (Piouhgd@aol.com)
16. In Versions 2, 5, 15, 23, 25, 26, 28, and 30, you can take the torch into the Gas Room without setting off an explosion, provided that it is inside the Raft or the Coffin (open or closed). -- Allen Garvin
17. In versions 5, 15, 23, 25, 26, 28, and 30, the single-line description of the torch and candles stays unchanged after they have been removed from their initial locations.
For example, put the torch into the gold coffin, close it, then open it again. You will see:
>OPEN COFFIN
The gold coffin opens.
Sitting on the pedestal is a flaming torch, made of ivory.
OR:
>OPEN COFFIN
The gold coffin opens.
On the two ends of the altar are burning candles.
In versions 75, 76, 88, and 52, this is fixed, and you get these responses:
>OPEN COFFIN
Opening the gold coffin reveals a torch.
>OPEN COFFIN
Opening the gold coffin reveals a pair of candles.
This doesn't seem to work in Version 2, if only because in that one, the coffin is so much smaller, and can't contain either the torch or candles. -- Graeme Cree
18. In Versions 2, 5, 15, 20, 23, 25, 26, 28, and 30 you can take the boat while already in it.
DROP the (inflated) boat in the living room. Then GET IN BOAT, PUT BOAT IN CASE, and then GET ALL FROM CASE. The game will respond:
magic boat: Taken.
nail: It's not in that!
At this point you will be both occupying and carrying the boat. A LOOK command (and attempting to move) will tell you that you are in the boat, but it will not show up in an INVENTORY command. Once you get out of the boat, it will be placed in your inventory.
This assumes that you are playing the game from the original Infocom interpreter. Frotz 2.32 will put up with none of this nonsense, and will crash the game when you try to GET ALL FROM CASE.
In versions 75, 76, 88, and 52 this does not work, because you are prohibited from PUTting things unless you TAKE them first. But the lack of such a prohibition in earlier versions may be responsible for numerous bugs. For example in versions 30 and earlier, you can take the raft to the Treasure Room, and PUT CHALICE IN RAFT without first defeating the Thief in combat. -- Allen Garvin
19. THE PICKUP BUG: In games like Planetfall and Enchanter, people have reported situations where one could exceed their normal weight limits, and carry something that they could not pick up themself, simply by having someone hand it to them. I have never regarded these as bugs, reasoning that if you're holding an armload of equipment it's easier to take something that someone gives you than bending over and picking it up.
I can't defend this bug, though. In all versions up to Version 30 (except perhaps Version 2 again, where the containers are so much smaller), you can pick up items that you normally couldn't, simply by putting them into something else that you're already carrying.
For example, try this: 1) Put the bell and axe (nothing else) into the gold coffin, and leave it open. 2) Have only the lunch, garlic and coffin (loaded with bell and axe) in your inventory, with the empty sack at your feet. If you then try to PICK UP SACK you will be told "Your load is too heavy.", but if you PUT SACK IN COFFIN it works, and you're told "Done."
You can signifigantly exceed your weight limits this way if you pick up items by putting them in the coffin and then take them out of the coffin to make room for new items, but there are limits. Eventually things will start slipping from your fingers and falling to the ground when you try to take them out of the coffin.
In versions 75 and later, you cannot put something into something else unless you already have it in your inventory when you issue the command. --Fredrik Ekman
20. THE PHANTOM BOAT: In Versions 2, 5, 15, 20, 23, 25, 26, 28, 30, 75 and 76, you may continue to occupy the boat after you've destroyed it.
Inflate the boat, and drop it. GET IN BOAT, then CUT BOAT WITH SWORD. The game will reply: "Your skillful swordsmanship slices the magic boat into innumerable slivers which evaporate instantaneously."
However, you will still be considered to be in the boat for all locational purposes, save that you will not be able to refer to it. If you were in the water when you destroyed the boat, you will still be afloat. Unfortunately, in most versions you will not be able to get out of the boat, (such as by saying DISEMBARK BOAT) not being able to refer to it, nor will you be able to give it directional commands (if you are in the river), which means that you are trapped, and the game is unwinnable.
In versions 75 and 76, you will at least be able to escape the phantom boat by typing STAND, a command that exits the boat without directly referring to it. Earlier versions do not know this word.
The same thing will happen if, instead of destroying the boat, you give it to the thief while inside it, and he leaves with it. -- Allen Garvin
21. If you knock the thief unconscious and try to take his stiletto, the game says that it is "white hot," and that you drop it -- obviously some sort of protective magic. However, in Versions 2, 5, 15, 23, 25, 26, 28, 30, and 75, if you try to PUT STILETTO IN SACK (for example) it will let you, but when the thief wakes up, he continues to attack you with the stiletto, even if you have moved it to a different room! In later versions, it refuses to let you put it in the sack at all, saying that you don't have the stiletto. -- B.J. Parker
22. BIRTHDAY CANDLES BUG: In all versions except the Solid Gold (and Mini-Zork), Zork 1 apparently uses trick relighting candles.
The first time you go to the Temple, type BLOW OUT CANDLES, *without* taking them, then type LOOK. The description will say "On the two ends of the altar are burning candles.", but if you examine them, it will say that they are out. If you try to light them, you will be told "The candles are lit," instead of "already lit" which is what it says when they are burning. If you do an INVENTORY command, the candles will not say "(providing light)".
However, the room description is correct, and all of the other indicators are wrong. The candles *are* still lit and will quickly become too small to use unless you put them out for real, by taking them and either dropping them, or lighting and blowing them out again.
The only reliable way to blow out the candles is to hold them while you do it. This bug drove me, well, buggy, until I tracked it down, trying to figure out why my candles were being destroyed even though I knew I had blown them out. -- Graeme Cree
23. Here's a variation on the Starcross disk bug. If the sack and the bottle are both empty, it's possible to put the sack in the bottle, then put the bottle in the sack, causing both to vanish. This exists in all versions except the Solid Gold, Mini-Zork, and Version 2 (because the bottle is too small to hold the sack in that one). -- New Zork Times
24. BOTTLE BUG: In all versions except the Solid Gold and MiniZork, you can POUR WATER regardless of whether the bottle is open or closed. -- Graeme Cree
25. TRAPDOOR BUG: In versions 75, 76 and 88, there is a way to open the trapdoor from the inside. At the beginning of the game, enter the following commands: N. E. OPEN WINDOW. W. W. TAKE LAMP. MOVE RUG. LIGHT. OPEN TRAPDOOR. D. N. G.
When you enter the G (or AGAIN) command, you will be told "The trap door opens." You can then return to the Living Room, and the trapdoor will not be barred behind you when you descend to the Cellar later.
The order of the commands matters. If you reverse the order of LIGHT, and OPEN TRAPDOOR, then you will be told "It is already on" when you type AGAIN. For some reason the AGAIN command thinks you are referring to the lamp.
It isn't clear if this is a bug or a playtesting device that Infocom forgot to remove. -- Allen Garvin
NOTE: Matthew Russotto suggests that this bug is a combination of another bug wherein AGAIN did not check to see if the object referred to was still present, and a deliberate change that made AGAIN ignore directional commands. The Phantom Thief Bug was another manifestation of this, but that bug was patched separately, rather than fixing the underlying problem. Therefore, AGAIN in this case refers to your opening of the trapdoor three moves ago, because all commands in between have been directional.
He points out that similar tricks can be used to disarm the troll, and to attack him when he is not present (a la, the Phantom Thief Bug).
From the Troll Room, the commands TAKE AXE, S, AGAIN, will let you take the axe while you are in the cellar, even though it will be invisible to LOOK and INVENTORY commands.
Also from the Troll Room, the commands, ATTACK TROLL WITH SWORD, S, AGAIN, gives you the Phantom Troll Effect (similar to the Phantom Thief), allowing you to attack the Troll while he isn't present, and can't fight back.
26. Another container bug, but this one is in all versions, even the Solid Gold edition (Except for Version 2 with its notoriously small containers again). If you put the (inflated) raft in the coffin, then the coffin in the raft, both will disappear. This does not work the other way around, however. If you put the coffin in the raft first, then the raft in the coffin, you get a message saying that there is no room. In Mini-Zork, this bug not only appears, but the game locks up to boot (no pun intended). -- Graeme Cree
27. THE RAFT OF HOLDING: When you put objects in the raft and then deflate it, they effectively cease to exist, allowing you to carry as much weight and as many objects as the raft will hold (it won't hold the gold coffin, unfortunately, and of course sharp objects are out). This is because the game handles the pile of plastic and the raft as two separate objects, and there's no provision for handling any objects inside the raft when the switch is made. -- Stu Galley in The New Zork Times
28. TEETH OVERBOARD: All versions of the game (except Mini-Zork) have an odd problem synonyming the word overboard (which really shouldn't be a noun at all, should it?). In versions 2-28, overboard is a synonym for object 212, in version 30 object189, and in versions 75 onward as teeth (!), as can be seen by typing EXAMINE OVERBOARD on the first turn of the game. -- Gunther Schmidl
There could be more to find on other sites or by experimentation. If we're speaking strictly speed, then bug 4 may be able to get us to the end without doing much, but of course, that wouldn't be interesting. It'd be cool if a glitchy playthrough could be made using all the bugs on the list.
The only problem will come in the form of actually finding an old enough version to exploit most of them.
Probably voting no here.
There are just too many spots that look like they could've been faster. For example, in the big pit areas in Level 1 and Level 4, you don't need to jump around as you did - you can simply use the SS Jump from the speedrun to hop out from inside them while still heading forward. It can also probably be abused in other places. You also don't use the run-jump cancel in there for that matter (I definitely noticed Level 15 being slightly slower; if not only slightly faster for the glitch he had)
Also, a different level order that allows for invincibility mask abuse could also be implemented. The worst case of not doing this was Level 12 - they're everywhere there, and yet you did all you could to make sure you never got any.
And in some of the levels, I noticed you didn't jump around crushers when possible, even when it could've saved time. Any reason behind that?
I don't really get why everyone seems to want the scripted encode...like I said, it's horrible, and instead of just smoothly jumping between the points, it ends up as some wacky loading or wait screen with irritating, out-of-place choppy "music". Even the music and flash removal isn't too much to justify it. And regardless, I totally agree with the "tolerable only with cuts = no" version.
Even without that, like I said, this movie knows its goals, and yet, it doesn't know them. There's still a lot of level skipped that could've been showed off in instead ("to better showcase the abilities of Super Sonic and Hyper Sonic"), and it overall felt like an old version of the movie, just with emeralds and a couple new tricks related to them added.
The hook is there, but something still felt missing from this. It was probably related to the no horozontal underflow - not doing that's okay, yeah, cool, but doing all the other zip glitches like vertical screen wrapping just seems hypocritical. It's like a solution that aims to please both sides (those who want to see all, and those who want to see nothing), but really just pisses both off. Alongside annoying blue sphere segments, of course (don't give me that script garbage, because that's exactly what it is - the music changing thing is nice, but the way the skipping over was done is somehow more annoying than the actual thing itself. That's another issue, though...
There are a few glitches that make it okay, such as the glitchy snowboard riding, but honestly, most of the time it felt like a horribly old and rotting house that had a few renovations done without fixing the whole thing up.